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The reality of the UK education system


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#121    Insaniac

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 01:01 AM

View PostSetton, on 28 April 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

I agree that fear is present as a result of bullying. But that's a very different to 'The UK education system is based on fear'. Especially given that these are the reasons given by Pantodragon for this fear:


- children given responsibility
- exams
- lack of control
- health and safety
- technology

Nothing about bullying there...

Hence "Although I may be experiencing it from a different perspective."

However, I agree with two of her other points. I think mostly being given responsibility as a kid and lack of control. School shouldn't be something to be fearful about in any way, shape or form anyhow.

"He is wise in heart and mighty in strength. Who has hardened their heart against Him, and succeeded"? ~ Job 9:4

#122    pantodragon

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 04:16 PM

View PostSetton, on 28 April 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

I agree that fear is present as a result of bullying. But that's a very different to 'The UK education system is based on fear'. Especially given that these are the reasons given by Pantodragon for this fear:


- children given responsibility
- exams
- lack of control
- health and safety
- technology

Nothing about bullying there...

Did IQs suddenly drop since my last visit to the forum?  But then, they're at rock bottom anyway, so how much lower can they get?!!!!   There's EVERYTHING about bullying here.  Just because I haven't used the word................ Well, scientists, like artists, have always considered themselves above having to actually express themselves in simple words.


#123    Setton

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 04:58 PM

View Postpantodragon, on 29 April 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

Did IQs suddenly drop since my last visit to the forum?  But then, they're at rock bottom anyway, so how much lower can they get?!!!!   There's EVERYTHING about bullying here.  Just because I haven't used the word................ Well, scientists, like artists, have always considered themselves above having to actually express themselves in simple words.

Is the ... computer ... bullying you...? Or the exam..?

A big part of science, as you ought to know, is that every word used has ONE very specific meaning, which requires using slightly more unusual words. We could put things in simple words but it would actually make them harder to understand.

And you flatter me in thinking my IQ was above 140 before today. Guess I'll just have to cope with being merely gifted...

On a more serious note, keep the personal attacks out of it in future. Thank you.

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#124    pantodragon

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 02:41 PM

View PostSetton, on 29 April 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

Is the ... computer ... bullying you...? Or the exam..?

Yes.  Or, to be absolutely precise (+ or - 0.3 nanometes), computers and exams are being used to bully me.

Quote

A big part of science, as you ought to know, is that every word used has ONE very specific meaning, which requires using slightly more unusual words. We could put things in simple words but it would actually make them harder to understand.

This is a new one on me, I have to say!  To be able to express one's thoughts and ideas in simple everyday language makes them harder to understand???!!!..............only for scientists who understand nothing but know a lot of jargon and have taken refuge behind it.


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On a more serious note, keep the personal attacks out of it in future. Thank you.

If you want to avoid argument don't wave a red rag at a bull.  Becayse that's what you are doing, waving a red rag.


#125    pantodragon

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 02:42 PM

With respect to children’s behaviour (in or out of school), I refer you to:

(1) markdohle’s post: Rite of Passage (Unexplained Mysteries: Philosophy and Psychology forum).

(2) Michel de Montaigne’s essay: “Of Custom, and that we should not easily change a law received”.

Both are extremely pertinent to the points I have been making.


#126    Setton

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 02:58 PM

View Postpantodragon, on 02 May 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

Yes.  Or, to be absolutely precise (+ or - 0.3 nanometes), computers and exams are being used to bully me.

I can kind of see your point when it comes to exams in that having to teach to the exam can be frustrating. As for technology, times change. Change with them or be left behind. You may find evolution an interesting topic to consider.

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This is a new one on me, I have to say!  To be able to express one's thoughts and ideas in simple everyday language makes them harder to understand???!!!..............only for scientists who understand nothing but know a lot of jargon and have taken refuge behind it.

And yet you claim to have been a scientist...

Describing things using words with multiple meanings makes them harder to understand. That should be obvious. Any decent scientist will describe things to the general public in simple terms. In the context of scientific debate or education, however, the correct and accurate terms should be used to avoid confusion. It has nothing to do with considering themselves superior.

Quote

If you want to avoid argument don't wave a red rag at a bull.  Becayse that's what you are doing, waving a red rag.

I am quite happy to argue with you (although I would prefer an intelligent debate), as evidenced by the fact that this thread is now 9 pages long. Personal attacks, however, are not part of any reasonable person's argument/debate and are forbidden under the forum rules. Just a friendly warning in case the next person you try to insult isn't so tolerant.

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#127    pantodragon

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 02:55 PM

View PostSetton, on 02 May 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

. As for technology, times change. Change with them or be left behind. You may find evolution an interesting topic to consider.

A scientist remarked recently that technology is changing so fast that soon we will no longer be able to keep up with it.  Change with them or be left behind?  Are you being serious?


Quote

Describing things using words with multiple meanings makes them harder to understand. That should be obvious.


Scientists talk out of context, based on no grounds.  The context is vital and it is the context that gives precision to meaning and makes it unambiguous.

Quote


Any decent scientist will describe things to the general public in simple terms.

In that case, I have yet to encounter a decent scientist.  Actually, the (eminent) scientists I hear on tv or radio are more often to be heard sniping at one another than explaining things to the public: Steve Jones is a right one for having a go at physicists.

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In the context of scientific debate or education, however, the correct and accurate terms should be used to avoid confusion. It has nothing to do with considering themselves superior.

I stand by what I said.  Scientists and other academics hide behind their jargon.



Quote

Personal attacks, however, are not part of any reasonable person's argument/debate and are forbidden under the forum rules. Just a friendly warning in case the next person you try to insult isn't so tolerant.

Tolerant? You mean like the Inquisition was tolerant of heretics?  Get yourself some backbone and stop sniveling and running to the rules like a wean running to its mammy, for goodness sakes!!  The following therapy might help:

Watch the film GI Jane, and take a lesson.  Take particular note of what Master Chief quotes to recruits when they start whimpering:

“I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.
A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough
without ever having felt sorry for itself”

It used to be said: When the going gets tough, the tough get going.  Today things have changed and the saying needs to be rewritten thus: When the going gets tough, the tough get PTSD. (PTSD = Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)

One of my ambitions, which I have not yet mentioned, is to re-order the human evolutionary tree and re-instate Australopithecus robustus and Homo erectus as direct ancestors of modern man, and get rid of Homo crawlius-on-the-bellius (or was that a Roman general related to Ginandtonicus?) and Homo habilis (aka Homo touchius-feelius).  (You are right, evolution is an interesting topic to consider.)

Actually, you may not know this, but there is a type of therapy which relies on abuse for its effect.  See the film Local Hero where the head of a large oil corporation is taking abuse from his therapist Moritz for the sake of his health.

This is actually an interesting film on another account: it is in that British tradition of lovely, nice, gentle, cosy, villagey, rural cinema.  But the atmosphere turns menacing right at the end when the “lovely” villagers turn against the one person who is blocking their ambitions.  This is really a very nasty scene.  This is a Lord of the Flies moment when what is called “the veneer of civilisation” is stripped back and people’s true nature comes through.  (But if you’ve been following my posts, you will know that this is not man’s true nature: this is man addicted to power.)  This is the true nature of the rose.  It smells so sweet and looks so pretty, but it has thorns.  In fact, this is the point of the rose: it lures with its prettiness and its sweet smell so that people will grasp its thorns and blood will be spilt.

But as I’ve said time and again, bad behaviour rebounds on the perpetrator:

“O Rose, thou art sick.
The invisible worm
That flies in the night
In the howling storm

Has found out thy bed
Of crimson joy,
And his dark secret love
Does thy life destroy.”

Edited by pantodragon, 04 May 2013 - 02:55 PM.


#128    Setton

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 03:08 PM

View Postpantodragon, on 04 May 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

A scientist remarked recently that technology is changing so fast that soon we will no longer be able to keep up with it.  Change with them or be left behind?  Are you being serious?

Yes. And if you had an ounce of sense or ability about you, you might have adapted and had a chance as a teacher. Rather than having to blame everyone else for your incompetence.

Quote

Scientists talk out of context, based on no grounds.  The context is vital and it is the context that gives precision to meaning and makes it unambiguous.


In that case, I have yet to encounter a decent scientist.  Actually, the (eminent) scientists I hear on tv or radio are more often to be heard sniping at one another than explaining things to the public: Steve Jones is a right one for having a go at physicists.



I stand by what I said.  Scientists and other academics hide behind their jargon.

Then I've no option to consider you a liar or delusional. To claim that you were once a scientist but exhibit such a woefully insufficient understanding of science and scientists makes no sense. I prefer not to waste my time arguing with people who are deluded or liars so I think this debate is done.

Quote

Tolerant? You mean like the Inquisition was tolerant of heretics?  Get yourself some backbone and stop sniveling and running to the rules like a wean running to its mammy, for goodness sakes!!  The following therapy might help:

I had no idea someone who's been through your terrible ordeals (which are obviously anyone's fault but yours) could be so naive. Someone less tolerant would have reported you first time. This is your second chance. Once is a mistake, twice is foolishness, a third time is deliberate.

Perhaps you could take your own advice: Rather than whinging to everyone about how everyone is out to get you and obsessed with power, grow your own backbone and either find a job you're capable of or train to be good at the one you have.

Just don't blame your failings on other people, least of all the children you're supposed to be educating. What kind of example does that set? If the going gets tough just give up and blame everyone else? Pathetic...

Edited by Setton, 04 May 2013 - 03:09 PM.

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#129    pantodragon

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 03:43 PM

View PostSetton, on 04 May 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

.... If the going gets tough....

At least you read the therapy suggestion.  If even a little of it has penetrated, I shall not consider that I have wasted my time.


"Priest: Always one, isn't there? Now, where were we?
Matthias: Look, I don't think it ought to be blasphemy, just
saying "Jehova"!
Women disguised as bearded men: Aiiih! He did!
Priest: You're only making it worse for yourself!
Matthias: Making it worse? How could it be worse? Jehova,
Jehova, Jehova!
Women disguised as bearded men: Aiiih!
Priest: I'm warning you! If you say Jehova once more...
Rock thrown at Priest: [Bladonk]
Priest: Right! Who threw that?
Matthias: Hehehe...
Priest: Come on! Who threw that?
Women disguised as bearded men: She did! She did! She did!
Him! Him! Him!
Priest: Was it you?
Woman II: Yes.
Priest: Right...
Woman II: Well, you did say Jehova!
Women disguised as bearded men: Aiiih!"


#130    Setton

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 03:51 PM

View Postpantodragon, on 04 May 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

At least you read the therapy suggestion.  If even a little of it has penetrated, I shall not consider that I have wasted my time.

Yes, as I have for the last 9 pages, I read your whole post. Now if only you could extend the same courtesy...

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.




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