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Question about bullys


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#16    Jinxdom

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:37 AM

Just need your child to fight back,  I'd suggest something more along the lines of Judo or Aikido then karate though(Though Jujitsu is by far the best of them. Better balance of skills imho). Don't be too hard on your child if he do in fact get suspended because of defending himself.(It's not supposed to be a punishment really it's more of a cool down time because let's face it kids will pressure others to save face/reputation). Showing strength is very much the first step. Let it be known that whatever the bully wants that it will not be worth the trouble to get it from your child.

A lot of problems also stems from what type of background the bully is from. Each different background has a whole slew of different reasons why they pick on somebody else and each need to be resolved in different ways. It's not a simple solution. A member of a group bullying will be more likely to strike again if embarrassed, so you'd have to fight the leader of it. Member of a sports team get the coach involved. I can list types all day long each requiring a different finesse to deal with. Find out more about the bully, the easier it will be to solve the problem.


#17    libstaK

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:41 AM

Try something creative.  Get your son to draw a picture of what a "bully" looks like.  Then get down to ridiculing - something like "ugh bullies are really butt ass ugly little monsters aren't they, if that was a bug I would stomp with my shoe it is so ugly".  And "gee, you wouldn't want to get too close to something that horrible, it like a walking disease.  If you can get him to laugh at how ludicrous a creature a "bully" is then he will think very little of this other boy and not be so emotionally affected by his behaviour perhaps?

I remember once in school when I was bullied I lashed out with "your balls are so small you could roll them under a pregnant ant".  The class broke into hysterics and the bully went bright red.

Edited by libstaK, 14 February 2013 - 10:43 AM.

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#18    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:44 AM

View Postbacca, on 12 February 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

Does anyone know where I can find information about preventing bullying, or what consequences there should be. All I can find is to have the bully read a book or tell a story about being a good friend. I really need to know if there are any ways to help the child stop being bullied and I can't find anything.

Hi Bacca

Several things can cause a child to be bullied -
1. Parenting - Some parents are controlling, force their views onto their children and undermine their attempts to stand up for themselves. Unfortunately this trains the child not to assert their rights in social situations when they encounter bullies so they get bullied.
2. Attitude - Some children have a bad attitude towards others which attracts bullying onto themselves.
3. Jealousy - Some children bully others who make them feel inferior. Is your child attractive, confident, popular, tall, from a wealthy family, intelligent, etc?

Correct any attitude problems if they apply and teach your child to stand up for themselves - 'I dont like the way you're treating me and I'm not going to put up with it' then if it continues complain to a teacher. The word will soon get around that they wont accept bullying and it will stop.

I cant really advise you to tell your child to kick 10 shades out of them on a forum so I wont.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 14 February 2013 - 10:45 AM.


#19    Yamato

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:51 AM

Get your attorney to call the Principal's office and issue a warning of a lawsuit against the school if your child is hit in the head again since they have been duly warned by you yet remain unresponsive, and would be deemed guilty of negligence of the problem after you brought it to your attention.   If your son was hurt, that could spell major damages in court.

The bully's grades shouldn't have anything to do with the school's treatment or protection of that bully.  Conversely the school shouldn't say: "Well since his marks are low, we'll do something for you."

Ugly1 has the right idea to treat your son specifically.   His quote that "Kids prey on the kids that don't want to fight. If you are willing to fight, kids want no part of that at all. Your kid will have to fight at least one time to keep from being bullied." is spot on.   It's probably asking a lot of any mother to have her son follow that advice but bullying is a difficult problem and it requires an unpleasant and risky solution.   He shouldn't approach the bully in front of other students and attack him, but wait for the bullying to begin, ideally in the presence of a friend, and then let the sucker punch fly.   The reason it's very difficult to punch a bully and hurt them is because the victim is afraid to get in close.   Afraid of physical contact in general.   Your son will have to stand very close to the bully after practicing his punches.  One solid punch to the nose will end his nightmare, even if he has to lose one fight in the process.  Beating up a bully or winning a fight isn't necessary.  Simply fighting back and dealing some damage is.  Kids who are known to fight back aren't the victims that get picked on, the bullies always look for easier prey.

Edited by Yamato, 14 February 2013 - 11:56 AM.

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#20    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:00 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 14 February 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Try something creative.  Get your son to draw a picture of what a "bully" looks like.  Then get down to ridiculing - something like "ugh bullies are really butt ass ugly little monsters aren't they, if that was a bug I would stomp with my shoe it is so ugly".  And "gee, you wouldn't want to get too close to something that horrible, it like a walking disease.  If you can get him to laugh at how ludicrous a creature a "bully" is then he will think very little of this other boy and not be so emotionally affected by his behaviour perhaps?

I remember once in school when I was bullied I lashed out with "your balls are so small you could roll them under a pregnant ant".  The class broke into hysterics and the bully went bright red.
that's so damn creative line ! lool

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#21    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:12 PM

View Postbacca, on 12 February 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

The problem is that this other child has been bullying my son all year. I have talked to the school guidance department, had him put into a program with a psychologist at school etc. All to help him learn to deal with bullying etc. The school has been aware of the prob all year and they have done things like peer mediation. Yesterday the child physically pushed my son, he pushed back and ended up getting punched in the head. And the school suspended him for there days. I do not feel that my child is safe and I am not pleased but I can find nothing about how to deal with the situation other than to tell my son to deal with it, walk away and know that the school won't do anything either. I'm so mad I don't know what to do at this point....Hence I'm hoping that someone knew of some options :(

Have you times, dates and details of incidences?
Is your child in anyway causing the bullying?

Assuming your child isnt causing the bullying then issue a complaint against the school to your local education authority. Then you'll see action taken pretty sharpish once the head masters job is on the line.


#22    Mike D boy

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:52 PM

Bullying on school campuses went on for generations, but only in the 2000s and today the nation made bullying a hot button issue that badly needed to get addressed. I won't support "fighting back" because with violence: two wrongs don't make a right. For children to encounter techniques of bullying is how to stand up peacefully with wise words to discourage bullying without having to respond in a confrontational manner.

School policies should discourage bullying and I'm sure most of them already do, they need to be enforced and remind the students on bullying is not acceptable, because they get hurt and cause emotional scars on victims. If the anti-bullying rules are broken, the taunted should report to their teachers and/or the principal to handle the situation.

Edited by Tsa-La-Gie Oyate, 14 February 2013 - 02:52 PM.

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#23    White Crane Feather

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 04:49 AM

View PostUgly1, on 14 February 2013 - 03:23 AM, said:

The guy that mentioned Karate Class has it right. I would actually avoid 99% of karate schools like the plague. What you need to teach your son is proper punching techniques as well as get a punching bag and teach the kid to punch without breaking his hands. I dealt with bullying a lot growing up. I used to be afraid to fight. I wasn't afraid of the fight itself but losing the fight in front of people is what bothered me. What you need to do is get your kid to punch that kid square  in the nose as hard as he can when he gets back to school. Take the week suspension and life will be great throughout the rest of school. Kids prey on the kids that don't want to fight. If you are willing to fight, kids want no part of that at all. Your kid will have to fight at least one time to keep from being bullied.

I do not encourage violence but sometimes it is necessary. Teach your kid to fight, then let that kid put the other kid in check. Not only will it help your kid, but it will teach the bully that bullying is not such a great idea. You can be an overprotective parent in that aspect but you can count on the bullying continuing. You need to let your child show some strength.
This is partially correct. But also grievously wrong. At some point this is going to be psycologically damaging for your child and standing up for himself will be the only option. Schools are interested in protecting themselves, so should you follow their attitude and protect yourself.

Depending on how old your child is punching a hard surface like a head can and will severely damage your child's hand and wrist. A palm strike or hammer fist is a Much better option, but engaging the bully physically could be a horriible mistake, your child may not be psycologically ready to fight and the bully might be. This could lead to a serious beating for your child. This is not the movies, the underdog rarely wins.  Ugly is right, most martial arts schools will not start teaching your child to fight right away ( some never do, even if they did it can take quit a while to psychologically prepare your child for combat) I should know I own one ;). In terms of martial arts, you can probably find a decent jujitsu school in your area. With the proper instruction and practice your child could use simple control techniques like a scarf hold or mount, to pin his attacker instead of strike him. The benefit of jujitsu is that you can start training physically and realistically with different body types imeadiatly.

Violence should be the last option, but your child has every right to defend his body. If you have exhausted all your options your child needs jujitsu or wrestling. My course of action next would be to take the other family out for dinner and remain unemotional, then if it dosnt stop jujitsu would be the answer. In my opinion all kids should learn it anyway. He will need it again.

I own a martial arts school I get these issues come to me all the time. If you pm me your town and area, I'd be happy to skim through your area for the right school and offer a recommendation. I grew up in martial arts I can tell the good from the bad and yes even the ugly?



"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#24    Ugly1

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:02 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 16 February 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

This is partially correct. But also grievously wrong. At some point this is going to be psycologically damaging for your child and standing up for himself will be the only option. Schools are interested in protecting themselves, so should you follow their attitude and protect yourself.

Depending on how old your child is punching a hard surface like a head can and will severely damage your child's hand and wrist. A palm strike or hammer fist is a Much better option, but engaging the bully physically could be a horriible mistake, your child may not be psycologically ready to fight and the bully might be. This could lead to a serious beating for your child. This is not the movies, the underdog rarely wins.  Ugly is right, most martial arts schools will not start teaching your child to fight right away ( some never do, even if they did it can take quit a while to psychologically prepare your child for combat) I should know I own one ;). In terms of martial arts, you can probably find a decent jujitsu school in your area. With the proper instruction and practice your child could use simple control techniques like a scarf hold or mount, to pin his attacker instead of strike him. The benefit of jujitsu is that you can start training physically and realistically with different body types imeadiatly.

Violence should be the last option, but your child has every right to defend his body. If you have exhausted all your options your child needs jujitsu or wrestling. My course of action next would be to take the other family out for dinner and remain unemotional, then if it dosnt stop jujitsu would be the answer. In my opinion all kids should learn it anyway. He will need it again.

I own a martial arts school I get these issues come to me all the time. If you pm me your town and area, I'd be happy to skim through your area for the right school and offer a recommendation. I grew up in martial arts I can tell the good from the bad and yes even the ugly?

I would avoid this post like the plague. I really hope you are not teaching what you are writing at this school. First of all, you do not want to use a palm strike. The palm strike is effective when being used to the nose. We do not want your kid using a palm strike on this kids nose as it could push the kids nose into his brain killing him. Hammer fists? I really hope you are not serious. A Hammer fist is a "punch" that is used on a grounded opponent and notorious for breaking hands.  A Hammer fist  is where you make a fist, and do a hammering action onto your victim. Picture this in your mind everyone.  Make a fist, then raise it over your head, raining down like a hammer to whatever object landing with the Ext. Carpi Unlaris, and 5th metacarpus. Striking an object this way is notorious for breaking the bones of the striker. Considering that this is a child enforces this point even more so as your childs bones are no where near being developed to what they would need to be to strike like this.  A child needs to punch correctly. Your pointer finger, and your middle finger knuckles ought to be the knuckles landing in the punch considering you only throw with a 4 knuckle punch. If you know the technique you can actually use your thumb as a third knuckle in that punch which would be the most correct but uncommon way to see the punch thrown. Your child needs  to realize speed x torque = power when it comes to punching so do not worry about being small or strong but rather being fast.

Now for the JiuJitsu part. I think that is a terrible idea as well. JiuJitsu is a great art for fighting. This martial art focus's on turning your opponents momentum against them making it your momentum or leverage. This is a "Ground fighting art". Say your child goes to the ground with a bully and starts to roll around and say goes for an armbar, while on concrete he could easily be lifted and dropped on his head. Say he went for a triangle choke the same could be said.  Here is a video of that exact event happening with actual trained and seasoned fighters. http://www.break.com...ght-Ever-471005
Now if this can happen to a trained fighter than you can bet that it can and would happen to a kid that has been training Jiu-Jitsu for a few weeks to months. I don't think we want to wait that long for the problem to correct itself.

If you have the option and are seriously considering correcting this problem then you need to find a heavy bag for the kid to punch on and learn proper punching techniques, or take him to a Kickboxing Gym. These boys will teach you how to fight on your feet and you begin to learn technique that will be effective immediately.

I personally come from a Karate background so me telling you to go to a  Kickboxing gym is like a strike to my karate pride. Hah! The problem with Karate gyms is that they are so watered down with bull corn that you may be getting taught complete b.s. Fortunately I was trained by my father who was trained in Japan directly under Grandmaster Hohan Soken. Soken is about as legit as you can get when it comes to Japanese Karate considering his family is the family that almost all karate systems know today stem from. I am not trying to brag or boast about this I simply want you to understand that I know what I am talking about. I have not been trained at a McDojo that will tell a young man to hammerfist and break his hands in a fight.


#25    cultanorak

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:35 PM

Unfortunately we live in a society that thrives on bullying particulary in schools as I was bullied when I was that age as well. The bullying seems to be widespread but nothing ever seems to be done about it and people just accept bullying (the bullies are usually the confident, competitive and popular ones so no one will say anything to them) and then people have the nerve to act all outraged and surprised when a bullied kid shoots shoots the place up.

Bullying in all its forms should be completely illegalised.


#26    White Crane Feather

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:19 AM

View PostUgly1, on 17 February 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:



I would avoid this post like the plague. I really hope you are not teaching what you are writing at this school. First of all, you do not want to use a palm strike. The palm strike is effective when being used to the nose. We do not want your kid using a palm strike on this kids nose as it could push the kids nose into his brain killing him. Hammer fists? I really hope you are not serious. A Hammer fist is a "punch" that is used on a grounded opponent and notorious for breaking hands.  A Hammer fist  is where you make a fist, and do a hammering action onto your victim. Picture this in your mind everyone.  Make a fist, then raise it over your head, raining down like a hammer to whatever object landing with the Ext. Carpi Unlaris, and 5th metacarpus. Striking an object this way is notorious for breaking the bones of the striker. Considering that this is a child enforces this point even more so as your childs bones are no where near being developed to what they would need to be to strike like this.  A child needs to punch correctly. Your pointer finger, and your middle finger knuckles ought to be the knuckles landing in the punch considering you only throw with a 4 knuckle punch. If you know the technique you can actually use your thumb as a third knuckle in that punch which would be the most correct but uncommon way to see the punch thrown. Your child needs  to realize speed x torque = power when it comes to punching so do not worry about being small or strong but rather being fast.

Now for the JiuJitsu part. I think that is a terrible idea as well. JiuJitsu is a great art for fighting. This martial art focus's on turning your opponents momentum against them making it your momentum or leverage. This is a "Ground fighting art". Say your child goes to the ground with a bully and starts to roll around and say goes for an armbar, while on concrete he could easily be lifted and dropped on his head. Say he went for a triangle choke the same could be said.  Here is a video of that exact event happening with actual trained and seasoned fighters. http://www.break.com...ght-Ever-471005
Now if this can happen to a trained fighter than you can bet that it can and would happen to a kid that has been training Jiu-Jitsu for a few weeks to months. I don't think we want to wait that long for the problem to correct itself.

If you have the option and are seriously considering correcting this problem then you need to find a heavy bag for the kid to punch on and learn proper punching techniques, or take him to a Kickboxing Gym. These boys will teach you how to fight on your feet and you begin to learn technique that will be effective immediately.

I personally come from a Karate background so me telling you to go to a  Kickboxing gym is like a strike to my karate pride. Hah! The problem with Karate gyms is that they are so watered down with bull corn that you may be getting taught complete b.s. Fortunately I was trained by my father who was trained in Japan directly under Grandmaster Hohan Soken. Soken is about as legit as you can get when it comes to Japanese Karate considering his family is the family that almost all karate systems know today stem from. I am not trying to brag or boast about this I simply want you to understand that I know what I am talking about. I have not been trained at a McDojo that will tell a young man to hammerfist and break his hands in a fight.
But you would  tell a child to punch!!!!!! Do you have any clue how delicate a child's metacarpals are? do you have any friggin clue what a boxer's fracture is? Do you know what heavy bag training will do to a child's cardilige in their wrists? Especially being trained by dear old dad in the garage. Do you know why professional fighters wrap theirs wrists and protect their knuckles with gloves? Do you know how long it takes to teach a child to punch PROPERLY? There is a way to do it but your advice is completely uneducated, dangerous, typical and misinformed.   No offense ugly you have no clue what you are talking about. A hammer fist can come from from the side striking a jaw or a nose, it's very simple to visualize. its not "ground and pound". The hand is ten times more stable in a hammering motion.  Nor would you EVER EVER Instruct a child to use an arm bar or triangle choke in a school yard fight!!!! There are a number of simple judo and jujitsu pinns that don't involve shutting the flow of blood off to another child's brain or attacking his joints!!!

"We do not want your kid using a palm strike on this kids nose as it could push the kids nose into his brain killing him"

Hahahaha This says it all my friend, you have been watching to many movies. Here genus I'll let Somone else educate you.

http://www.fighttips...-fact-myth.html


I have grown up in martial arts schools, kickboxing gyms, and jujitsu schools, it's been my life since I was 8 years old. An yes I have been in fights before and and I have suffered two boxers fractures as a teenager. The result is that my right hand cannot grip as good as it should. Your advice is setting this person up for some bad news. Some people go down after a sucker punch. It's not the movies genius, an aggressive bully is likely to come back in a red rage and pound the poor kid. He better be prepared to pinn him and control him on the ground because that's where it's headed I can almost guarantee you that. A simple scarf hold taught by some body who ACTUALLY knows how to train children will work wonders.  All martial arts have their good and bad points yes even your karate, but I'm not going to get into a p***ing contest with you over credentials. It's what I do for a living, and I detest the Mcdojo they give all of us a bad name, and yes, their advice would be almost as bad as yours.



Edited by Seeker79, 18 February 2013 - 05:26 AM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#27    White Crane Feather

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:30 AM

Back to op. my offer still stands. If you cannot find the proper solution right now, a good martial arts school will prepare him for the future.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#28    White Crane Feather

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:42 AM

View Postyearofthehater, on 17 February 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

Unfortunately we live in a society that thrives on bullying particulary in schools as I was bullied when I was that age as well. The bullying seems to be widespread but nothing ever seems to be done about it and people just accept bullying (the bullies are usually the confident, competitive and popular ones so no one will say anything to them) and then people have the nerve to act all outraged and surprised when a bullied kid shoots shoots the place up.

Bullying in all its forms should be completely illegalised.
Yes it should. I have worked on the high school level in my community to develop groups of popular kids that are sympathetic to bring bullied kids into their folds and stand up for them socially. It works exceedingly well. Then the older kids train the younger freshmen comeing in and the system continues.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#29    Lilly

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:53 PM

Both of my kids studied martial arts, my son is currently a 2nd degree black belt. When he entered High School he was working on his brown belt and was a very low key kind of kid. Well, this clique of upper class boys was always picking on the Freshmen boys. Three of them had taken to pulling down the younger boy's sweat pants as they lined up for gym class (no teacher present until the bell rang). They would circle behind the line and choose out a victim (3 against 1) and de-pant the victim. They pulled this on my son and he absolutely 'cleaned their clocks'...took down the kid that grabbed his pants, elbowed another in the stomach, and grabbed the remaining kid by the ears. Needless to say, they all fled before the teacher showed up. None of them ever picked on my son again, no one bothered him through High School period.

So, I do think it's true that a show of force is often the only thing that will suffice to stop some bullies.

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#30    Michelle

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:31 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 18 February 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

Yes it should. I have worked on the high school level in my community to develop groups of popular kids that are sympathetic to bring bullied kids into their folds and stand up for them socially. It works exceedingly well. Then the older kids train the younger freshmen comeing in and the system continues.

We did the same when I was in school, but it was organized totally by the students. We made it clear it wasn't cool to bully and essentially made them outcasts until they stopped.

On the up side I'm glad to see more common sense being proposed...

http://www.chattanoo...-Tennessee.aspx

Professional Educators of Tennessee (PET) announces their support for the recently-introduced Student Self-Defense Bill (Senate Bill 113/House Bill 860). PET, a non-partisan teacher association headquartered in Franklin, Tennessee, believes the proposed legislation brings common sense back into the zero-tolerance debate that has tied the hands of principals, schools and local school districts across the state.





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