Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Mark 3.29 - The unforgiven


  • Please log in to reply
394 replies to this topic

#1    Beckys_Mom

Beckys_Mom

    Sarcastic Muppet..!

  • Member
  • 51,196 posts
  • Joined:01 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Ireland

  • "I hate pretentious people. I mean, what is the point in applying exorbitantly extensive vocabulary, it is just straightforwardly unnecessary".

Posted 20 February 2011 - 03:04 PM

Mark 3.29  - He who blasphems against the holy spirit, never has forgiviness and is guilty of eternal sin

( source...my bible.....lol)

Jesus said himself - ALL sins can be forgiven... so it looks more of a contradiction when Mark 3.29 says likewise as not all can be forgiven..............the word ALL means -> ALL ...

Jesus even forgave those who denied he was the son of god when he was stationed on the cross - forgive them father they know not what they do
So..............if you believe this is true...and from what it sounds...it is like the biggest sin of all, especially when it says it is not forgiven...

So my question is short and to the point --> Does this mean, all murderers, theives, rapists ect can be forgiven ...and non believers cannot?



Edited by Beckys_Mom, 20 February 2011 - 04:03 PM.

Posted ImageRAW Berris... Dare you enter?

If there's a heaven...I hope to hell I get there !

#2    third_eye

third_eye

    _ M Ġ ń Ř Ī Ş_

  • Member
  • 7,251 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malaysia

  • "Legio nomen mihi est, quia multi sumus"

    God has no religion ~ Mahatma Gandhi

Posted 20 February 2011 - 03:25 PM

Quote

Mark.3.29 : But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.

Quote

Mark.3.29, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin

Quote

So..............if you believe this is true...and from what it sounds...it is like the biggest sin of all, especially when it says it is not forgiven...

So my question is short and to the point --> Does this mean, all murderers, theives, rapists ect can be forgiven ...and non believers cannot?

To them it makes sense, since the Holy Spirit is the source of forgiveness
Even the all loving all forgiving Holy Spirit can't do anything because its deemed an eternal sin
Who made that distinction though is very much up to debate because here it's quite clear it's not the Holy Spirit

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#3    StarMountainKid

StarMountainKid

    Cheese

  • Member
  • 3,911 posts
  • Joined:17 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Star Mountain, Corporate States of America

  • We have problems because we stray from what is innocent and pure.

Posted 20 February 2011 - 03:27 PM

I think it means the Jewish/Christian God has the biggest ego in the neighborhood.

The acceptance of authority does not lead to intelligence.
A mind untouched by thought...the end of knowledge.
My credentials: http://www.unexplain...ic=87935&st=225

#4    Beckys_Mom

Beckys_Mom

    Sarcastic Muppet..!

  • Member
  • 51,196 posts
  • Joined:01 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Ireland

  • "I hate pretentious people. I mean, what is the point in applying exorbitantly extensive vocabulary, it is just straightforwardly unnecessary".

Posted 20 February 2011 - 03:41 PM

 third_eye, on 20 February 2011 - 03:25 PM, said:

To them it makes sense, since the Holy Spirit is the source of forgiveness
Even the all loving all forgiving Holy Spirit can't do anything because its deemed an eternal sin
Who made that distinction though is very much up to debate because here it's quite clear it's not the Holy Spirit

Jesus said - ALL sins can be forgiven....

I know that is also in the bible ...

So Jesus says - ALL sins can be forgiven... and yet Mark 3.29  contradicts jesus

Posted ImageRAW Berris... Dare you enter?

If there's a heaven...I hope to hell I get there !

#5    alphafemale

alphafemale

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 145 posts
  • Joined:24 Jul 2010
  • Gender:Female

  • Bog manje Hrvatska!

Posted 20 February 2011 - 03:41 PM

the subject of the passage is those who have denied Christ. The Scribes& Pharasies have condemned Jesus for healing the sick on their Sabbath, which is forbidden to do.As such they ssy "He is Satan! He does what He wil on the Sabbath".

So desperate to prove Jesus as the Christ they denied Him.

3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation. Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image
"He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness."
Jesus becomes angry at those who said that he had "an unclean spirit," so he announces the unforgivable sin: "blasphemy against the Holy Ghost."
Is there an unforgivable sin?
I deny the existence of the Holy Spirit
3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.


#6    Beckys_Mom

Beckys_Mom

    Sarcastic Muppet..!

  • Member
  • 51,196 posts
  • Joined:01 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Ireland

  • "I hate pretentious people. I mean, what is the point in applying exorbitantly extensive vocabulary, it is just straightforwardly unnecessary".

Posted 20 February 2011 - 03:45 PM

 alphafemale, on 20 February 2011 - 03:41 PM, said:

the subject of the passage is those who have denied Christ. The Scribes& Pharasies have condemned Jesus for healing the sick on their Sabbath, which is forbidden to do.As such they ssy "He is Satan! He does what He wil on the Sabbath".

So desperate to prove Jesus as the Christ they denied Him.

3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation. Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image
"He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness."
Jesus becomes angry at those who said that he had "an unclean spirit," so he announces the unforgivable sin: "blasphemy against the Holy Ghost."
Is there an unforgivable sin?
I deny the existence of the Holy Spirit
3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.


Jesus said all sins can be forgiven

Also...when jesus was on the cross...put there by many jews who claimed he was not the son of god, accussing him of - blasphemy...( when asked by Pontius Pilate who shall go free?) ..........jesus said - forgive them father they know not what they do



Posted ImageRAW Berris... Dare you enter?

If there's a heaven...I hope to hell I get there !

#7    third_eye

third_eye

    _ M Ġ ń Ř Ī Ş_

  • Member
  • 7,251 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malaysia

  • "Legio nomen mihi est, quia multi sumus"

    God has no religion ~ Mahatma Gandhi

Posted 20 February 2011 - 04:03 PM

I guess that puts the lid on the pot mom

Knows not what they do

blaspheming means they knew but do they know it's the eternal one ?
the one of no forgiveness ?

I think JC said that HE can forgive all sins,
the apostles have to approve it first

*edit* sleepy

Edited by third_eye, 20 February 2011 - 04:04 PM.

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#8    Beckys_Mom

Beckys_Mom

    Sarcastic Muppet..!

  • Member
  • 51,196 posts
  • Joined:01 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Ireland

  • "I hate pretentious people. I mean, what is the point in applying exorbitantly extensive vocabulary, it is just straightforwardly unnecessary".

Posted 20 February 2011 - 04:07 PM

 third_eye, on 20 February 2011 - 04:03 PM, said:

I guess that puts the lid on the pot mom

Knows not what they do

blaspheming means they knew but do they know it's the eternal one ?
the one of no forgiveness ?

I think JC said that HE can forgive all sins,
the apostles have to approve it first

*edit* sleepy

All sins mean ALL every last one...... so Jesus said ALL sins can be forgiven...then Mark 2.29 is a heck of a contradiction...

and when he says - they know not what they do... they did deny him as god... pretty much like what non belivers do... I see no difference... yet mark 3.29 says likewise

Posted ImageRAW Berris... Dare you enter?

If there's a heaven...I hope to hell I get there !

#9    Star of the Sea

Star of the Sea

    Pienso en ti siempre

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,850 posts
  • Joined:10 Jan 2010
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:England

  • 'The light of the world'

Posted 20 February 2011 - 04:35 PM

 Becky, on 20 February 2011 - 03:04 PM, said:

Mark 3.29  - He who blasphemes against the holy spirit, never has forgiveness and is guilty of eternal sin

( source...my bible.....lol)

Jesus said himself - ALL sins can be forgiven... so it looks more of a contradiction when Mark 3.29 says likewise as not all can be forgiven..............the word ALL means -> ALL ...

Jesus even forgave those who denied he was the son of god when he was stationed on the cross - forgive them father they know not what they do
So..............if you believe this is true...and from what it sounds...it is like the biggest sin of all, especially when it says it is not forgiven...

So my question is short and to the point --> Does this mean, all murderers, thieves, rapists ect can be forgiven ...and non believers cannot?



Hi BM,

This is from John Paul II explaining blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, however I do feel at the moment of death repentance may occur in one's own thoughts and I'm sure the good Lord in his Divine Mercy will hear that plea.

John Paul II, Dominum et Vivificantem 46:

Why is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit unforgivable? How should this blasphemy be understood? Saint Thomas Aquinas replies that it is a question of a sin that is "unforgivable by its very nature", insofar as it excludes the elements through which the forgiveness of sin takes place.

According to such an exegesis, "blasphemy" does not properly consist in offending against the Holy Spirit in words; it consists rather in the refusal to accept the salvation which God offers to man through the Holy Spirit, working through the power of the Cross. If man rejects the "convincing concerning sin" which comes from the Holy Spirit and which has the power to save, he also rejects the "coming" of the Counselorthat "coming" which was accomplished in the Paschal Mystery, in union with the redemptive power of Christ's Blood: the Blood which "purifies the conscience from dead works".

We know that the result of such a purification is the forgiveness of sins. Therefore, whoever rejects the Spirit and the Blood remains in "dead works", in sin. And the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit consists precisely in the radical refusal to accept this forgiveness of which he is the intimate giver and which presupposes the genuine conversion which he brings about in the conscience. If Jesus says that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven either in this life or in the next, it is because this "non-forgiveness" is linked, as to its cause, to "non-repentance", in other words to the radical refusal to be converted. This means the refusal to come to the sources of Redemption, which nevertheless remain "always" open in the economy of salvation in which the mission of the Holy Spirit is accomplished. The Spirit has infinite power to draw from these sources: "he will take what is mine", Jesus said. In this way he brings to completion in human souls the work of the Redemption accomplished by Christ, and distributes its fruits. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, then, is the sin committed by the person who claims to have a "right" to persist in evilin any sin at alland who thus rejects Redemption. One closes oneself up in sin, thus making impossible one's conversion, and consequently the remission of sins, which one considers not essential or not important for one's life. This is a state of spiritual ruin, because blasphemy against the Holy Spirit does not allow one to escape from one's self-imposed imprisonment and open oneself to the divine sources of the purification of consciences and of the remission of sins."



"Love one another as I have loved you" John 15:9-17

#10    third_eye

third_eye

    _ M Ġ ń Ř Ī Ş_

  • Member
  • 7,251 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malaysia

  • "Legio nomen mihi est, quia multi sumus"

    God has no religion ~ Mahatma Gandhi

Posted 20 February 2011 - 04:36 PM

 Beckys_Mom, on 20 February 2011 - 04:07 PM, said:

All sins mean ALL every last one...... so Jesus said ALL sins can be forgiven...then Mark 2.29 is a heck of a contradiction...

and when he says - they know not what they do... they did deny him as god... pretty much like what non belivers do... I see no difference... yet mark 3.29 says likewise

on its own mark 3.29 reads as a contradiction
in the context of what is before and after it is not as alphafemale pointed out

: against the Holy Ghost / against is the pivot here

Quote

those who said that he had "an unclean spirit,"
as in accuse, so "deny" probably is not an entirely accurate definition of blaspheme here

Accuse the Holy Ghost as satan
Accuse the Holy Ghost as someones uncle

same thing  
so saying God isn't God isn't inclusive in the "eternal sin" folder

I'll have to ask my sister but then,
she'll probably go flipping through the bible and quotes the same quotes again .. so ... :lol:

that's the best I know mom, sorry

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#11    Beckys_Mom

Beckys_Mom

    Sarcastic Muppet..!

  • Member
  • 51,196 posts
  • Joined:01 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Ireland

  • "I hate pretentious people. I mean, what is the point in applying exorbitantly extensive vocabulary, it is just straightforwardly unnecessary".

Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:28 PM

 third_eye, on 20 February 2011 - 04:36 PM, said:

on its own mark 3.29 reads as a contradiction
in the context of what is before and after it is not as alphafemale pointed out

: against the Holy Ghost / against is the pivot here


as in accuse, so "deny" probably is not an entirely accurate definition of blaspheme here

Accuse the Holy Ghost as satan
Accuse the Holy Ghost as someones uncle

same thing  
so saying God isn't God isn't inclusive in the "eternal sin" folder

I'll have to ask my sister but then,
she'll probably go flipping through the bible and quotes the same quotes again .. so ... :lol:

that's the best I know mom, sorry

I already know what the chapter is about...I was once christian............still have a bible and I have not forgotten how to read it LOL ...........The people at the time beofre he was stationed on the cross were taunting him denying him as god and believed he was possessed....they accussed jesus of blasphemy...

But see you have not shown how it is not a contradiction............it does mean anyone who denies him as god and accusses him of being pocessed....( talk about start as you mean to go on, many christians have done this to so many people over decades lol) .....fact is....... it is still a sin that is said never can be forgiven...and it contradicts the words by Jesus himself that says - ALL sins can be forgiven

You can twist and turn it sideways ...swish it around over and over... you still cannot shake the contradiction



Edited by Beckys_Mom, 20 February 2011 - 08:32 PM.

Posted ImageRAW Berris... Dare you enter?

If there's a heaven...I hope to hell I get there !

#12    third_eye

third_eye

    _ M Ġ ń Ř Ī Ş_

  • Member
  • 7,251 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malaysia

  • "Legio nomen mihi est, quia multi sumus"

    God has no religion ~ Mahatma Gandhi

Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:40 PM

 Beckys_Mom, on 20 February 2011 - 08:28 PM, said:

I already know what the chapter is about...I was once christian............still have a bible and I have not forgotten how to read it LOL ...........

But see you have not shown how it is not a contradiction............it does mean anyone who denies him as god and accusses him of being pocessed....( talk about start as you mean to go on, many christians have done this to so many people over decades lol) .....fact is....... it is still a sin that is said never can be forgiven...and it contradicts the words by Jesus himself that says - ALL sins can be forgiven

You can twist and turn it sideways ...swish it around over and over... you still cannot shake the contradiction



I apologise if my post smell of insulting your knowledge of the chapter, was not intentional,
was sleepy but that is a poor excuse, please forgive :D

I agree its contradictory but just not to the degree that it contradicts everything
kinda like saying "I love cheesecake but I cant stand cheese" :lol:

"You can twist and turn it sideways ...swish it around over and over... you still cannot shake the contradiction"
No I can't nor do I dare to attempt it else all I get is something of a foamy contradiction  :unsure2: :P

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#13    Beckys_Mom

Beckys_Mom

    Sarcastic Muppet..!

  • Member
  • 51,196 posts
  • Joined:01 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Ireland

  • "I hate pretentious people. I mean, what is the point in applying exorbitantly extensive vocabulary, it is just straightforwardly unnecessary".

Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:44 PM

 third_eye, on 20 February 2011 - 08:40 PM, said:

I apologise if my post smell of insulting your knowledge of the chapter, was not intentional,
was sleepy but that is a poor excuse, please forgive :D

I agree its contradictory but just not to the degree that it contradicts everything
kinda like saying "I love cheesecake but I cant stand cheese" :lol:

"You can twist and turn it sideways ...swish it around over and over... you still cannot shake the contradiction"
No I can't nor do I dare to attempt it else all I get is something of a foamy contradiction  :unsure2: :P
No you have not insulted me...I am not one of these that cry - ATTACK..YOU'RE ATTACKING MY BELIEFS... kind of folk  lol :lol:

I didn't say it contradicts everything......I said it does however contradicts the words of Jesus in ref to sins and forgiviness  <-- that is the entire point

More context trains could well arrive in the station shortly   lol

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 20 February 2011 - 08:50 PM.

Posted ImageRAW Berris... Dare you enter?

If there's a heaven...I hope to hell I get there !

#14    third_eye

third_eye

    _ M Ġ ń Ř Ī Ş_

  • Member
  • 7,251 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malaysia

  • "Legio nomen mihi est, quia multi sumus"

    God has no religion ~ Mahatma Gandhi

Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:54 PM

it's how the weight of the sin is leveled isn't it ?

that "judge not lest ye be judged" "cast the first stone"

sometimes it's a big no no, other times it's "I cast ye to hell" "damnation is thy reward"

it's not a tourist guide map to heaven,
I believe JC is open for discussion with open hearts,
that's why many loves the fella,

the apostles are a wee bit over protective at times but then a lot of the flock were being tossed to lions for fun,
maybe they were traumatised

Quote

More context trains could well arrive in the station shortly
I can the whistle and rumble already :lol:

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#15    Beckys_Mom

Beckys_Mom

    Sarcastic Muppet..!

  • Member
  • 51,196 posts
  • Joined:01 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Ireland

  • "I hate pretentious people. I mean, what is the point in applying exorbitantly extensive vocabulary, it is just straightforwardly unnecessary".

Posted 20 February 2011 - 09:03 PM

 third_eye, on 20 February 2011 - 08:54 PM, said:

it's how the weight of the sin is leveled isn't it ?

that "judge not lest ye be judged" "cast the first stone"



A sin is a sin...it is written... many christians will say  (and have said on here) that they do not differ

Fact is it's still a  yea but no but yea but contradiction :w00t:

PS you seem a nice chappie...welcome to the forum  <-- the late arrival of the BM welcome express...haha

PPS I love that line - Judge not lest ye be judged  <-- and christians believe they own the right to ..........well judge :lol:

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 20 February 2011 - 09:04 PM.

Posted ImageRAW Berris... Dare you enter?

If there's a heaven...I hope to hell I get there !




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users