1834 replies to this topic

[Stundie]

skyeagle409, on 20 February 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

They are not experts in molten metal identification anymore than a manager of bank. Their expertise is fighting fires.

No they are firefighters and are quite capable of working out what was on fire, especially molten steel.......lol

And you are in no better position to claim they are wrong than a manager of a bank, considering that your 40 years would have been more productive pot washing.

You were not at GZ, you were sitting behind a keyboard pretending to be smart while exposing yourself...lol

Edited by Stundie, 20 February 2013 - 10:21 PM.

[skyeagle409]

Stundie, on 20 February 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

No they are firefighters and are quite capable of working out what was on fire, especially molten steel.......lol

No they are not. Remember, some irefighters at ground zero have also said they heard explosions, which were later attributed to the sounds of falling elevators.

Quote

And you are in no better position to claim they are wrong than a manager of a bank, considering that your 40 years would have been more productive pot washing.

The expertise of a firefighter lies in fighting fires, not working with metals, and a bank manager's expertise does not lie in the field of metal identification either. On the other hand,  I have worked in the metal forming field long enough in regards to airframes to know much more than they do.

[Stundie]

skyeagle409, on 21 February 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

No they are not.

Please explain how a group of firefighters who are all sitting around a table, who all agree they see pools of molten steel, like lava which obviously they will need to cool down, not be able tell it was steel and were confused because it was molten aluminium.

But even if we assume these firefighters are all too dumb to recognise or identify the molten metal and confuse it.

It still doesn't disprove the fact that we have professors and structural engineers who were there at GZ who said they saw molten beams/girders, which are made of steel last time I checked.

Unless you want to argue that beamd and girders are made of aluminium......lol

skyeagle409, on 21 February 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

Remember, some irefighters at ground zero have also said they heard explosions, which were later attributed to the sounds of falling elevators.

Remember most firefigters at GZ said they heard explosions which were not attributed to the sound of falling elevators and were attributed to something unknown.

Like Arturo who clearly experience 3 different explosions which your panto debunking is ineffective against.

Remember that some debunkers also claim that they know better than those at GZ and that they mistaken the explosions for Dr Pepper cans exploding from the heat in a vending machine and people jumping for their lives.

skyeagle409, on 21 February 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

The expertise of a firefighter lies in fighting fires, not working with metals, and a bank manager's expertise does not lie in the field of metal identification either. On the other hand,  I have worked in the metal forming field long enough in regards to airframes to know much more than they do.

The expertise of a group of firefighters whose job is cooling down the metal, who may have had other jobs where they worked with metal like you, who may have even have more expertise than your big ego can handle, and are more than capable at identifying sources and things on fires, are more than qualified in identifying steel  than you cause you were not there. And you do not need to be an expert regardless of your insistance , that even a 10 year old could cool down some molten metal and identify it.

You make it sound like they have to put the metal under extreme scientific conditions and perform complex operations that only a metallurgist can perform, to be able to identify the metal when the reality is, it can be easily identified.

So on the other hand, you may have washed plenty of dishes, but I still wouldn't trust your advice on wheher I should buy Dalton or Denby.

Edited by Stundie, 21 February 2013 - 01:50 AM.

[skyeagle409]

Stundie, on 21 February 2013 - 01:46 AM, said:

Please explain how a group of firefighters who are all sitting around a table, who all agree they see pools of molten steel, like lava which obviously they will need to cool down, not be able tell it was steel and were confused because it was molten aluminium....

It is very simple. The same reason where airmen from other shops had gone through our aluminum scrap barrels looking for stainless steel. Once again, why would there have been molten steel at ground zero in the first place? What would have been its source?

Quote

The expertise of a group of firefighters whose job is cooling down the metal, who may have had other jobs where they worked with metal like you, who may have even have more expertise than your big ego can handle, and are more than capable at identifying sources and things on fires, are more than qualified in identifying steel  than you cause you were not there. And you do not need to be an expert regardless of your insistance , that even a 10 year old could cool down some molten metal and identify it.

Were you aware that the solidfied steel you see in the background in the following photo was created by clean-up workers with torches?

Edited by skyeagle409, 21 February 2013 - 05:59 AM.

[Stundie]

skyeagle409, on 21 February 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

It is very simple. The same reason where airmen from other shops had gone through our aluminum scrap barrels looking for stainless steel.

I take it that you have never heard of personal incredulity and that it is not a argument or evidence which disproves what the firefighters say.

skyeagle409, on 21 February 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

Once again, why would there have been molten steel at ground zero in the first place?

I dunno, maybe there was something other than hydrocarbon fires burning within the rubble at GZ.

skyeagle409, on 21 February 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

What would have been its source?

Something under the rubble.

[skyeagle409]

Stundie, on 21 February 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

I take it that you have never heard of personal incredulity and that it is not a argument or evidence which disproves what the firefighters say.
I dunno, maybe there was something other than hydrocarbon fires burning within the rubble at GZ.

Firefighters are not metallurgist. They couldn't differentiate between molten steel from molten aluminum.

Quote

Something under the rubble.

What would have been the source since there is no reading indicating temperatures reached the melting point of steel?

Edited by skyeagle409, 21 February 2013 - 03:30 PM.

[Stundie]

skyeagle409, on 21 February 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

Firefighters are not metallurgist.

And I never said they were....lol

skyeagle409, on 21 February 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

They couldn't differentiate between molten steel from molten aluminum.

That is your opinion, which you think somehow is a fact, when it is not.

You do not need to be a metallugist to recognise molten metal when it is cooled down or to notice a steel beam/girder melting.

skyeagle409, on 21 February 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

What would have been the source since there is no reading indicating temperatures reached the melting point of steel?

There was no reading indicating the temperatures under the rubble and the source of the molten steel were not hydrocarbon fires.

Edited by Stundie, 21 February 2013 - 04:22 PM.

[skyeagle409]

Stundie, on 21 February 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

And I never said they were....lol

You implied they were!

Quote

There was no reading indicating the temperatures under the rubble and the source of the molten steel were not hydrocarbon fires.

Temperature readings of ground zero did not indicate temperatures in the range needed to melt steel.

Edited by skyeagle409, 21 February 2013 - 04:26 PM.

[Stundie]

skyeagle409, on 21 February 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

You implied they were!

No I never...lol

What I have implied is that the firefighters are more than capable of identifying the molten metal cause they would be the ones cooling it down and part of being a firefighter is understanding the source of fires or in this case, the molten metal which they said was steel.

The metallurgist is a pantomime debunk because you use it to discredit those who were at GZ because they were not metallugists because only a metallurgist as the capability of identifying once molten metal according to your logic.

Even though we have established that it's quite easy to identify the molten metal once it has cooled down and the fact that girders/beams are not made of aluminium.

Edited by Stundie, 21 February 2013 - 04:30 PM.

[skyeagle409]

Stundie, on 21 February 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

No I never...lo

Yes you did!!  After all, we can take a look back at your claims regarding what firefighters say they saw.

Quote

Even though we have established that it's quite easy to identify the molten metal once it has cooled down and the fact that girders/beams are not made of aluminium.

No one found molten steel, either at ground zero nor at the Fresh Kills landfill.

Edited by skyeagle409, 21 February 2013 - 04:40 PM.

[Gummug]

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[DONTEATUS]

Now Skyeagle You didnt tell me you were a Pot washer expert ? Man You learn something every day in here !
On your Six still !
Hey did you see we founf another Red Tail from Dallas ? He went to Booker-T Washington School ,and later was the First Blk Mail man in Dallas ! Really Kool !
See you Man !

[skyeagle409]

DONTEATUS, on 21 February 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

Now Skyeagle You didnt tell me you were a Pot washer expert ? Man You learn something every day in here !
On your Six still !
Hey did you see we founf another Red Tail from Dallas ? He went to Booker-T Washington School ,and later was the First Blk Mail man in Dallas ! Really Kool !
See you Man !

Yepper!! I am a jack of all a few trades in the world of aviation; from pilot, C-5 transport DCC, aircraft maintenance and overhaul, (airplanes and helicopters) and retired from the Air Force and Air Force civil service, not to mention having worked for a few major defense contractors.

Did I also mention that Colonel Warren--my current flying buddy--assisted in the making of "Red Tails?" And, that two names used in that movie, "Maurice" and "Smoky" were one of the same person whose niece was my vice president whom took over my position as president after I left California for my new assignment in Corpus Christi?

Edited by skyeagle409, 21 February 2013 - 10:31 PM.

[DONTEATUS]

Cheer`s Sky ! ITs Great weather to Go Flying !

[Stundie]

skyeagle409, on 21 February 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

Yes you did!!  After all, we can take a look back at your claims regarding what firefighters say they saw.

Please take a look at what the firefighter said they saw.

And show me the quote where I implied firefighters are metallurgists??

Cause I think evidently, that you are seeing things which don't exist...lol

skyeagle409, on 21 February 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

No one found molten steel, either at ground zero nor at the Fresh Kills landfill.

Yes they did and no matter how many times you spam the forum saying otherwise, you are wrong because evidence from those who were at GZ like professors to firefightes to clean up workers said they saw molten steel/beams/girders and not aluminium.