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Anubis, Thoth and Ma'at


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#1    desert palm tree

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 01:33 PM

Anubis, Thoth and Ma'at...who are these gods and goddess?Are they Egyptian trinity?  Many interpretations have been made - without much relevance. Anubis sky god - Father God? Thoth, son of God, Ma'at , Holy Ghost?

Christian gods or three god in one, fATHER,sON and hOLY gHOST, what's got to do with salvation?


#2    freetoroam

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 01:50 PM

Anubis. Appearance: Man with a jackal head; A jackal. Anubis was the god of embalming and the dead.The name is ancient  Greek and is associated with the  mummification and the afterlife in ancient Egyptian religion.

Thoth. God of the Moon, Magic and Writing. he is known as other names too.

Maat or ma'at 1] also spelled māt or mayet, was the ancient Egyptian concept of truth, balance, order, law, morality, and justice.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#3    cladking

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 02:56 PM

No one agrees with me yet but I believe Ma'at was the "Goddess of Truth and Balance". This
was a natural phenomenon that man observed in nature and adopted for his own use.  Ma'at
was necessary even for the sun to rise so it was crucial that man lived by her tenents. This was
not merely truth and balance but more the balance of truth and the truth inherent in balance.
One trues a scale to achieve balance and balances a scale to achieve truth.

Thot is a little more complicated to express in modern language.  It's tempting to define him as
the "natural phenomenon of man" or "God of Man" but this misses the mark a little.  Thot was
more like "human progress" or "natural phenomenon of the improvement in metaphysics". He
was a voice of the gods and the way man understood the "gods".  He was more associated
with language than most other things.  His consort was Seshat who was the "phenomenon of
writing".

Anubis is simple enough.  He was the head jackal who made the king eternal.  The  jackals
built the pyramid and he was the on the box which held the firepan and directed all operations
from atop the pyramid.  He was the phenomena of pyramid building and he weighed the king's
heart to assure he was worthy of immortality.

I'm sure religion came from ancient concepts but I'm starting to think the more direct route
was through Horus the Elder/ Horus the Younger/  Atum.  I believe religion was an attempt
to preserve ancient knowledge.  In some ways it's been highly successful but in other ways
not.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#4    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:18 PM

View Postcladking, on 14 May 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

Anubis is simple enough.  He was the head jackal who made the king eternal.  The  jackals
built the pyramid and he was the on the box which held the firepan and directed all operations
from atop the pyramid.  He was the phenomena of pyramid building and he weighed the king's
heart to assure he was worthy of immortality.

Must have been mighty crowded ontop of that pyramid, what with the microwave transmitter, subspace communicator, beacon to guide survivors of the "flood" to come the "recovery vault", beacon to guide the starships in to land and who knows what others devices.

As for trinities. Well this changed over the millenia, though I don't see a trinity in the way of having three main gods who are also one. A "conventional" trinity as in other religions, Greek or Roman for instance, could be Ra, Osiris and Isis. But perhaps a more mystical one would be one of the later syncretic gods. Atum -Ra or Ra-Horakhty or other combinations with Ptah. I see Ra-Horakhty as being closest to the Christian trinity as this is not simply Ra and Horus, seemingly a duality, for there are different forms of Horus and I think even Khonsu can be added to them as he outgrew his earlier war god manifestation and became, to me, a variant of Horus. I would even go so far as to say a dark side of Horus. No evidence for this, simply a "feeling" but these days "feelings" or anything else seem to be "evidence" so I join in :)


#5    cladking

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:36 PM

View PostTutankhaten-pasheri, on 14 May 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Must have been mighty crowded ontop of that pyramid, what with the microwave transmitter, subspace communicator, beacon to guide survivors of the "flood" to come the "recovery vault", beacon to guide the starships in to land and who knows what others devices.

Don't forget all those Horus' up there "who" had to be conducted to their
proper places.

Quote

As for trinities. Well this changed over the millenia, though I don't see a trinity in the way of having three main gods who are also one. A "conventional" trinity as in other religions, Greek or Roman for instance, could be Ra, Osiris and Isis. But perhaps a more mystical one would be one of the later syncretic gods. Atum -Ra or Ra-Horakhty or other combinations with Ptah. I see Ra-Horakhty as being closest to the Christian trinity as this is not simply Ra and Horus, seemingly a duality, for there are different forms of Horus and I think even Khonsu can be added to them as he outgrew his earlier war god manifestation and became, to me, a variant of Horus. I would even go so far as to say a dark side of Horus. No evidence for this, simply a "feeling" but these days "feelings" or anything else seem to be "evidence" so I join in :)

I'm not married to the trinity idea.  There's not really evidence per se for it anyway.
It's just that there's nothing new today and this was just as true in the 4th dynasty and
ever since.  There are some "natural trinities" in the enneads defined as three trinities.

Never discount "feelings" so long as they come from an educated gut.  Just remember
that even the strongest feeling might be nothing but a little gas.  You can't use feelings
to create an argument and only a fool would spend a lot of effort to build on them.


Edited to add that Anubis seems exceedingly well defined in the cultural record.  He was
later mistaken to be the so called "god of embalming" but this is a perfectly natural con-
fusion once they no longer built pyramids.  The gods simply morphed into things that
still existed.  Where Anubis had enabled the king to live forever by building his ka, he
came to help people live forever by preserving their bodies through mummification.  These
changes are actually apparent if you believe the pyramid builders were highly rational.

Edited by cladking, 14 May 2013 - 03:41 PM.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#6    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:48 PM

View Postcladking, on 14 May 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

You can't use feelings
to create an argument and only a fool would spend a lot of effort to build on them.

Yes, I found out here very recently that feelings and fools make for "interesting" "debate" Oi oi oi......


#7    freetoroam

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:21 PM

View Postcladking, on 14 May 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

No one agrees with me yet but I believe Ma'at was the "Goddess of Truth and Balance".


? huh ?
Its in the post above yours.


As for this bit?

"This was not merely truth and balance but more the balance of truth and the truth inherent in balance.
One trues a scale to achieve balance and balances a scale to achieve truth.
"

Posted Image

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#8    The_Spartan

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:57 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 14 May 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

? huh ?
Its in the post above yours.


As for this bit?

"This was not merely truth and balance but more the balance of truth and the truth inherent in balance.
One trues a scale to achieve balance and balances a scale to achieve truth.
"

Posted Image

I was wondering the same thing!!
Ma'at is indeed the "Goddess of Truth and Balance"

Quote

Ma'at, unlike Hathor and Nephthys, seemed to be more of a concept than an actual goddess. Her name, literally, meant 'truth' in Egyptian. She was truth, order, balance and justice personified. She was harmony, she was what was right, she was what things should be. It was thought that if Ma'at didn't exist, the universe would become chaos, once again!

Link




Quote

Maat or ma'at (thought to have been pronounced *[muʔ.ʕat]),[1] also spelled māt or mayet, was the ancient Egyptian concept of truth, balance, order, law, morality, and justice. Maat was also personified as a goddess regulating the stars, seasons, and the actions of both mortals and the deities, who set the order of the universe from chaos at the moment of creation. Her (ideological) counterpart was Isfet.
Link



and CK, it is the general consensus.
Funny, you going mainstream.

Damn! this forum should have a ROFL icon to use in special occasions like this.!!

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#9    desert palm tree

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:33 PM

Majestic 12 , I believe you well define Ma'at and Thoth, but for the Anubis . . .
   Anubis is not Jackal, but dog. Dogs have honesty, courage with patience and tenderness. Thoth the embodiment of Truth, knowledge, intellect , and the "heart and tongue of Ra " must balance himself with feather / simplicity , scale /justice, balance. And with Ma'at who keeps watching if the weighing of the heart is done properly - with tender love, conscience.
   And also with Anubis who keep his faith , faith of immortality, peace and good will. Keep watching with honest brave heart.


#10    jaylemurph

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:35 PM

You sound a bit like a Renaissance hermeticist desperately trying to match christian iconography with ancient ones to "prove" the christian god was there the whole time.

I would be /extremely/ cautious about applying a basic tenet of Christianity (the trinity) to Ancient Egyptian religion. It's about as useful and about informative to compare those three gods to Jerry Seinfeld, George Costanza and Elaine Benes. Try to understand Ancient Egyptian gods in the terms used by the Ancient Egyptians.

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Posted Image

Deeply venial

#11    cladking

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:36 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 14 May 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

? huh ?
Its in the post above yours.


As for this bit?

"This was not merely truth and balance but more the balance of truth and the truth inherent in balance.
One trues a scale to achieve balance and balances a scale to achieve truth.
"

The_Spartan;

"and CK, it is the general consensus.
Funny, you going mainstream."

This is simply one of the concepts where mainstream and I are in fairly close agreement.  We
get all our opinions from the same source so it's only natural we'd closely agree sometimes.  Indeed,
I often say that I believe the mainstream opinion is usually correct but only in a left handed sort of way.

Our agreement on "Ma'at" is not nearly soclose as you seem to believe though.  First off, and most im-
portantly the ancients did not see maat as a god.  Maat was an aspect of nature that nothing went to
waste.  If a bird died then it was eaten by a scavenger.  If something went up then it came down.  They
didn't worship or praise "Ma'at", they observed that maat existed.  They didn't believe in "Ma'at" they saw
that without maat not even the sun could rise.  "Khepri" was the aspect of pre-existence as exemplifief by
the same sunspots in the east that had set the day before in the west. They knew it was the same sun;
khepri, and they knew that ma'at was responsible for it rising again.  This is science rather than religion.
It is primitive science based on observation and logic rather than observation and experiment.  "Ma'at"
is usually mistranslated apparently as "truth" but a better translation is usually "balance".  It is both but
we have few usages of it and the nature of most of these usages are cancerned more with balance than
truth.

When the science is done and there's any cause to accept mainstream opinion, then I'll go mainstream.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#12    cladking

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:39 PM

View Postjaylemurph, on 14 May 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

You sound a bit like a Renaissance hermeticist desperately trying to match christian iconography with ancient ones to "prove" the christian god was there the whole time.

I would be /extremely/ cautious about applying a basic tenet of Christianity (the trinity) to Ancient Egyptian religion. It's about as useful and about informative to compare those three gods to Jerry Seinfeld, George Costanza and Elaine Benes. Try to understand Ancient Egyptian gods in the terms used by the Ancient Egyptians.


I'm of the opinion that the pagan religions essentially evolved into Christianity, Islam, etc...

However, I strongly disagree and the original "gods" were not Gods at all and were actually
a representation of scientific thought.

Edited by cladking, 14 May 2013 - 06:40 PM.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#13    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:39 PM

View PostThe_Spartan, on 14 May 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:


Damn! this forum should have a ROFL icon to use in special occasions like this.!!
Something like this? Posted Image


#14    jaylemurph

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:58 PM

View Postcladking, on 14 May 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

I'm of the opinion that the pagan religions essentially evolved into Christianity, Islam, etc...

I'm not sure I'd use the term 'evolve', as it suggests to me a directly linear, formative relationship. However, it's undeniably true, as you say, that various local gods and traditions deeply affected christianity as it grew -- look at Santeria in Central America, or the fact that Easter in English is named after a Celtic fertility goddess.

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Posted Image

Deeply venial

#15    desert palm tree

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:02 PM

Ma'at <holy ghost >love.
Thoth<jesus of egypt > truth.
Anubis<father >life.





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