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40th anniversary of Pascagoula abduction


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#166    psyche101

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:19 AM

View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

Gidday mate, yes indeed, very much needed at the moment....

Gidday

One of the theme parks here is doing a white Christmas with snow machines, I might have to get a look at that, never seen a white Christmas.

BTW, That S Radio was at the Miguel site, they seem to have lost the pictures, and accidentally (I hope) removed some text. It now says:

The chances are that the first two post-abduction experiences Hickson have been the work of his mind trying to eliminate uncertainty and, incidentally, find a positive way to their Original abduction. The third experience is more complex because it involves several members of his family.
's "radio", through which Charlie receives telepathic messages, seems to echo the need to understand their need to make sense of what happened in October 1973.

We can see here that clearly something has been deleted.


View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

  not sure what this corroborates to be honest. If we use the example of someone who has lost someone very close, then years later they suffer a breakdown and claim to see the person in question, one would not think the initial 'memory' that is creating the apparition is false, it just indicates that the mind is able to manifest memorys in various ways....especially years after

Nice analogy, like a ghost right?

And because the men had different post experiences, that can still mean they experienced, the same thing initially, well I do agree with that much, I do feel their experience may have been one and the same, however, as there is no obvious signs of insanity with Charlie as there is with Calvin, yet Charlie corroborates continued contact even if he does not state the religious message, but the more standard message of We Are Here To Help?

And does that Make Charlie more believable?

As the contact happened weeks after the event, January 1974 Charlie received his first message, which is still close enough to the initial event to be considered a part of it. IMHO. Parker admittedly had to wait 19 years for the next contact, but again, Charlie has to be aware of Calvin's new tale, yet we seem to see no comment from Charlie?


View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

yes they are trained but it seems it was the story they told that raised that possibility coupled with Charlies admission to drinking. There is nothing to say that just by looking at the men the shriff arrived at said possibility. I think Charlie said he had the drink sitting int he car prior to contacting the sheriff, so Calvin would have seen him drink.

Yes, Charlie had a drink, right after the incident though if I remeber, which had to result on whiskey on his breath, and any trained officer ought to pick that up.

So if Charlie was telling the truth, they as professionals would be remiss not to suspect alcohol.

And then a few later that night to

Dun dun

Help him sleep.

I do feel that there is as much evidence that Charlie raped Calvin as there is for aliens.

Now why did the police not confiscate the Whiskey and test it as well? Could it have been spiked as a prank, could it have been spikes as a revenge? Or could it simply have had a bad fermentation process resulting in a mildly toxic substance resulting in sleep paralysis? It is not more far fetched than an alien spaceship surely? I remember discussing an idea that BIgfoot could be such an apparition at one time in the crypto session, and considered perhaps a type of undiscovered fungus with a narcotic spore release might be considered as the trigger. Stand on it and take a trip.

View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

  past experience of calming his own nerves maybe?, even though past experience is speculative in itself.

For sure considering he had a tipple later that night.

Sounds like he and Joe would have got along well!

View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

yes, Calvins father trusted Charlie enough to send his son to be looked after by Charlie. Charlie got him a job and I would expect a close relationship...as a fatherly figure. I have seen nothing to suggest otherwise.

Yet after this they parted ways and Clavin moved away?

Do you know if they ever saw each other again?

View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

he actually said something to help calm you down to enable you to sleep, rather than something that makes you sleep

I would be wary of giving a man a drink who had not drunk before. But I have seen many a short man drunk on Rum. No giant myself, but a happy drinker, not a violent one.

View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

many of the sentences dont, we have to think about context, context being the intelligence of teh men, the timeframe, the trauma of the experience....all these factors would make anyone talk elements of jibberish and some sentences would not be cohesive....I would expect this and see it as supporting rather than opposing.

Quite honestly, I could not see if it was supporting or opposing, I thought it could go either way, the text is damming, and I accept the disclaimer that they were traumatized enough to be speaking gibberish, but really, if the trauma was indeed that great, how do we know how much was indeed gibberish? Here we have an example of nonsense, and to me many elements of the claim are preposterous, such as the size of the craft, which I know we disagree on, but to me is significant. As such, anything could have happened.

View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

although Calvin would not have a memory of the light, the door opening, the beings etc

Going into an unconscious state is often accompanied by dreaming. Such as near death experiences.  

View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

I dont see how their belief would have a bearing, wouldnt angels seem more appropriate?

That is essentially what Calvins Aliens turned into after 19 years. Minus the wings is all.

View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

  I have a feeling he did, what about the other Doctor that I alluded to in an earlier post (from a link you provided)


Carl Sagan made fun of them on National TV I hear, and did not believe them for a second. But apparently Mack contributed to a show meant for tv called Into The Unknown, which I shall endeavour to attain a copy of. I think I have already found one, I will let you know how I go. Did you ever get a hold of and watch that Roswell movie? Wasn't bad actually for a movie made for TV. Much better that that insanely boring Travis Walton tripe, he has a new theory on his abduction I hear. Never let go the teats of that cash cow Travis!!!

But not everyone thought they were lying, I figured you might like this, not sure if you have seen it, not posted so far as far as I know:

I happened to be working for Ingalls Shipbuilding at the time of the UFO incident.  My office was in the refurbished "port warehouse building" that was only a couple hundred yards from where Hickson and Parker were fishing.  And one of my colleagues, Jerry Shaver, had gone to school with Hickson.  According to Jerry, "Charlie Hickson is one of the finest men I've ever known.  I promise you that he would never tell a lie."

LINK

Means little, but hey, nice sentiment to see Charlie to his final resting place.

Those Doctors say Calivin is just fine, no mental problems? Anyone can see that is not quite right?

Link - Sagans Comments. He had some comments about Coynes UFO too.


Sagan had been systematically picking holes in Capt. Coyne's account of how a UFO had pulled his Army helicopter up nearly 2,000 feet in altitude during his encounter, and Dr. Hynek came to Coyne's defense, saying "Altimeters don't hallucinate." To which Dr. Sagan replied, "I don't mean to attack Captain Coyne, but people who read altimeters hallucinate."

Edited by psyche101, 14 November 2013 - 03:03 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#167    psyche101

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:58 AM

View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

I just struggle with anything Calvin says so many years after.

We can agree on the starting point of the trauma though, and you can see what I am saying, is it not very strange that the men would have such different reactions to the same event? I expect diversity, but Calvin really lost it. Charlie appears quite composed by comparison.

View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

ignoring the sources which seem to all make things up as they go along, we shoul;d focus on Charlies actual words, and everytime I have listened to any recording he is constistant with size.

We have a verified transcript very close to the event which I feel is very valid, and almost every source has a different size, yet they had to get it from someplace, and that can only have been Charlie. I honestly have to wonder why every estimate is rounded down, none seem to be 30 foot by 30 foot, or more, they are all small. The articles do show consistency in this regard.

View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

have you listened to the military interview? neither have I, however all other recording we have of Charlie, where we listened to his own voice, they are all consistant, so I argue that there is potentially an error in the transcript at best, or Charlie made an error under the
intense interrogation.....

Not sure about you, but I consider written information as more reliable than verbal. It's a very good idea to deploy this in business.

View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

yes but the artist tries to capture the glow effect

He does, but as I say, the outline is very definite, and if the glow is exaggerated, that would make the craft appear even smaller to Charlie wouldn't it? I fe it is ridiculously small at best estimate.

View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Charlie talks of human like beings, he says the creatures were more robotic. Even though this comes at the future sighting. If we stick to timeframe then there is no need for a messanger of God, rendering the point moot

On the ship he only saw the Robots and Mechanical eye didn't he?

There is a need for the messenger of God - Reference to identify said humanoid being, whom I assume contacted Charlie telepathically, not literal - the ship needed a pilot, and it was designed for a being with a sense of direction, not the carrot heads who had no real front and back, but carrot like growths in 4 directions.

View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

no need if we were in court during the time, however if in the future follwoing on from their 'elaborations' then I would call to the stand the 'non-robotic' beings Charlie mentions

Cannot be the pilot of the directional vehicle - not designed for them.

View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

I think it would be good to see what Charlie said many years later once Calvin made his claims, I will see what I can find.

Best of luck to you, all I found was mountains of Charlie talking about the incident.

View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

not at all. The fact they are worth $200 now indicates that few copies were sold, the initial copies are where the men would make money not future royalties on second hand value. They have no royalty on second hand sales. I guess an analogy/comparison would be a painter who many years ago sold a painting for a few $$ then 50 years later the painting is sold for millions........this does not indicate that the painter had a lucrative trade.

That is till a lucrative investment the way I see it. Time and paint made something very valuable. Not a lucrative income, I agree.

View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

actually Charlie says in the early interviews/interrogations that he felt he was not under threat.

Not what the "secret" tapes indicate though.

CHARLIE: They won't believe it. They gonna believe it one of these days. Might be too late. I knew all along they was people from other worlds up there. I knew all along. I never thought it would happen to me.


Bolding mine.

View Postquillius, on 12 November 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

The major contradictions you allude to only appear many years later when Calvin is 'dressing up' the story.

But seem to factor in to the initial account, such as the need for a pilot, which I would agree with scowl, does not seem to be dressing up so much as outright lying or perhaps correcting details.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#168    quillius

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:52 PM

View Postscowl, on 13 November 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

[/size]

Here's something we can agree on.



:w00t: :tu:


#169    quillius

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:58 PM

Psyche,

will have to come back to you on some of your points as flat out today.

may potentially leave pascagoula alone for a few weeks as it requires too much time, and as Scowl has suggested, it will never really be to any firm conclusion I guess.

For me I would be happy to take this case to the stage of 'the men were not lying, and they had an encounter with something, be it a UFO or UAP etc etc (exlcude a BOW - bottle of whiskey)  but whether they were abducted or not is another story

:tu:


#170    1963

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:36 PM

View Postquillius, on 13 November 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

Quote

Hello buddy, good to see you join in the debate. You are right in that I do really like this case. The bottom line for me is having read and listened to the various first hand testimony/interviews/secret recordings I am convinced that both men are not lying and that they believe they had an experience in line with what they claim.

To be honest I have yet to see the discrepencies that you mention, I feel these discrpencies only happen when we are talking about the various elaborations that happened many years later, also worth noting that these came after hypnosis, which in itself can create numerous issues. I have yet to see any discrepency (many journalists/debunkers have said there are many), there is only one I am aware of. This is during the military interrogation when Charlies is 'supposed' to have said 8ft x 8ft rather than 8ft x 8ft x 30ft. Is there any specific discrepency you can point me too?


Hi Quillius, sorry for the delayed response my friend. [but you know that there isn't enough hours in the day to do what you would really rather do.!]
...And I have to say that I am guilty of not boning-up on the case sufficiently before jumping in!....after your sterling defence of the 'early discrepancy-tally' I willingly concede that I hadn't previously studied the facts of this case closely enough, ..and unforgivably-relied on the easily available google-links to many inaccurate tellings of this tale!...But after a closer look at the event and timings of the much-publicised discrepancies in the pair's verbal descriptions of the 'bogeymen' etc, it is much easier to see that their initial report was pretty solid and a lot more believable than I first thought!..and I concur that their later embellishments must be considered as an unfortunate human trait, and as after-the-fact aberrations that should perhaps be discounted.
As to the 'size of the craft' anomaly...again this could quite possibly be a mere slip of the tongue, and isn't enough on it's own to halt the train!



Quote

I fully agree that the event or perception of could have possibly been a combination of a hallucination and some 'suggestive' discussions that happened in the 45 minutes sitting in the car that created a false memory.

Possibly!...?...I would have thought that a story this elaborate and well performed might just take a lot more time to formulate and become 'real' enough to endure the subsequent grillings?.

Quote

I like gut instinct, and mine when listening and reading transcripts says the men are not lying.

..Yes they do sound convincing!....but then we are both old enough to know that there are some very good liars in this world ...and that is where our discernment skills have no other option than to rely on our own personal gut instinct....and this seems to be the only area where we differ.

Quote

To the extent I would put my house up as a stake

Don't be silly....get a grip man!...but I get it, that  your positive-gut-instinct is a whole lot stronger than mine in this case. lol.

Quote

.....I do something on a professional level that requires me to ascertain whether someone is telling me the truth, based on both visual and audible information. I need to make this decision usually within 1 minute and have spent many years perfecting this art.

mmm?..Are you Hercule Poirot? :P

Quote

At the same time I realise that I can be wrong but I am really convinced the men are not lying. Does this mean they were really abducted? no, there is plenty of scope for other explanations...hoax/lie is not an explanation I buy into though.

As I said previously....I am still of the opinion that the two of them 'probably' did have a shockingly-close encounter with an unknown craft,...but are guilty of an almighty 'Embellishment! [which I suppose means that I cannot object to the term hoax/liar!] ..so that's another minor thing that we don't agree on.

Quote

this bolded part my friend is exaclty where I am at....UAP? maybe....ET? maybe....

Granted Quillius...but you know me.....UAP? maybe.....ET? quite possible....


Quote

I have seen the Sheriffs own words regarding this part. He says that once Charlie came into the station the first thing he said was that he had had a drink, and did not try and hide this fact.

Yep, that was the point I was ham-fistedly trying to make. ..alcohol was not the fuel for this perplexing tale.



Quote

In summary though I have not seen any holes blown into this event yet. Psyche has (as you can imagine) gone at it and put it (and me) through its paces but I feel it still stands up.

Yes it's a good one, and I too have yet to see the real 'case-killer' ...but still have doubts.

Quote

I guess we will never prove anything either way with this case, al I can do is go with my own interpretation, and that is that the men were not lying and believed they had the experience they claimed to have had.

Of course you must follow your own impressions on this case, ..and any other for that matter.!..And I know that there are many other cases and testimonies that we will not agree upon...but then that is the beauty of civilised discussion, and is why it is always a great pleasure to ruminate the possibility of validity in these matters with you my friend!

:tu:


...Anyway,...just as a postscript to this post, I thought that I had found a bit of supporting data for the case earlier, ...when I came across a little fact that I hadn't heard before.
It was that there was a little known mysterious event that occurred on the same day in many states of the US that looked a dead cert to be connected to a whole spate of UFO sightings , including the Hickson/Parker episode.

"....It's that on October 11, 1973 a very loud “sonic type boom” was heard across a several state area from Ohio and progressed eastward to the East Coast. The sound was first reported at 8:41 PM in Ohio and later at 8:53 PM in Pennsylvania.  This incident researched extensively at the time by Irene Scott (MUFON

Board Member). Contacts with NASA and the Air Force ruled out a squadron of jets or a meteor.  Ironically after the boom an unusually high number of UFO reports occurred. For example on October 17, 1973 Franklin County, Ohio law enforcement officials received a record 150 UFO reports and officials in Wheeling, West Virginia received 100 reports.

The Hickson – Parker abduction occurred on the same day as the “big boom” occurred across the midwest and eastern U.S. As a matter of fact the time even lines up. The Hickson – Parker encounter occurred around 9 PM Central Time. The loud boom occurred between 8:41 PM and 8:53 PM Eastern Time (7:41 PM and 7:53 PM Central Time). Is this a coincidence? Did something enter our atmosphere that resulted in the Hickson – Parker encounter and a wave of other UFO sightings? Is this a coincidence?




..from here....


http://www.ufosnw.co...ar2011pp6-7.pdf


...and....


http://www.ufosnw.co...istory-of-ufos/


....but then, with a little further research I found this...


http://www.ufosnw.co...1973ufowave.htm

  • 11 Oct 1973
      SR-71A #979 Flown to Griffis AFB, NY for "Giant Reach" ops,USAF Pilot/ RSO: James Shelton/ Gary Coleman (BB)

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false



....so it proved to be a fruitless lead! <_< ....but imo, still interesting ! [to me at least!]


Cheers Buddy.



When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
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#171    scowl

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:10 AM

View Postquillius, on 11 November 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

UFO explained, produced in 1975. Cant remember page number but there is around 20 pages about Pascagoula. I just think its interesting that Klass claims to have heard this from two different people and yet never attacked this claim himself.  I havent the info you ask but I will keep searching.

OK I found my vintage copy of "UFOs Explained" in a box full of books on MS-DOS. Let me sum up the 20 pages here.

Klass says that the "abduction" (his use of quotes) is not as detailed nor interesting as Barney and Betty Hill or the abduction of Brazilian farmer Antonio Villas-Boas. The location where they were fishing is just a few blocks east from downtown Pascagoula and just a few hundred feet from busy highway 90 into town -- hardly a remote location -- yet no one saw anything.

In his first interview with the tabloid The National Taddler, Hickson said that the craft was ten feet wide and eight feet high. I guess that seemed a bit small because he later said on the Cavett show that it was "around twenty feet long, the overall [sic] of it". The craft grew even more on the Mike Douglas Show a few weeks later when Hickson said it was "twenty to thirty feet long". In his first interview with an investigator he said that it was "sixteen to eighteen feet long".

He told the sheriff that they had been fishing at 7PM. On the Dick Cavett show he changed that to "between 8PM and 9PM." On the Mike Douglas Show he decided that they had actually started fishing "around nine o'clock".

Klass points out that Hickson didn't mention his "severe eye injury" to the sheriff or the investigators or the doctors at Keesler Air Force Base who examined him, or to anyone on the Dick Cavett Show. He kept that exciting detail for his appearance on the Mike Douglas Show months later. He then said his vision was affected "for about three days". When I took a carbon arc flash to my face back in the 1980's, it cleared up in about a day and a half so this was not something he would have slipped his mind if it had actually happened.

On the Dick Cavett Show when asked if he had heard anything resembling speech, Hickson replied "no". Later on when Cavett asked if the creatures tried to communicate with him, Hickson said "I did hear some mumbling, some type of mumbling from one of the things."

Hickson and Parker spent an hour or two hours or three hours (depending on which version you believe) in Hickson's car drinking and deciding what to do. They ruled out going to the hospital despite Parker losing consciousness and Hickson's supposedly damaged vision. They ruled out going to the authorities to warn the public that aliens were abducting people. They did the right and logical thing: at 11PM they went straight to the local newspaper.

Unfortunately it was closed. So then they decided to do the second best thing and call the sheriff who sent a deputy to pick them up. Hickson said later that he had asked "not to let it out to the news" which is odd since they had already attempted to contact the local newspaper. Instead Sheriff Fred Diamond said Hickson had told him to contact the media.

There are some pages explaining how unreliable polygraphs are. Most people understand that now but back the 1970's we called them "lie detectors" because most people thought they could read your mind. Klass explains that the results of a polygraph are open to interpretation by the operator. We now know that they are useless for verifying the details of traumatic memories.

It looks like Hickson went through some trouble to find the least experienced polygraph operator he could find. The operator's full name wasn't even disclosed ("Scott G.") and the test took place in New Orleans (over one hundred miles from Pascagoula) just before Hickson appeared on the Dick Cavett Show. It turned out the operator was not certified and was only on a one-year internship. There were several certified polygraph operators in Mobile, just thirty miles from Pascagoula.

Klass talked to Joseph Colingo, the attorney/publicist that Hickson and Parker had hired, about the polygraph. He caught him in several lies about the experience of the operator and the length of the tests performed. Colingo claimed that polygraph operators in Mobile "refused" to do the polygraph because Colingo demanded they do the test for free, supposedly to prevent biasing the results. However when Klass called Jack N. Wood, one of the certified polygraph operators in Mobile, he claimed that he had never been contacted by Colingo. Another certified polygraph operator, Frank Schottgen, he also claimed that he had never been contacted by Colingo. Colingo did however contact the polygraphist of the Mobile police department, Captain Charles Wimberly. When Wimberly explained that a proper polygraph test would have to be done in the Mobile police department offices, Colingo declined and never called again.

Colingo had reason to be worried about the polygraph. Five days after the alleged abduction had hit the media, a taxi driver in Gulfport, Mississippi reported that he had had an encounter with a strange looking creature at 3AM. Since the region was in a panic over UFOs, the chief of police in Gulfport felt obligated to verify the truth of this new story so he sent the witness to a certified polygraph examiner in Jackson. The witness completely flunked it and later admitted he had made the story up because he had fallen asleep on the job.

Interestingly, at that time Mississippi law required that polygraph operators be certified to practice in the state. Louisiana did not have a similar law and that's how Hickson was tested by an intern.

All this polygraph business leads to the mystery of Parker's supposed "nervous breakdown" (again, Klass's use of quotes) and hospitalization. That came from Hickson when people on the Cavett show asked why Parker wasn't tested. Colingo of course said this was correct however absolutely no details were released about Parker's hospitalization or when it happened or what hospital he was admitted to. Parker has never admitted to any kind of nervous breakdown or hospitalization. Parker had "recovered" (once again, Klass's use of quotes) well enough to appear on the Mike Douglas Show aired on December 31st and didn't seem stressed at all.

In a Rolling Stone article published on January 17,1974, reporter Joe Eszterhas claimed that Colingo was already telling him that if the story could be verified that he could make million dollars from it with an Exclusive Story, a book deal and subsequent movie rights. He had already complained to Klass that he wasn't making any money from it so far.

Klass concludes the chapter with a "so what?" explanation. Since there is no evidence, there is no way to prove the story is true. If the abduction is proved beyond all doubt to be a complete hoax, it makes no difference because yet more people will claim to have been abducted by other amazing space creatures and everyone will have forgotten about how they had been fooled by Hickson and Parker and the attorney they had hired.

Quote

Yes but at the Ingalls shipping yard teh plant went from strength to strength, with immnese growth, this was not seasonal by any stretch of the imagination

Let's get some facts straight. Hickson was fired from the large Ingalls Shipyards on November 20, 1972 for "conduct unbecoming a supervisor". It came out in the Rolling Stone article that he had been handing out promotions to employees who were loaning him money. He was able to get a lower paying job at the smaller Walker Shipyard. This is not the Arnold V. Walker Shipyard that had been purchased by Ingalls, but another yard owned by a relative of Arnold Walker. The lower paying job wasn't enough to keep Hickson from filing for bankruptcy on July 6, 1973, just a few months before the alleged abduction.


#172    psyche101

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 06:43 AM

The sonic boom from the Blackbird was but one, if it was attributed to the Pascagoula event, why only one boom?

Or just FTB's putting 2 and 2 together to make 5?

Edited by psyche101, 20 November 2013 - 06:44 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who




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