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A few interesting Bible facts...


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117 replies to this topic

#106    kmt_sesh

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:42 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 14 January 2013 - 03:02 AM, said:

Dissociative identity disorder? :w00t:

cormac

Akhenoses?

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#107    cormac mac airt

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:46 AM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 14 January 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

Akhenoses?

See there, even sounds like a disease.  :D

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#108    TheSearcher

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:35 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 13 January 2013 - 12:53 AM, said:

Proof -Jesus son of Joseph.


http://en.wikipedia....t_Tomb_of_Jesus

Two things against that. First of all from WIKI itself :

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The neutrality of this article is disputed. Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (December 2007)

This means that the article is biased at best, or the subject is less than reputable.

Second :
Early Christianity scholar R. Joseph Hoffmann, says that the film "is all about bad assumptions," beginning with the assumption that the boxes contain Jesus of Nazareth and his family. From his view as a historian specializing in the social history of earliest Christianity, he found it "amazing how evidence falls into place when you begin with the conclusion—and a hammer." (ref : "Who is Entombed in the 'Jesus Tomb'?" U.S. News, March 12, 2007, p. 34-35)


View Postkmt_sesh, on 13 January 2013 - 01:21 AM, said:

That ossuary has already been established as at least partly a hoax. A portion of the inscription is fraudulent.

The Wiki article references a Discovery Channel special produced by a filmmaker named Simcha Jacobovici. I remember watching it and found it interesting but ultimately implausible. Biblical scholars who've commented on the TV special agree. Jacobovici produces some flashy specials but they're extremely short on reliable historicity. His work is primarily idle speculation set to special effects. Remember Exodus Decoded? It was comically inept.

and this is in fact yet another reason this piece of film should go with fiction instead of documentary.

Edited by TheSearcher, 14 January 2013 - 09:36 AM.

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#109    docyabut2

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:47 AM




#110    docyabut2

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:58 AM

I do consider the comparisons , the fact that there was a real plague at Amarna and that Akhenten`d body has not really been found. :) As far as the Bible many do not, but I take the writings as history .

Edited by docyabut2, 14 January 2013 - 12:37 PM.


#111    TheSearcher

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:10 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 14 January 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

I do consider the comparisons , the fact that there was a real plague at Amarna and that Akhenten`d body has not really been found. :) As far as the Bible many do not, but I take the writings as history .

Even if Akhenaten and Moses, could not possibly ever have been the same person and nothing akin to the Hebrews even existed at the time of Akhenaten, like Kmt says? These are historical facts, nobody pulled this out of thin air.

But no, you still consider the bible history. Am I understanding correctly?

Edited by TheSearcher, 14 January 2013 - 02:11 PM.

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#112    kmt_sesh

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:04 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 14 January 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

I do consider the comparisons , the fact that there was a real plague at Amarna and that Akhenten`d body has not really been found. :) As far as the Bible many do not, but I take the writings as history .

Egypt experienced plague events throughout its entire history. The event theorized to have occurred before and during the Amarna Period was just one of a great many. Paleopathologists posit that the various diseases we lump under the umbrella term "plague" entered the Nile Valley when the first humans did—meaning tens of thousands of years ago.

More than likely Akhenaten's body was deliberately destroyed in the years following the collapse of his reign and the Aten religion. He was henceforth referred to in the royal records as "the criminal," so as a heretic (in their minds) he was a reviled person meant to have been forgotten. In fact, in every likelihood, when the Hebrews were just starting to emerge upon the historical stage over 120 years later, they would've had no idea who this Egyptian king called Akhenaten was. Nor would most Egyptians by that time, for that matter.

In any case there is a tomb for Akhenaten in the arid wadis to the east of where the city had been built. His sarcophagus was there, found smashed to pieces by modern times. There was a place of burial for him, therefore, and nothing about this tomb speaks of Moses nor is it in any way akin to the earliest burial practices of the Hebrews.

As I said earlier, we know that Akhenaten was the son of Amunhotep III, one of Egypt's greatest pharaohs (hence his sobriquet "the Magnificent"). We further know that Akhenaten was borne as Amunhotep (IV) and only later changed his name. We have solid attestations for his mother, Queen Tiye, as well as for numerous brothers and sisters. We have solid attestations for the wives of Akhenaten as well as for his six daughters. We have a fairly comprehensive understanding of the Atenist religion Akhenaten fostered, from its rituals to its architecture (temples and shrines)—none of this is similar to even the oldest versions of the Hebrew religion.

Does any of the above even slightly resemble the known traits of Moses? No, not at all. Akhenaten fits firmly into a well-established and rather stoutly understood historical framework.

Moses exists only in the Old Testament. There is simply no extrabiblical evidence that he even existed. Overall the Bible cannot be regarded as a work of history. Not only do modern reputable historians understand this, but the original scribes who penned the books of the Bible understood this. "History" as we understand the word was not regarded the same in ancient times. No real historical inquiries in written form even existed until the middle of the fifth century BCE, and that was from the Greek world.

And once again, the Hebrews did not yet exist in Akhenaten's time. That alone sinks any attempt at forming connections.

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#113    docyabut2

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:14 PM

Did the Bubonic Plague Originate in Egypt?


http://voices.yahoo....ypt-524969.html


#114    questionmark

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:19 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 14 January 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

Did the Bubonic Plague Originate in Egypt?


http://voices.yahoo....ypt-524969.html

No, at least as far as we can trace it. It originated somewhere in Mongolia. In fact the only mammal we know ( a rodent subspecies) that is immune is from there.

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#115    docyabut2

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:55 AM

An epidemic at Amarna


http://amarnalover.w...emic-at-amarna/


Moses spoke of a plague:)

Edited by docyabut2, 15 January 2013 - 05:04 AM.


#116    questionmark

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:56 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 15 January 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

An epidemic at Amarna


http://amarnalover.w...emic-at-amarna/


Moses spoke of a plague:)

Where it is highly doubtful that Mr. Moses said anything, as we cannot find any traces of him until the 7th century BCE, and then only in the Torah.. Even if he existed,any pandemic would have been called a plague at the time.

Edited by questionmark, 15 January 2013 - 11:12 AM.

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#117    TheSearcher

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 11:46 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 15 January 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

An epidemic at Amarna

http://amarnalover.w...emic-at-amarna/

Moses spoke of a plague:)

The bible spoke about many plagues. This does by no means mean that it was the same nor that Akhenaton is Moses. BEsides, like other posters said before, to the ancient world a plague or pestilence was any disease which reached epidemic proportion and thus could refer to any disease.

Having said this I went to the link and checked it out. I saw the argument used to say that there was a plague in Amarna. There are a few things that aren't entirely presented in the correct way and that kinda renders the whole thing suspicious.

Allthough it's not incorrect that there was a plague, the reports in the Amarna letters tell of a plague, so widespread that there were victims recorded from Cyprus in the west to Babylonia in the East. There has even been speculation that a proliferation of statues in Egypt, dedicated to the Goddess of Strife, Sekhmet, which were erected during the later years of Amunhotep III’s reign, may indicate that Egypt itself was affected with cases of the plague.

So presenting the plague or disease in question as only localised in Egypt and more precisely in Amarna, is very misleading and even wrong.

The fact that Mursulli II, son of King Suppiluliumas of Hatti, refers to the plague as a consequence of war with the Egyptians, stands on it's own. Egypt also used a certain amount of mercenaries from a multitude of provenances, the plague could have come from them as easily as from the Egyptians proper. It's open to discussion.

However none of it makes a compelling case for Moses in any way.

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#118    Kozaky

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:45 AM

Ah.. Whether or not you actually believe in Christianity, you can't deny that the bible is a good read. LOL. :tu:





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