Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * - - - 1 votes

Israel pushes plans for 3000 new settlements


  • Please log in to reply
254 replies to this topic

#91    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,088 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:42 PM

View Postpallidin, on 06 December 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

Again, I do not dispute this with respect to the need of, say, Gaza, to expand.
After all, having more children requires, at some point, more housing and the land to support that housing, for example.
That's natural and expected. No problem with that. And the UN and Israel needs to recognize this.

My concern is the intention to completely destroy Israel, and occupy THEIR land, with no Israeli living on the planet earth.
That's my concern..
Whilstever Israel offers no meaningful prospect of peace there is no incentive for the Palestinians to offer meaningful compromises.
The exact same situation persisted in Northern Ireland for about 40yrs and was only resolved when Britain forced the dominant Unionist faction to offer equal rights to the Loyalists. Once they were forced to offer real compromises the negotiated settlement took place and has held for over a decade. The Loyalists still nominally espouse their aim to achieve a united Ireland, but to all intents and purposes that is a completely dead position in reality. Sein Fein are now equal partners in Government and are getting on with governing the country in the best way possible.

The same could happen in Israel and is exactly the reason why the Israelis will systematically torpedo any real chance of peace with the Palestinians.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#92    pallidin

pallidin

    Majestic 12 Operative

  • Member
  • 6,474 posts
  • Joined:09 Dec 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Somewhere south of the North Pole

  • "When life gets you down... swim with a dolphin"

Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:46 PM

Do you feel that Israel should be completely eliminated?


#93    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,088 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:15 PM

View Postpallidin, on 06 December 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

Do you feel that Israel should be completely eliminated?
No.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#94    WHO U KIDDIN

WHO U KIDDIN

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 251 posts
  • Joined:20 Mar 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC

  • To deny another man's humanity is to deny your own.

Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:33 PM

View Postpallidin, on 06 December 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

Do you feel that Israel should be completely eliminated?

I don't think any of the supporters of the Palestinians on these forums is advocating a new final solution for this conflict.

I believe most here have accepted that Israel is here to stay even the Muslim Arabs have come to reality about this fact, what we are all advocating is a fair and equitable solution for all, and not for just one group's needs and demands over the others.


#95    and then

and then

    Abyssus Abyssum Invocat

  • Member
  • 13,459 posts
  • Joined:15 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land's End

  • Because what came before never seems enough...

Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:29 PM

View PostWHO U KIDDIN, on 06 December 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

I don't think any of the supporters of the Palestinians on these forums is advocating a new final solution for this conflict.

I believe most here have accepted that Israel is here to stay even the Muslim Arabs have come to reality about this fact, what we are all advocating is a fair and equitable solution for all, and not for just one group's needs and demands over the others.
What evidence do you have for this statement?  They certainly have made no such statements in their mosques or schools.  Hamas says just the opposite at every public opportunity.  This is not incitement on my part - this is just fact.  65 years ago the Palestinians refused to accept a Jewish State in Palestine and they have never changed course until this day.  As to advocating a final solution, that can be done by ignoring the realities.  Most here simply do not accept that Israel's existence is threatened.  But if any one of her neighboring Arab nations had the same military capabilities Israel would have been destroyed long ago.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#96    WHO U KIDDIN

WHO U KIDDIN

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 251 posts
  • Joined:20 Mar 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC

  • To deny another man's humanity is to deny your own.

Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:05 AM

View Postand then, on 06 December 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

What evidence do you have for this statement?  They certainly have made no such statements in their mosques or schools.  Hamas says just the opposite at every public opportunity.  This is not incitement on my part - this is just fact.  65 years ago the Palestinians refused to accept a Jewish State in Palestine and they have never changed course until this day.  As to advocating a final solution, that can be done by ignoring the realities.  Most here simply do not accept that Israel's existence is threatened.  But if any one of her neighboring Arab nations had the same military capabilities Israel would have been destroyed long ago.

Here's a fact for you Then straight from Haaretz:

Poll: Most Palestinians want peace with Israel

Fafo poll conducted in West Bank and Gaza finds that 89% Palestinians support PA legislative elections this year, 84 % believe Fatah will win....

Fafo, a Norwegian based international multidisciplinary research foundation, found that 73 percent of Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza were in favor of peace negotiations with Israel, but stressed that a settlement freeze should be a precondition to talks.

Read more: http://www.haaretz.c...israel-1.297196

Edited by WHO U KIDDIN, 07 December 2012 - 12:06 AM.


#97    and then

and then

    Abyssus Abyssum Invocat

  • Member
  • 13,459 posts
  • Joined:15 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land's End

  • Because what came before never seems enough...

Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:40 AM

View PostWHO U KIDDIN, on 07 December 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

Here's a fact for you Then straight from Haaretz:

Poll: Most Palestinians want peace with Israel

Fafo poll conducted in West Bank and Gaza finds that 89% Palestinians support PA legislative elections this year, 84 % believe Fatah will win....

Fafo, a Norwegian based international multidisciplinary research foundation, found that 73 percent of Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza were in favor of peace negotiations with Israel, but stressed that a settlement freeze should be a precondition to talks.

Read more: http://www.haaretz.c...israel-1.297196
Considering that the one thing Haaretz and Norway have in common is a hatred of Israel I think to take anything from them with a grain of salt BUT,  if they are true then I wonder why negotiations did not begin during the 10 month hiatus that Obama insisted on when he first took office?  Abbas refused to sit down with Netanyahu even after the construction was suspended for 10 months....  I'm all for a suspension of settlements for a year.  It will prove beyond any doubt  (to a non-biased person) that the Palestinians are the obstructionists here.  Israel could offer a sweetheart deal and it would cause mass protests in the WB and Gaza by those who don't want anything less than ALL THE LAND and Israel gone.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#98    ExpandMyMind

ExpandMyMind

    Telekinetic

  • Closed
  • 6,628 posts
  • Joined:23 Jan 2009

Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:20 PM

View PostHartmut, on 04 December 2012 - 04:42 AM, said:

What Israel and Palestine should paste on their foreheads:

AN EYE FOR AN EYE MAKES EVERYONE BLIND !

(Albert Einstein)

This is a Gandhi quote, not an Einstein one.


#99    odas

odas

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,747 posts
  • Joined:13 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:41 PM

View Postand then, on 05 December 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

If one of the States was accepted to be a homeland for the Jews then I agree.  But to give Palestinians Gaza, the WB and East Jerusalem AND give refugees the right of return into Israel would be the same as booting every Jew from the region.  Abbas was nearly lynched a few weeks ago when he mentioned obliquely, a solution that denied right of return.  It will take real leadership and possibly years of reshaping the values of Palestinians and Jews before the hard choices could be made and kept.
So you mean simmilar to how Israel came to exictence by giving them palestinian land, by giving every jew in the world the right to settle there and booting out palestinians?


#100    and then

and then

    Abyssus Abyssum Invocat

  • Member
  • 13,459 posts
  • Joined:15 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land's End

  • Because what came before never seems enough...

Posted 10 December 2012 - 01:34 AM

View Postodas, on 09 December 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

So you mean simmilar to how Israel came to exictence by giving them palestinian land, by giving every jew in the world the right to settle there and booting out palestinians?
Odas you are speaking about fairness and I am speaking about reality.  Would you rather see ongoing violence that eventually might cause a world war or see Israel left with the land it was given?  Because I think THAT is the reality we all face.  To continue to bemoan the unfairness of the plight of one small group of people over another is pointless.  UNLESS..... fairness is worth WWIII.  If that is your premise then I say I admire your ethics but don't think much of your rationality.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#101    odas

odas

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,747 posts
  • Joined:13 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:35 AM

In reality unfairness is what keeps wars going not only in ME, not only now but in the past and future. We have not learned that there is no lasting peace without fairness. Unfair treatment of Germany after wwl gave us Adolf. Unfair tratment and blindness, even ignorancy, gave us wwll. Unfair blokade of weapons to bosnia gave us Srebrenica...and so on and on...if its not fair it aint right, it will not vanish it will come back to kick our ars.


#102    Hartmut

Hartmut

    -

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 185 posts
  • Joined:21 Feb 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Without artists, the worlds would be,
    like a world without flowers and butterflies.

Posted 10 December 2012 - 04:32 AM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 09 December 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

This is a Gandhi quote, not an Einstein one.
Well, since you are in the nitpicking mode....
The quote “An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind” is frequently attributed to M. K. Gandhi. The Gandhi Institute for Nonviolence states
that the Gandhi family believes it is an authentic Gandhi quotation, but no example of its use by the Indian leader has ever been discovered.
In fact the quote, in its various forms,  has been attributed to various people going back to Biblical times.
So, rather than nitpicking on irrelevant points you should be concentrating on the sad fact that two
people are  killing each other.


#103    and then

and then

    Abyssus Abyssum Invocat

  • Member
  • 13,459 posts
  • Joined:15 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land's End

  • Because what came before never seems enough...

Posted 10 December 2012 - 04:47 AM

View Postodas, on 10 December 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

In reality unfairness is what keeps wars going not only in ME, not only now but in the past and future. We have not learned that there is no lasting peace without fairness. Unfair treatment of Germany after wwl gave us Adolf. Unfair tratment and blindness, even ignorancy, gave us wwll. Unfair blokade of weapons to bosnia gave us Srebrenica...and so on and on...if its not fair it aint right, it will not vanish it will come back to kick our ars.
I totally agree that a lack of fairness and justice only rankles and causes future problems.  But the problem is in who decides what is fair.  It was partially an attempt (IMO) to render fairness and mercy to the Holocaust survivors that this land was set aside as it was.  The world had been at war and boundaries were being changed so the timing was ripe for making adjustments for the sake of the innocents.  Had the Arab inhabitants of the portion of Palestine that was partitioned to Israel been willing to compromise and their brethren in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt been willing to welcome them in there would be no conflict today.  But the enmity between Arab and Jew is ancient and no attempt was ever made to bridge the gaps and find compromise.  Unless some external force is enabled in the future to force a peace on the region then the only hope for a cessation of violence long term is for one side to win a clear victory.  This family feud is a microcosm of all the conflicts in the world.  I think it's being played out to teach us all a lesson.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#104    WHO U KIDDIN

WHO U KIDDIN

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 251 posts
  • Joined:20 Mar 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC

  • To deny another man's humanity is to deny your own.

Posted 10 December 2012 - 01:34 PM

View Postand then, on 10 December 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

Odas you are speaking about fairness and I am speaking about reality.  Would you rather see ongoing violence that eventually might cause a world war or see Israel left with the land it was given?  Because I think THAT is the reality we all face.  To continue to bemoan the unfairness of the plight of one small group of people over another is pointless.  UNLESS..... fairness is worth WWIII.  If that is your premise then I say I admire your ethics but don't think much of your rationality.

"To continue to bemoan the unfairness of the plight of one small group over another is pointless. Unless…fairness is worth WWIII.”

But of course Resistance is futile!

According to your divinely inspired irrational line of thought the world should continue to be unfair to the Palestinian plight and perhaps offer them up as humanity’s ‘global sacrificial lambs’ so that the Zionist overlords will be please with mankind and we all can avoid WWIII and live in peace.

What happen did you have a sudden change of heart Then?  Doesn’t WWIII have to start so you can get ‘rapture’ by your overlord and fulfill its Luciferian prophecies?

Then your twisted racist logic is the same kind of reasoning that the Nazis used as they lead the Jews, Gypsies, political dissenters and disabled of Europe to the death camps during WWII. In your view the Palestinians are not human, they are all Muslim monsters, murderers, scoundrels and curs out to destroy and drive the god loving Jews out of Israel. Anything less then the holy dream of a Greater Israel is unacceptable in your virtual reality.

This Hatfield-McCoy attitude that people like you, the Zionists and Meshal’s Hamas espouse only serves to continue the never-ending bloodshed that engulfs the region. What’s really absurd is how you all claim to do it in the name of your gods, as commanded by your holy books.

If a truly honest brokered political solution is unacceptable to all the extremists in this mess then the fate of millions is truly in the hands of the lunatics. If the voices of moderation and reason allows the forces of extremism to overwhelm it then humanity is finished.


#105    Yamato

Yamato

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,412 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 10 December 2012 - 04:18 PM

This revolting announcement by the regime in Israel is just more punishment for innocent Palestinians for their bureaucrats "unilaterally going to the UN", which is the most multilateral action one can take.   Illegal, immoral, and completely FoS.   Nothing new here.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users