Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Pres. Obama's ISIS speech


RavenHawk

Recommended Posts

I’m surprised that no one has opened a thread ripping it yet, so let me start it off. Since this was more of his usual political campaign speech rather than strategy in the Middle East, it seems to be more appropriate here.

ISIS is not Islamic? WTF! If it is not Islamic that what is that Black Flag all about? It is a black standard with the Seal of Mohammed and the Shahada above it in white. They are invoking the conquest strategy that Mohammed used, which means I see ISIS going after Baghdad just as Mohammed went after Mecca. And with this new Iraqi government, they will not be able to resist ISIS and the city will fall. I’d be surprised if ISIS isn’t already entrenched in the new government. But ISIS will offer clemency to the inhabitants. Most Muslims will recognize this as what Mohammed did with the people of Mecca. Instead of slaughtering them, they will spare their lives, now that they have established the punishment for rejecting them.

This will draw Muslims from all over to expand the ranks of ISIS. It may even attract the Iraqi Shia? There is no love lost between Arab and Persian. Shia Arabs would rather remain Arab. And once they have Baghdad, no airstrike devised can defeat cities and the Kurds will become outnumbered. I’m sure ISIS has already infiltrated the ranks of all sectors in Baghdad engaging in jaahidhum bihi jihád al-kabir (jihad of the tongue using the Quran). That’s how they took Mosul and the other cities and how they dispersed the Iraqi army.

In Islam, if you do not submit to the will of Allah, you are not innocent (and it doesn’t matter how old you are) or if you have heard the call and have turned away, you are a hypocrite. The Quran is very clear about the punishment that these people should suffer. No, Islam does not support the killing of innocents but it does support the killing of the kafir and hypocrite and that is all non-Muslims. Trying to not address the 800 lb. gorilla in the room to avoid insulting moderate allies is not going to help. Moderates are committing Apostasy and Shirk by being allied with us. They are just as guilty as any non-Muslim is.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't watch the speech but I have heard clips from it.

They thing that continuously amazes me is the lack of wisdom...you do not tell your enemies what you will and will not do. All that does is allow them time and opportunity to formulate a counter strategy.

I am sorry that people think this can be negotiated away and everyone will live in their little corner of the world and not bother their neighbors they disagree with...it just doesn't work that way. Especially when it comes to Islam and their refusal to co-exist with other faiths. They are thoroughly convinced they are right and if you disagree with them, you must die...there is no tolerance in there for anything. It doesn't matter if you are Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Daoist...etc...etc...etc..."convert to Islam or die!" and some idiots out there think this can be negotiated with. You cannot negotiate or make peace with this mindset.

Scorched earth...that is the only way to defeat this. If you fail as Joshua did and leave one stone upon another...they will come back around seeking vengeance...this must be rubbed out forever...never to return...or we will have to do this all over again.

The crusades were lost because of greed and corruption...well, that is my take on it. We need to not make the same mistakes...full commitment to eradication is the only logical course of action that will stop this cycle.

Yes I know...sounds extremely harsh...but that is the point I have come to. I can be tolerant when tolerance is reciprocated...I can also be very intolerant and downright nasty...

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So how do you propose making sure that it is just the current Menace to Civilization that you eradicate, or doesn't it really matter and you follow Arnaud Amalric's philosophy, kill 'em all and let God sort out the evildoers? Or are they all potential evildoers so it doesn't really matter?

And people still say that I'm being unreasonable and hysterical for not overreacting to this threat to the future of civilisation.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So how do you propose making sure that it is just the current Menace to Civilization that you eradicate, or doesn't it really matter and you follow Arnaud Amalric's philosophy, kill 'em all and let God sort out the evildoers? Or are they all potential evildoers so it doesn't really matter?

And people still say that I'm being unreasonable and hysterical for not overreacting to this threat to the future of civilisation.

So what is your wise solution to this? Do you have one? or...Do you just "hope" that everyone will all have a Coca-Cola and a smile?

You do realize that it is the absolute founding principle of this faith to kill and destroy anyone and anything that disagrees with them...how do you negotiate with that? Seriously, I am asking. I don't see there ever being peace when people think this way to the core of their being. They do not tolerate difference...heck they hate different ideas within the same religion (Sunni versus Shia)...how do you make peace with a philosophy like this?

Simple answer...you cannot.

If you try...you fail. If you ignore them, they will hurt you.

I wish...I sincerely do wish....that people would let other people live their lives as they see fit. It is the core principle of my philosophy of life and freedom...but when someone wants to take that away from me because I don't pray to the same spaghetti monster they do...or if I do but don't worship the way they say I should...then they have backed me into a corner and left me with only one option...survival.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My own solution to this is simple.

Start dealing with all nations honestly, as equals, with respect, putting their interests level with your own rather than putting your profits ahead of their best interest. If this method is followed the world will be a nice place to live in 20 years. Keep following the path of greed and there will be no future in 100 years.

Love thy brother as thyself. Lead by practicing this example.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I say educate the Islam psychosis (fairy tales treated as reality) out of them.

Allah's Missile Defense System (Shooting Stars repel Demons).

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=263536

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think an outright declaration of War is in order, honestly it may be the only way to deal with ISIS.

Not "military intervention" or any other word "war" and all the associated changes to the law that such a decision encompasses. Anyone supporting them? "The Enemy", simple as that.

Yes, this will result in them getting a whole parade of support, people thinking it's "mean old America and it's poodles picking on poor ISIS", but stuff them ISIS has outright said it wants a fight, give it to them. Never start a fight, but always end one, that sort of thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Syria, Iran, Turkey, Germany line up to blast Obama’s unilateral speech.

http://www.ibtimes.com/obama-isis-speech-reaction-germany-turkey-wont-join-airstrikes-syria-uk-wont-rule-them-out-1685828

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/09/11/syria-opposition-welcomes-obama-speech-says-defeating-isis-assad-equally/

Seems like Congress isn’t the only ones upset over Obama’s unilateral actions.

The Saudi King has been silent so far.

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Obama-calls-Saudi-King-before-his-speech-against-the-Islamic-state-32122.html

10 Arab states have pledged to support the effort but will not send troops

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/middle-east-updates/1.615240

Russia warns US of act of aggression.

http://voiceofrussia.com/uk/news/2014_09_11/Russia-urges-consolidated-international-action-to-tackle-IS-7461/

And with Scotland voting on independence, England may stay out.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/scotland-independence-referendum/

We went from “Don’t do stupid stuff” as a core foreign policy

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/06/04/obama_dont_do_stupid_shit_foreign_policy_bowe_bergdahl

and no strategy

http:// - youtu.be/3rFQTqTC5yg

to “This is a core principle of my presidency: if you threaten America, you will find no safe haven.” I would think that core doctrine should have been established 6 years ago.

Who’s the dummy now?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[media=]

[/media]

I'm beginning to reassess my opinion of ol' GW, Like I re,arked before, he looks like Churchill to Mr. O's Neville Chamberlain.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My own solution to this is simple.

Start dealing with all nations honestly, as equals, with respect, putting their interests level with your own rather than putting your profits ahead of their best interest. If this method is followed the world will be a nice place to live in 20 years. Keep following the path of greed and there will be no future in 100 years.

Love thy brother as thyself. Lead by practicing this example.

Got anything with a lower Price-of-Failure?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm beginning to reassess my opinion of ol' GW, Like I re,arked before, he looks like Churchill to Mr. O's Neville Chamberlain.

I haven't forgotten that it was the Bush Administration and Tony Blair et al, who opened up the floodgates originally

by getting rid of Saddam Hussein and to all intents and purposes destroying the infrastructure of Iraq...

It would have been cheaper and more humane to have Bought Off Hussein.....(again)....than facilitate the debarcle we have now...

But that was then and this is now....so I suppose it's pointless going on and on about it....

It's just that GW has a hell of a lot more on his conscience and blood on his hands than Obama has IMO...

For all that people don't rate Obama...he DID inherit the Iraq/Middle East situation...rather than create it..

???

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

.

I have just listened to the speech and Obama looks tired and empty...

Reading the script with no real conviction...

Obviously this is not what is needed in a leader in these dangerous times..

I didn't even think his heart was really in to going for a 2nd term...perhaps he was persuaded..?

Also he was not into getting involved in bombing Assad when all that lot was going on last year..

you could feel that clearly in his demeanor...and I think he was relieved when the British Parliament

(miraculously) put a halt to that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29IDS7Kw2PE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

.

In The Art of War by Sun Tzu...one of the most famous quotes is..

It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.

You know RavenHawk..... I think you have a proper handle on 'the ememy'...

You have been lambasted for many posts you made in the Middle East Forum...but I think that was a case of 'truth hurts'...

'We' are never going to get on top of all this until we actually know our enemy...see through the muddy waters of what people

want to believe and what is actually happening....I find your posts educational...cheers... :tu:

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sun_Tzu

.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have just listened to the speech and Obama looks tired and empty...

Reading the script with no real conviction...

ISIS/ISIL is a fraud.

A construct of Western and ME energy interests created out of thin air in the wake of last year's failed attempt at regime-change in Syria.

Obama knows that everyone killed in a new war there will be killed by US-made weaponry...including US soldiers if they go. Pathetic and beyond the pale.

Don't believe the fraud.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

.

@ hacktorp...I am sure ISIS/ISIL/IS is real and dangerous....but the confusion is there because the US lead West stupidly thought

Al Qaeda affiliates could do their dirty work for them and get rid of Assad...and when they armed the so-called rebels

they turned a blind eye to the fact that they were arming AQ types....now the whole thing has got out of hand...and come

back to bite them....(and everyone else who has been murdered or tortured or injured)

Now it is a horrible mess...

that's how I see it...

.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The so-called "most well-funded terror organization in history" is merely a pretext for getting many more boots on the ground for the purpose of securing a north/south corridor in which a natgas pipeline can be built from Qatar to Turkey.

Believe me, if this objective is met, ISIS/ISIL will evaporate as quickly as it appeared...and many of its "fighters" will have new jobs.

This is a manufactured problem/reaction/solution in the classic Diocletian tradition.

ISIS/ISIL is only a danger to the truth.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is alot I didn't like about bush but when he actually made a statment against people who want to kill us he actually made a strong straight forward freaked statement

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Believe me, if this objective is met, ISIS/ISIL will evaporate as quickly as it appeared...and many of its "fighters" will have new jobs.

not much of a job though is it....getting blown up and killed...unless you are saying it is ALL theatre....

(I don't for one minute think it is all theatre myself)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Got anything with a lower Price-of-Failure?

Nope. If you believe that the world won't be a better place through the method of respect and fairness I suggest then what would make it a better place?

What I suggested:

Start dealing with all nations honestly, as equals, with respect, putting their interests level with your own rather than putting your profits ahead of their best interest.

If doing this could possibly put us at a greater risk of failure please explain how? Does anyone believe that nations and people treating each other with honesty, love and respect is the wrong direction for the world to go into the future?

Edited by OverSword
Link to comment
Share on other sites

not much of a job though is it....getting blown up and killed...unless you are saying it is ALL theatre....

(I don't for one minute think it is all theatre myself)

It is and it isn't.

It IS NOT theater to the devout fundamentalists that believe they are fighting Jihad against the great evil and spreading Islam across the world...

But to me...that is a despicable and diabolical use of the blind faith of others.

There is more here than just the want and desire to spread Islam...the powers behind the Islamic State...their leaders and backers...are a many headed serpent and deception is their weapon of choice. They have recruited these fanatics under the flag of faith and religion...but their true motives are far more material than spiritual...

They will use the footsoldiers...the pawns...as cannon fodder. They don't care about the casualty count...for the devout, to die in service to Allah is the perfect way to go. It's just a shame to me that they are probably being lied to and manipulated all in the name of big oil profits and a pipeline through Syria.

That leaves us with quite the difficult situation.

You cannot negotiate with this mindset...you cannot make peace with them...it goes against the very foundation of their faith to "tolerate" others...

So...in the name of the Almighty "Oil"...many are going to die and there is no way around it...

terrible and awful and as I said in another thread post....diabolical.

Edited by Jeremiah65
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is and it isn't.

It IS NOT theater to the devout fundamentalists that believe they are fighting Jihad against the great evil and spreading Islam across the world...

But to me...that is a despicable and diabolical use of the blind faith of others.

There is more here than just the want and desire to spread Islam...the powers behind the Islamic State...their leaders and backers...are a many headed serpent and deception is their weapon of choice. They have recruited these fanatics under the flag of faith and religion...but their true motives are far more material than spiritual...

They will use the footsoldiers...the pawns...as cannon fodder. They don't care about the casualty count...for the devout, to die in service to Allah is the perfect way to go. It's just a shame to me that they are probably being lied to and manipulated all in the name of big oil profits and a pipeline through Syria.

That leaves us with quite the difficult situation.

You cannot negotiate with this mindset...you cannot make peace with them...it goes against the very foundation of their faith to "tolerate" others...

So...in the name of the Almighty "Oil"...many are going to die and there is no way around it...

terrible and awful and as I said in another thread post....diabolical.

Are you referring to ISIS or US?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope. If you believe that the world won't be a better place through the method of respect and fairness I suggest then what would make it a better place?

It isn't your method, but rather your conclusion, that I addressed.

Your conclusion:

If this method is followed the world will be a nice place to live in 20 years. Keep following the path of greed and there will be no future in 100 years.

Love thy brother as thyself. Lead by practicing this example.

What I suggested:

Start dealing with all nations honestly, as equals, with respect, putting their interests level with your own rather than putting your profits ahead of their best interest.

If doing this could possibly put us at a greater risk of failure please explain how?

Simply put, "fairness" and "equality" are not one and the same, nor is "respect" shown by putting the interests of others on the same level as your own.

Whether you are dealing with presidents of megapowers and glorified tribal leaders, major corporations and small business start-ups, or even something as basic as moderators and members, the simple fact of the matter is that not everyone is equal, and to pretend they are would be unfair. Negotiations, at the most fundamental level, is almost entirely about leveraging these differences. To pretend they don't exist removes one of your greatest tools of diplomacy, and leaves you with pretty much nothing other than actually carrying out what would have been nothing but threats before. While the likes of Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, and such showed us the effectiveness of the direct combat and conquer strategy, these days such tactics are regarded as barbaric and primitive, and should always be opposed. If everyone is equal at the negotiation table, there is no reason for anyone to compromise.

Does anyone believe that nations and people treating each other with honesty, love and respect is the wrong direction for the world to go into the future?

As I said, it isn't your methods, but your conclusion, that is being questioned.

You can love and respect others as much as you like, heck, you can even do so honestly, but that doesn't guaranteed in any way, shape, or form, that you will receive the same back. Not everyone shares the same concept of reciprocity.

Like I said, the problem is the price of failure. If everyone loves and respects each other, no problem. If someone decides to not love and respect the other, well, we've all seen the result of that.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To purposefully screw over other people for your own gain makes the world a worse place. Prime example the overthrow of Iran's elected government and installation of the Shaw all for oil profits. Had we allowed them sovereignty over their own resources back then and worked with the democratically elected government how much different (better) may entire region be today? Just one example out of hundreds of how the greed and abuse heaped on the world by the US and it's allies has ultimately made the world more dangerous in my opinion. And it continues today with Syria and the phantom pipeline. I will never be convinced that the west acting in a more moral fashion will not make the planet earth a better place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since Obama has said before that “I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.” I can't help but think that some of his apparent inaction is deliberate stalling. Every bit of ground, or weapons or converts that ISIS has gained has come as a gift from Obama by his refusal to even try to stop them. Declaring to the world that "we have no strategy" is a blank check for them to continue their rampage across the Middle East. They have directly threatened America, which should be taken as a declaration of war and he has not bothered to respond. I don't see ineptitude as much as I see collusion with the enemy. Whether our open borders is part of the plan is deeper than I want to go right now but it certainly seems possible. Many reporters and commentators referred to Obama as "reluctant" after his speech and rightly so. I think the speech was a concession to political interests at home and an attempt to fool the nation into thinking he intends to do something while he's actually just buying more time. When something disastrous happens here he will claim he didn't know until he saw it on the news, just like so many times before.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.