Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Was The X-Files almost shut down by the FBI ?


UM-Bot

Recommended Posts

Series creator Chris Carter claims that he once thought the real FBI was going to shut him down.

It was one of the most popular TV shows of the 90s and now thanks to the creation of six all-new episodes the adventures of FBI agents Mulder and Scully are once again in the limelight.

Read More: http://www.unexplain...down-by-the-fbi

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Sounds like paranoid schizophrenia.

Or a story to take attention away from the awfulness of the first show this season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I once talked (briefly) with a retired FBI special agent and asked him that if during his time with the FBI he had personally experienced anything "unexplained"

He smiled and said "Oh yes"

He did not elaborate nor did we have any further conversations.

But I thought his reaction to my question was at least interesting.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched the first episode and thought it was awesome. Does not surprise me that the FBI showed up. The whole episode basically discussed every single conspiracy theory all perfectly combined into a perfect MEGA conspiracy theory that actually makes a lot of sense. Can't wait for the other episode later tonight.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like paranoid schizophrenia.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least, that when the relevant documents are made public, that Chris Carter was under surveillance by the FBI. Considering the history of FBI surveillance, not surprising at all.

John Lennon, Jane Fonda, Charlie Chaplain, Princess Diana, Strom Thurmond, Martin Luther King Jr, Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix, Marilyn Monroe, almost everyone watched by Five Eyes whether NSA, FBI, MI5, CIA, etc.

With the long history of FBI surveillance over political views, it's more than likely. Carter started a show about the FBI concerning hidden FBI agendas and conspiracies. I would actually be shocked if they were NOT surveilling Carter.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I kind of have to agree with jungle... Gov agencies pretty much flag the beejeebers out of everything. I think the paranoia comes in when the guy thinks his show is sooooo flagged its gonna get shut down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I kind of have to agree with jungle... Gov agencies pretty much flag the beejeebers out of everything. I think the paranoia comes in when the guy thinks his show is sooooo flagged its gonna get shut down.

The FBI has been able to influence Hollywood since the 50s, this is well known and public knowledge. Just ask Zero Mostel, Burl Ives, Richard Attenborough, Danny Kaye, Dorothy Parker, Lena Horne, Gypsy Rose Lee, Burgess Meredith, Ruth Gordon, Eddie Albert, Barbara Bel Geddes, etc, etc.

Most of this historical archive is now public, it is part of the historical record. This proves that the FBI can kill a show, a career, a movie...with a few well placed phone calls.

I don't see paranoia really. You run a powerful government agency. A regular TV series airs critical of that agency and quickly grows in popularity. As the head of that agency you are responsible for the image of that agency. Keeping tabs on the show and considering pulling the plug if it goes too far? I don't see how that falls outside historical FBI behavior in this regard. Documented behavior.

Like I said, I'd be surprised if they didn't, it's a documented modus operandi of the FBI.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Sounds like paranoid schizophrenia. Or a story to take attention away from the awfulness of the first show this season." Yes because you are a doctor whos specialization is in this field and you know everything about schizophrenia right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The FBI has been able to influence Hollywood since the 50s, this is well known and public knowledge. Just ask Zero Mostel, Burl Ives, Richard Attenborough, Danny Kaye, Dorothy Parker, Lena Horne, Gypsy Rose Lee, Burgess Meredith, Ruth Gordon, Eddie Albert, Barbara Bel Geddes, etc, etc.

Most of this historical archive is now public, it is part of the historical record. This proves that the FBI can kill a show, a career, a movie...with a few well placed phone calls.

I don't see paranoia really. You run a powerful government agency. A regular TV series airs critical of that agency and quickly grows in popularity. As the head of that agency you are responsible for the image of that agency. Keeping tabs on the show and considering pulling the plug if it goes too far? I don't see how that falls outside historical FBI behavior in this regard. Documented behavior.

Like I said, I'd be surprised if they didn't, it's a documented modus operandi of the FBI.

To the bolded.. all right then, put your money where your mouth is. Provide the historical archive that is now public of the FBI shutting down shows please.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To the bolded.. all right then, put your money where your mouth is. Provide the historical archive that is now public of the FBI shutting down shows please.

Citizen Kane was a brutal portrait of newspaper magnate William Randolph Hearst. When Hearst learned through Hopper of Welles' film, he set out to protect his reputation by shutting the film down. Hollywood executives, led by Louis B. Mayer, rallied around Hearst, attempting to buy Citizen Kane in order to burn the negative. At the same time, Hearst's defenders moved to intimidate exhibitors into refusing to show the movie. Threats of blackmail, smears in the newspapers, and FBI investigations were used in the effort.

wrh.gifHearst's campaign was largely successful. It would be nearly a quarter-century before Citizen Kane was revived--before Welles would gain popular recognition for having created one of cinema's great masterpieces.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/kane2/

Always happy to oblige, thanks for giving me the excuse needed to post about one of my favorite flicks!

Edited by Jungleboogie
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Citizen Kane was a brutal portrait of newspaper magnate William Randolph Hearst. When Hearst learned through Hopper of Welles' film, he set out to protect his reputation by shutting the film down. Hollywood executives, led by Louis B. Mayer, rallied around Hearst, attempting to buy Citizen Kane in order to burn the negative. At the same time, Hearst's defenders moved to intimidate exhibitors into refusing to show the movie. Threats of blackmail, smears in the newspapers, and FBI investigations were used in the effort.

wrh.gifHearst's campaign was largely successful. It would be nearly a quarter-century before Citizen Kane was revived--before Welles would gain popular recognition for having created one of cinema's great masterpieces.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/kane2/

Always happy to oblige, thanks for giving me the excuse needed to post about one of my favorite flicks!

But that's about Hearst trying to shut down a movie, and allegedly there were threats of FBI investigations.. and the movie came out anyway. It's not about the FBI shutting anything down or killing anything. Citizen Kane got an avalanche of awards and nominations (and rightly so), and Wells went on to have a great and illustrious career.

Try again :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But that's about Hearst trying to shut down a movie, and allegedly there were threats of FBI investigations.. and the movie came out anyway. It's not about the FBI shutting anything down or killing anything. Citizen Kane got an avalanche of awards and nominations (and rightly so), and Wells went on to have a great and illustrious career.

Try again :)

Avalanche of awards? You are wrong. Welles got raped by the Oscars.

While the film was nominated for nine Academy Awards, it won just one, for best original screenplay, shared by Welles and Herman Mankiewicz. Welles, who had fallen out with the Academy, did not attend the ceremony, and each time his name was read out it was greeted with boos and hisses.

http://www.theguardi...dec/12/film.usa

The FBI helped to successfully bury Citizen Kane for 25 years. Welles had his next film, the Magnificent Ambersons, taken out of his control and he was forced to find work outside America.

Attacking Hearst and all that he represented within the American ruling elite, in McBride’s words, brought down “the wrath of a whole powerful network of right-wing red-baiters, including the FBI, the Dies committee, and the American Legion, all of which were allied with and supported by the vociferously anti-Communist publisher.” (p. 45)

j16-intv-hoov-250.jpgJ. Edgar Hoover

The FBI opened a file on Welles in April 1941, shortly before Citizen Kane’s release, and kept it active until 1956, when the filmmaker was safely semi-exiled in Europe. Hearst had been an ally and collaborator of J. Edgar Hoover since the early 1930s, supplying him with information on suspected Communists and fellow travelers in Hollywood.

McBride cites an FBI report’s conclusion about Welles’s extraordinary first film: “The evidence before us leads inevitably to the conclusion that the film Citizen Kane is nothing more than an extension of the Communist Party’s campaign to smear one of its most effective and consistent opponents in the United States.

https://www.wsws.org...6/mcb1-j16.html

What's this 'allegedly' rubbish? You seriously doubt PBS as a source? The FBI had been on Welles even before Citizen Kane, and long after Hearst's death. This is all public record. If you refuse to accept credible sources, well I can't really help the evidently uneducated.

Edited by Jungleboogie
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Avalanche of awards? Welles got raped by the Oscars.

While the film was nominated for nine Academy Awards, it won just one, for best original screenplay, shared by Welles and Herman Mankiewicz. Welles, who had fallen out with the Academy, did not attend the ceremony, and each time his name was read out it was greeted with boos and hisses.

http://www.theguardi...dec/12/film.usa

The FBI helped to successfully bury Citizen Kane for 25 years. Welles had his next film, the Magnificent Ambersons, taken out of his control and he was forced to find work in Europe.

Attacking Hearst and all that he represented within the American ruling elite, in McBride’s words, brought down “the wrath of a whole powerful network of right-wing red-baiters, including the FBI, the Dies committee, and the American Legion, all of which were allied with and supported by the vociferously anti-Communist publisher.” (p. 45)

j16-intv-hoov-250.jpgJ. Edgar Hoover

The FBI opened a file on Welles in April 1941, shortly before Citizen Kane’s release, and kept it active until 1956, when the filmmaker was safely semi-exiled in Europe. Hearst had been an ally and collaborator of J. Edgar Hoover since the early 1930s, supplying him with information on suspected Communists and fellow travelers in Hollywood.

McBride cites an FBI report’s conclusion about Welles’s extraordinary first film: “The evidence before us leads inevitably to the conclusion that the film Citizen Kane is nothing more than an extension of the Communist Party’s campaign to smear one of its most effective and consistent opponents in the United States.

https://www.wsws.org...6/mcb1-j16.html

What's this 'allegedly' rubbish? You seriously doubt PBS as a source? The FBI had been on Welles even before Citizen Kane, and long after Hearst's death. This is all public record. If you refuse to accept credible sources, well I can't really help the evidently uneducated.

Awards AND nominations.... It won one Oscar, two NBR awards, one top NYFCC and two second place NYFCC awards, and got eight Oscar nominations. Yes, that's a lot for one film.

And I'm not too sure about its burial for 25 years either. It was released in 41 and was played out in 42. It got re-released in 52 and Kane got a revival into television in 56.. And it's been acclaimed and put into top lists for decades since then.

It's not that I'm doubting PBS as a source of information. I do doubt that alleged investigations or the threat of such meant what your claim is- that of the FBI shutting it down. And yes, I do say alleged because it's not a legal confirmation. And even if there was FBI investigation, that is not the same thing as FBI shut down.

Face it, Citizen Kane was not shut down by the FBI. It was blackballed to an extent by Hearst using multiple tactics. The FBI might have already been watching Wells, and Hearst might have liked that, but it was not the FBI that blackballed the movie.

Oddly enough, a lot of the saga of this involves the main writer, Mankiewicz, and his dislike for Hearst after Hearst kicked him out of the social circle, and some of the ensuing pressure against RKO with Hearst threatening to expose Hollywoods scandals, including how heavily Jewish studio bosses were...with resulting pressure of the studios against RKO. Don't forget this movie came out during the tail end of the golden age, when preliminary anti-trust decision and the starting of questioning of the Hays code was going on, and studios were on the scramble to keep their stables in reign.... And of course the whole SAG action was starting to get heavy too, thanks Ronnie Regan, lol.

So no, Citizen Kane was not shut down by the FBI. There were a lot of things that slowed it down, and FBI might be a minor factor at best.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

so this scientist want us to believe he can tide both carotid arteries in no time so that the brain stays oxygeneted ?

Edited by qxcontinuum
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not that I'm doubting PBS as a source of information. I do doubt that alleged investigations or the threat of such meant what your claim is- that of the FBI shutting it down. And yes, I do say alleged because it's not a legal confirmation. And even if there was FBI investigation, that is not the same thing as FBI shut down.

Face it, Citizen Kane was not shut down by the FBI. It was blackballed to an extent by Hearst using multiple tactics. The FBI might have already been watching Wells, and Hearst might have liked that, but it was not the FBI that blackballed the movie.

So no, Citizen Kane was not shut down by the FBI. There were a lot of things that slowed it down, and FBI might be a minor factor at best.

Citizen Kane was suppressed by a coordinated effort of Hearst, the FBI, the American Legion, and certain politicians. It was not the work of a single individual. Blackballed/shutdown/suppressed, really are you splitting hairs that finely?

The fact is, the FBI helped suppress what is considered by many to the be the best American film, and by most in the top ten American films ever made. They also put Welles under surveillance for years and actively worked against him in concert with other agencies in order to destroy his reputation and career.

The FBI worked hand in hand with Dies, the American Legion, and Hearst to suppress Citizen Kane, and for a long time they were successful. Here is the actual unclassified report from the FBI, almost 200 pages of it. Showing them working against Orson Welles relentlessly:

*Note this is the actual unclassified FBI file on Orson Welles from 1941 to 1949 from the Federal Bureau website. If you do not like visiting such websites, DO NOT CLICK LINK!

https://vault.fbi.go...ge-orson-welles

I apologize I do not have a high enough FBI security clearance to fill in the redacted portions, but even if I did I wouldn't be allowed to reveal them anyways. There are supposedly more files on Orson Welles, but again I apologize that they remain classified.

I'm sure you will argue the document isn't genuine, the site is faked, and the redacted portions must read that Hoover and Welles agreed it was all a misunderstanding so they played golf with Bob Hope, got blind drunk and shared women's clothing.

Edited by Jungleboogie
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Citizen Kane was suppressed by a coordinated effort of Hearst, the FBI, the American Legion, and certain politicians. It was not the work of a single individual. Blackballed/shutdown/suppressed, really are you splitting hairs that finely?

The fact is, the FBI helped suppress what is considered by many to the be the best American film, and by most in the top ten American films ever made. They also put Welles under surveillance for years and actively worked against him in concert with other agencies in order to destroy his reputation and career.

The FBI worked hand in hand with Dies, the American Legion, and Hearst to suppress Citizen Kane, and for a long time they were successful. Here is the actual unclassified report from the FBI, almost 200 pages of it. Showing them working against Orson Welles relentlessly:

*Note this is the actual unclassified FBI file on Orson Welles from 1941 to 1949 from the Federal Bureau website. If you do not like visiting such websites, DO NOT CLICK LINK!

https://vault.fbi.go...ge-orson-welles

I apologize I do not have a high enough FBI security clearance to fill in the redacted portions, but even if I did I wouldn't be allowed to reveal them anyways. There are supposedly more files on Orson Welles, but again I apologize that they remain classified.

I'm sure you will argue the document isn't genuine, the site is faked, and the redacted portions must read that Hoover and Welles agreed it was all a misunderstanding so they played golf with Bob Hope, got blind drunk and shared women's clothing.

This is great information and all... But it does not indicate your original claim. You said the FBI can kill a show, movie, career... With just a few well placed phone calls. Not in conjunction with a bunch of other people, not helped someone, not investigated. You said the FBI with a few phone calls. Citizen Kane is not an example of killed by the FBI with a few phone calls. It was blackballed, which is totally different than killed- if it had been killed, it would no longer exist, period. This was done by a lot of people and agencies utilizing a lot of means, not just the FBI and a few phone calls.

You went from the claim of only the FBI, which is what the X-files guy was saying, only the FBI.... To moving the goalposts to include FBI helping out a whole bunch of others that were really a lot more instrumental than any FBI involvement. You went from the FBI kills with a few phone calls.... To moving the goalposts to FBI involvement helped temporarily slow down a movie.

And the document itself is great. Could you tell us where in the document it details investigating Wells with the intent of killing Citizen Kane please? Or that the FBI was investigating on Hearsts behalf? Or how with a few phone calls, the FBI killed Citizen Kane?

Honestly, I wish more people would bother providing evidence as good as you are providing. Because you are doing a damn fine job of providing in the face of scrutiny. Only problem is, it's not evidence supporting your original claim that I questioned.

So back to that... Can you provide an example of where the FBI killed a show, movie or career with just a few phone calls?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is great information and all... But it does not indicate your original claim. You said the FBI can kill a show, movie, career... With just a few well placed phone calls. Not in conjunction with a bunch of other people, not helped someone, not investigated. You said the FBI with a few phone calls. Citizen Kane is not an example of killed by the FBI with a few phone calls. It was blackballed, which is totally different than killed- if it had been killed, it would no longer exist, period. This was done by a lot of people and agencies utilizing a lot of means, not just the FBI and a few phone calls.

You went from the claim of only the FBI, which is what the X-files guy was saying, only the FBI.... To moving the goalposts to include FBI helping out a whole bunch of others that were really a lot more instrumental than any FBI involvement. You went from the FBI kills with a few phone calls.... To moving the goalposts to FBI involvement helped temporarily slow down a movie.

And the document itself is great. Could you tell us where in the document it details investigating Wells with the intent of killing Citizen Kane please? Or that the FBI was investigating on Hearsts behalf? Or how with a few phone calls, the FBI killed Citizen Kane?

Honestly, I wish more people would bother providing evidence as good as you are providing. Because you are doing a damn fine job of providing in the face of scrutiny. Only problem is, it's not evidence supporting your original claim that I questioned.

So back to that... Can you provide an example of where the FBI killed a show, movie or career with just a few phone calls?

Sorry the FBI didn't provide the actual phone transcripts of their surveillance and activities against Orson Welles or Citizen Kane. And if you had them, you would be jailed. This is the closest ya get.

No authorized surveillance or disruptive activities in the FBI is done without directives, meetings and yes, phone calls. Even a moron would know that. I don't think you are a moron, I think you are just being bull-headed here. You think the FBI would keep or release the actual transcripts of the phone calls or minutes of the meetings regarding surveillance and directives? As I said, my security clearance with the FBI is not so high as to access such things. Your demand to provide this only shows you are being bull-headed in this regard.

So now you don't deny the FBI helped kill Citizen Kane for a decade or more. That is progress. Now your complaint is splitting hairs again. The FBI didn't do it alone, they had help. So what? I never said the FBI acted alone. Agencies rarely do act alone.

It's called com-part-ment-al-i-za-tion. That way there is plausible deniability. This is what governmental agencies do to ensure secrecy. Undoubtedly the American Legion was the muscle, Hearst and his papers was the public attack and the FBI was the surveillance, intelligence and behind the scenes attack, the FBI also coordinates the attack.

This is why no one realized how massive the government surveillance/intimidation program was from the 40s to the early 70s until the documents were finally unclassified decades after the fact. com-part-ment-al-i-za-tion

I'm satisfied I proved my case. If it matters to you, read the file. I read it. It is alarming. It reads like a paranoid Nazi tracking the movements of a Jew for ten years with a bizarre obsession. It is almost 200 pages, so pour a coffee if you decide to read it.

I'm not going to waste the next two hours cutting and pasting the relevant portions to you so that you will only split hairs further. Splitting hairs is not something I will bother arguing about at this point.

Edited by Jungleboogie
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Assuming a phone call from the FBI did occur, why such a negative presumption? I attended a fairly recent FBI graduation at Quantico. Albeit Mr Comey, Director of the FBI, was addressing a rather small graduation, his commencement speech was quite straightforward, and I will attempt to paraphrase, ... the agency remain above reproach so that the public feels confident approaching them when the need arises; the charge of the special agent is maintaining that integrity. Again, assuming the phone call did occur, one might also presume the agency was simply trying to ascertain whether its ethical standards would be challenged so as diminish public confidence in a critical moment of need.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry the FBI didn't provide the actual phone transcripts of their surveillance and activities against Orson Welles or Citizen Kane. And if you had them, you would be jailed. This is the closest ya get.

No authorized surveillance or disruptive activities in the FBI is done without directives, meetings and yes, phone calls. Even a moron would know that. I don't think you are a moron, I think you are just being bull-headed here. You think the FBI would keep or release the actual transcripts of the phone calls or minutes of the meetings regarding surveillance and directives? As I said, my security clearance with the FBI is not so high as to access such things. Your demand to provide this only shows you are being bull-headed in this regard.

So now you don't deny the FBI helped kill Citizen Kane for a decade or more. That is progress. Now your complaint is splitting hairs again. The FBI didn't do it alone, they had help. So what? I never said the FBI acted alone. Agencies rarely do act alone.

It's called com-part-ment-al-i-za-tion. That way there is plausible deniability. This is what governmental agencies do to ensure secrecy. Undoubtedly the American Legion was the muscle, Hearst and his papers was the public attack and the FBI was the surveillance, intelligence and behind the scenes attack, the FBI also coordinates the attack.

This is why no one realized how massive the government surveillance/intimidation program was from the 40s to the early 70s until the documents were finally unclassified decades after the fact. com-part-ment-al-i-za-tion

I'm satisfied I proved my case. If it matters to you, read the file. I read it. It is alarming. It reads like a paranoid Nazi tracking the movements of a Jew for ten years with a bizarre obsession. It is almost 200 pages, so pour a coffee if you decide to read it.

I'm not going to waste the next two hours cutting and pasting the relevant portions to you so that you will only split hairs further. Splitting hairs is not something I will bother arguing about at this point.

I'm glad you feel satisfied you proved your case. It's good of you to have taken as much time as you have to prove something different than what your original case was. I'm not quite sure why you wanted to prove so hard that the FBI can flag a person, that was never in argument. It's a bummer that you could not prove that the FBI killed a movie, show, or career though. It goes back now to while the government flags a lot of stuff, Chris Carter is paranoid to think the FBI would shut X-Files down.

And I will still say that it's only allegedly that the FBI investigation may have played a role in Hearsts campaign against Citizen Kane. While you provided documentation that the FBI investigated Wells, you didn't provide legal documentation of the FBI using investigative leverage against the movie, or Hearst involvement with the FBI to kill the movie. The document does however make a brief comment that Citizen Kane was violently attacked by the Hearst Syndicate, with other commentary that Kane was thought to be communist in it's detail. Also oddly enough, the FBI vault has Randolf Hearst flagged as well in a five part series.

Good to know that a statement like "This proves that the FBI can kill a show, a career, a movie...with a few well placed phone calls." actually means the FBI does not work alone. And your version of FBI killing is really just kind of doing nothing to stop a films release, getting awards and nominations, with maybe slowing down after theater release for a couple years before allowing the movie to be re-released and also become entrenched in American media culture.

I think you did an excellent job at pointing out how the weight of Hollywood and media can come to bear against a movie, and how the FBI is willing to flag a person. And how detailed a flag can be, hundreds of pages against a person ain't no joke.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm just now catching up on this debate and find both sides well done . May I also add this was the times of " McCarthyism " http://www.authentic.../1-mccarthyism/ . A sad time in U.S. history .

Actually, McCarthyism shows up a few years after Citizen Kane- CK was 1941, and McCarthyism didn't start till after 1945. However, you are right in that the fears that lead into McCarthyism were already well in play, and that is part of the whole FBI flagging many members of Hollywood and Media, and part of the reason why they flagged both Wells and Hearst. Another interesting aspect of this time period was the shifting within Hollywood itself, including some serious changes in SAG that came about at the same time as McCarthyism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Scary times . And I wonder if history will equate what is happening now in the U.S. government as similar . We will see .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.