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would I go back to Jesus?


ambelamba

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I am from a devout Catholic family that uses religion as the bond that holds the clan together. They don't know any better. At 14, I became a Protestant because I took Chick Tracts literally. Turns out that I've had Asperger's syndrome. For 15 years I was a young earth creationist and a premillenialist. I did believe in rapture.

Then something happened. An unbearable psychosomatic pain that tore me apart for two years. I begged for a miracle, and the plea was justifiable because average people would have killed themselves. I couldn't function.

Then something came up in my mind and I googled the words my mind brought up. Biblical contradictions, those two words changed my mind. And it was a struggle that took me years. It took me about 10 years to become an atheist without feeling conflicted too much.

I wouldn't go back to Christianity, knowing that I am a potential extremist. I am in autism spectrum and tend to take things too literally. And my fervent faith fuelled my schizophrenia. I don't have to take the med everyday. Maybe a pill every couple of weeks, which is not bad. Heck, one shrink even wondered if I ever had schizophrenia.

See why I acted so hostile to Christianity? It destroyed my life. I belonged to a uber fundie cult called university bible fellowship and they imposed impossible moral standards on members. Moral extremism that vilify human sexuality is fairly huge in Korea. Well, they vilified sex even before Christianity came. you get the picture, i guess.

At one point i attempted to uproot my subconsciousness, to uproot evil and lust in me and to please God. And that brought my mental breakdown. Since Jesus condemen thought-crimes, i believed that killing off Freudian subconsciousness was something to please Jesus.

Yes, now you see how extremist I was. And you get the glimpse why I won't go back to Jesus.

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I get your point. You should probably stay away from conspiracy theories as well

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Eh, maybe I was into that sort of stuff because I felt victimized by something. But now I dont buy CT too much so dont worry.

Yeah...I was afraid of lust because I feared the wrath of God. Somehow I was at ease with God being a neat freak... Some Christians are obsessed with the concept of purity, largely out of fear and some Darwinian biological instinct....

Now, if i was a wealthy guy living near Venice beach I'd be happy to check out...The Full Circle. They are an upcoming cult founded by a former Hollywood heartthrob Andrew Keegan. They recently got busted for brewing. ....kombucha with 1% alcohol. :D And their meetings attract beautiful single women. Well, i used to fear God about my lust and now I don't mind join a cult to tap some top shelf tails. I guess i do have some improvement.

Edited by ambelamba
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Best wishes on your path Ambelamba. If Christ brings you a spirit of unrest or fear then maybe it isn't the real one because Timothy relates specifically: " For God has not given us a spirit of fear and timidity, but of power, love, and self-discipline." So be at peace man - do what it takes to be at peace with yourself -a loving God doesn't expect more I THINK :)

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Religion is crap. Faith on the other hand is more personal and has nothing to do with institutions. Institutions were made to control people and justify genocides, rapes, massacres, terrorism, racism, fascism, discrimination, etc. Don't let them put their hands and thoughts on you. You don't need a book to have morals, you don't need a priest saying what's good and wrong, you know better. You can believe there's an energy or an entity ruling the planet without falling in religion traps or directly believe whatever you want to believe. Don't join a group, sect or institution just to feel part of something, you're part of something already. No gods, no masters. Be free. Live and let live, be happy, positive and do something productive for yourself and the rest of humanity. That's what gives peace of mind and soul.

This post was not made to offend anyone, faith or belief is way different than religion as institution. Religion is an institution not faith.

Edited by MrBene
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ugh ohh...sometimes i must read twice a message to understand it

Edited by qxcontinuum
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That was an awesome example of how lies and corrupt forms of thought can breed extremism and destroy us from within.

Extremism is the bane of our world..

I hope you find balance and equilibrium in life ambelamba..

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I like this thread! I had to read the post from MrBene twice, though!

To paraphrase a great Irish comedian, be at peace with your God.

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Religion is crap. Faith on the other hand is more personal and has nothing to do with institutions. Institutions were made to control people and justify genocides, rapes, massacres, terrorism, racism, fascism, discrimination, etc. Don't let them put their hands and thoughts on you. You don't need a book to have morals, you don't need a priest saying what's good and wrong, you know better. You can believe there's an energy or an entity ruling the planet without falling in religion traps or directly believe whatever you want to believe. Don't join a group, sect or institution just to feel part of something, you're part of something already. No gods, no masters. Be free. Live and let live, be happy, positive and do something productive for yourself and the rest of humanity. That's what gives peace of mind and soul.

This post was not made to offend anyone, faith or belief is way different than religion as institution. Religion is an institution not faith.

It hasn't offended me. It kind of goes with I am and what I do in my belief. I don't know how it would offend. I think everyone has their own path no matter how many people are part of it.

ugh ohh...sometimes i must read twice a message to understand it

I don't what you said originally, but that's me to a T. Then again it takes me three, four many times to get it. ;):D
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See why I acted so hostile to Christianity? It destroyed my life. I belonged to a uber fundie cult called university bible fellowship and they imposed impossible moral standards on members. Moral extremism that vilify human sexuality is fairly huge in Korea. Well, they vilified sex even before Christianity came. you get the picture, i guess.

Let it go, man. It didn't destroy you life, you are still alive are you not. Chalk it up to lessons learned and move on. You can't let the past rule your life, it can't be changed. Only the future can be changed.

Always remember, "sometimes we live our lives in chains, never knowing we have the key."

http://youtu.be/iYCPccFQHWA

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There are some people in this forum that I am curious about their reaction about my life story. Curiously, they are rather absent in this kind of discussion. Some people are all about theories and none about real world situations.

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There are some people in this forum that I am curious about their reaction about my life story. Curiously, they are rather absent in this kind of discussion. Some people are all about theories and none about real world situations.

I haven't been active lately, but have accompanied some threads that tweak my interest, this was one of them, especially the comment above, I felt I had to respond to that for some undefinable reason. We all understand I think the various stages we go through in our lives, especially in retrospect and we can't judge others by the directions in which each of us choose to take our lives in. Most Christians on this board won't be too shocked to know the details of why you refuse to return to Christianity, many of would even go as far as to say that we understand such a position, many of us have held that position before, just in reverse order. In my particular case I was a staunch Atheist before becoming a Christian.

What I do not actually believe is that the beliefs you held were the cause of your great unhappiness, nor was it a result of your illness. They were rather in the attempted application of the perception of what God wanted you to do, something that is patently impossible for any man to do because the standards you ask of yourself are by far greater than any that God actually has ever asked of you.

I suffered from a similar thing. Our backgrounds are very similar. Born Catholic, converted to Christianity at 18, attended seminary, part of the literalist club, that is today defined as fundamentalism. It took a major falling out with the church leadership to break away, I suffered horribly for years because of that, guilt and even outright hatred toward the church. Unlike you though, I have never doubted God himself, just the people who lead our churches.

I still am a fundamentalist, in my core beliefs, but I have done away with trying to be perfect, and am content with who I am , sins and all, because what is important is my attitude and heart, toward my fellow man and toward God himself. A sin is not treason, it is a mistake, and there are none who can claim to never having made them.

So while I am by affinity a theorist and still a believer, it is the acceptance of real world situations that has allowed me to put those beliefs into actual practice. As you well know, no man can choose for us, the path we must tread ourselves, but it is also essential that when we come to the end of that path, to know that there are no regrets at all, else we risk wasting those years as futile. How we face the last frontier is determined by the peace of mind we have when we look back on our lives. If you have peace of mind, then honour is satisfied irrespective of the path taken.

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There are some people in this forum that I am curious about their reaction about my life story. Curiously, they are rather absent in this kind of discussion. Some people are all about theories and none about real world situations.

You appear to be baiting. People get wise to the bait.

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Jesus never condemned lust, its what man did, if anything its where Jesus`s life brought us equality.

Edited by docyabut2
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You appear to be baiting. People get wise to the bait.

No, I am genuinely curious.

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Its easy to accuse others of 'baiting' when they themselves do not have blind clue of what having the actual experience and terrible tragedies and cover ups that some people have managed to survive through ... some people ... a lot of them are dead because of it ..... dead!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-3088844/12-pupils-Ballarat-Catholic-school-photo-lives-abuse.html

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Its easy to accuse others of 'baiting' when they themselves do not have blind clue of what having the actual experience and terrible tragedies and cover ups that some people have managed to survive through ... some people ... a lot of them are dead because of it ..... dead!

http://www.dailymail...ives-abuse.html

And many more who lived better lives because of their faith.

Where you may find 1000 victims of abuse you will also find 100.000 people who had better lives because they belonged to that organization.

Organizations are like bait, they attract predators, you seem to blame the organization rather than the predator himself.

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I have read on this particular forum, some poster's accounts of how growing up in an organized religious institution has ruined them or left them scarred. There are a lot I have read, where they were raised in organized religion, going to sermons and such, and now are Atheists or Agnostics, because of their upraising. When I first read the OP's post, I am a bit hesitant in answering. I think of Jor-el's thoughts of blaming the institution and not the belief. I feel torn.

People here know, I"m a believer. Not an orthodoxed believer, but pretty much a New Ager believer. And I can even say, not an orthodoxed New Age believer. Which ever, be it that it maybe, I wasn't raised in the usual way of a family reading the holy book, and going to a place to hear sermons each week. You could say I was raised by an Atheist family, but that wouldn't be the truth. My parents both came from families with religions, my father congregational, and my mom presbyterian. I have memories of my mom talking about it, reading a weekly pamplet sent to her home and her having it by her bedside. The thing is, we were raised outside everything else. And that's it, we were free from it, and I don't have it as my childhood background. I wonder about the positive part, (the gathering of the congregation and the inclusion in festivals, and the closeness of the belief) and wonder if I should have been a part of it. Then I notice the negative part, (the belief in things I don't believe in and the harshness of how the congregations are to other people). And it's the second part that makes me feel glad I wasn't raised in that. I don't feel scarred, because that wasn't a part of my childhood. And it didn't have to be something to prevent us kids from being a nuisance on society. We all grew up good and became a healthy part of society. Some have passed away, (and that is due to some part of living on a military base) but never the less, we didn't need it. In fact, some of us became believers in other beliefs. My New Age and my sister converted to the Catholic religion.

That's it in a nutshell now. I feel horrified how some hear are hurting due to their raising. I am free of that, and I think it's because I wasn't. I'm not saying that it's like that all of the time whether one was raised in it or not, but there seems to be a pattern I myself is noticing. Ambelamba, I wish you were healed. (I wish you took GreenMansgod's advice). I feel bad about others here, and I feel guilty about how I was raised. Is it that cut and dried? Is it more complicated than that? I have various wishes that others in other institutions should have stepped up or not done, but that is everywhere. I think, that the best gift is to know the challengers, and feel glad you can overcome them and feel good about yourself and just pity those who failed you in the past. (And I think that is because of my belief helping me)

I don't know, I think it's about the organization more so than the belief. *shrugs*

I feel for you, Ambelamba. :wub:

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Vacation Baptist Bible camp, did it's brainwashing damage to youth. When I walked away from it, I was done with it. I don't let the my past regrets rule my future. Every once in awhile I get a flashback from it, but I have learned to redirect my thinking. If I dwell on it and what happened, then I am forever trapped in recurring loop of memory I don't need. When folks start to try proselytize me, I tell them I am good with my spirituality of Druidry. If they want to know more I am more than happy to explain it.

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I have read on this particular forum, some poster's accounts of how growing up in an organized religious institution has ruined them or left them scarred. There are a lot I have read, where they were raised in organized religion, going to sermons and such, and now are Atheists or Agnostics, because of their upraising. When I first read the OP's post, I am a bit hesitant in answering. I think of Jor-el's thoughts of blaming the institution and not the belief. I feel torn.

I don't know, I think it's about the organization more so than the belief. *shrugs*

I feel for you, Ambelamba. :wub:

Hi Stubbly_Dooright,

Just wanted to clarify something here...

I don't blame the institution or organization, because they are things, concepts and are not infused with a capacity for doing things right or wrong. It is the people that make up those organizations that have the capacity to do this. And like every such organization, whether it be religious or otherwise, even down to your workplace or mine, it is the people that need to be addressed.

The larger an organization the more people it has within its ranks, and the greater the probability that it will have unscrupulous and downright evil people, who only care for themselves rather than anything else. I have work colleagues like this, who only care for promotion, even if they have to step over others and get them fired to achieve their aims. We have a number of colleagues that have no problem in sleeping with their superiors if that's what it takes, and superiors who have no problem taking advantage of the situation.

In the context of a church, there are leaders who do exactly the same even if they hurt others by doing so, do we blame the organization or the people who actually do those things?

Going back to my own experiences, if I had taken that attitude, I would never have entered a church again, but it is not the church that is to blame, it is the leadership who permit such things and even then it is not the entire leadership either. There are always some honorable people in the church as in all such organizations.

I will not throw out the baby with the bathwater so to speak.

I cannot blame the church for the unscrupulous acts of people within it. It is the reason why I am still a Christian and still keep my beliefs.

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I am from a devout Catholic family that uses religion as the bond that holds the clan together. They don't know any better. At 14, I became a Protestant because I took Chick Tracts literally. Turns out that I've had Asperger's syndrome. For 15 years I was a young earth creationist and a premillenialist. I did believe in rapture.

Then something happened. An unbearable psychosomatic pain that tore me apart for two years. I begged for a miracle, and the plea was justifiable because average people would have killed themselves. I couldn't function.

Then something came up in my mind and I googled the words my mind brought up. Biblical contradictions, those two words changed my mind. And it was a struggle that took me years. It took me about 10 years to become an atheist without feeling conflicted too much.

I wouldn't go back to Christianity, knowing that I am a potential extremist. I am in autism spectrum and tend to take things too literally. And my fervent faith fuelled my schizophrenia. I don't have to take the med everyday. Maybe a pill every couple of weeks, which is not bad. Heck, one shrink even wondered if I ever had schizophrenia.

See why I acted so hostile to Christianity? It destroyed my life. I belonged to a uber fundie cult called university bible fellowship and they imposed impossible moral standards on members. Moral extremism that vilify human sexuality is fairly huge in Korea. Well, they vilified sex even before Christianity came. you get the picture, i guess.

At one point i attempted to uproot my subconsciousness, to uproot evil and lust in me and to please God. And that brought my mental breakdown. Since Jesus condemen thought-crimes, i believed that killing off Freudian subconsciousness was something to please Jesus.

Yes, now you see how extremist I was. And you get the glimpse why I won't go back to Jesus.

Seems to me you are blaming 'Jesus' for the psychological stranglehold the university bible fellowship had on you. Which although understandable emotionally, unreconcilable rationally. It seems to me you have not only let this cult 'cultivate' your mind to the level of mental breakdown, but you have also let it antagonize yourself against something invaluable. A double jab to the solar plexus, so to say.

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Religion is crap. Faith on the other hand is more personal and has nothing to do with institutions. Institutions were made to control people and justify genocides, rapes, massacres, terrorism, racism, fascism, discrimination, etc. Don't let them put their hands and thoughts on you. You don't need a book to have morals, you don't need a priest saying what's good and wrong, you know better. You can believe there's an energy or an entity ruling the planet without falling in religion traps or directly believe whatever you want to believe. Don't join a group, sect or institution just to feel part of something, you're part of something already. No gods, no masters. Be free. Live and let live, be happy, positive and do something productive for yourself and the rest of humanity. That's what gives peace of mind and soul.

This post was not made to offend anyone, faith or belief is way different than religion as institution. Religion is an institution not faith.

I see what you're saying here. Good way to put it :) Some people need the structure of that institution, though, and the rigidity it supplies. But you're right, institution of religion and faith are different animals, if I read you correctly.

Edited by Kasha
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It is hard, but those who have the propensity to extremist actually do have a place in society. It is tough for them and actually many of them are or can be suicidal (the extreme of extremism) of course these sorts can be zealous in religion probably in some part because they desperately seek salvation, or the salvation idea is of much value when they need it. I personally enjoy the fact that we do have extremists, recognizing that life has not historically been easy for most and some people have to face these challenges. I do not like extremism that leads to death or mass confusion, which happens, but we are still learning. Extremist bring movement and balance and are at the forefront of our progression, standstill and or decline. There is a passion in the extremist which cannot be denied, with the proper direction the extremist is our greatest hope. There is a little extremist in all of us, for many it is trumped by laziness.

If extremism leads an individual to psychotic states it appears to be of no value or of ill effect. As we continue with the idea of "my ideas are ok, my passions are of value," extremists can be helpful. One thing I think extremists do is assume a title "athiests, christian, democrat, republican etc" and run with that banner so high assuming all its attributes instead of having thier own well established attributes not based on title but on personal perceived truths... though, leaders and followers are also needed in societies.

I am happy to be somewhere in the middle but still hoping for an increase in my extreme passions.

People with no extreme passions seldom make history.

:')

Good luck to you on your journey Ambelamba. :-)

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Hi Stubbly_Dooright,

Just wanted to clarify something here...

I don't blame the institution or organization, because they are things, concepts and are not infused with a capacity for doing things right or wrong. It is the people that make up those organizations that have the capacity to do this. And like every such organization, whether it be religious or otherwise, even down to your workplace or mine, it is the people that need to be addressed.

The larger an organization the more people it has within its ranks, and the greater the probability that it will have unscrupulous and downright evil people, who only care for themselves rather than anything else. I have work colleagues like this, who only care for promotion, even if they have to step over others and get them fired to achieve their aims. We have a number of colleagues that have no problem in sleeping with their superiors if that's what it takes, and superiors who have no problem taking advantage of the situation.

In the context of a church, there are leaders who do exactly the same even if they hurt others by doing so, do we blame the organization or the people who actually do those things?

Going back to my own experiences, if I had taken that attitude, I would never have entered a church again, but it is not the church that is to blame, it is the leadership who permit such things and even then it is not the entire leadership either. There are always some honorable people in the church as in all such organizations.

I will not throw out the baby with the bathwater so to speak.

I cannot blame the church for the unscrupulous acts of people within it. It is the reason why I am still a Christian and still keep my beliefs.

It's a good think you spoke up to me. I tend to have a screwy way of writing, (and saying) things. What you said here, is what I thought you meant. I'm sorry I put it in a way that meant differently. I always feel the same way. There is a part of me, that probably doesn't know, because I never had those experiences as a kid, like most here. But in other institutions, (not religious), I see that too. I would feel that way about schools and there administrations due to my experiences. But now I see it differently in varying circumstances and areas. I agree, it's not just simplified to say this belief or institution is bad overall, when differently people run it in different places.
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And many more who lived better lives because of their faith. Where you may find 1000 victims of abuse you will also find 100.000 people who had better lives because they belonged to that organization

Oh ... excuse me ... I should not have mentioned it because so many have benefited otherwise

.... how hypocritical ... do I have to remind you of Luke 15.4 or Mathew 19.14 or ....

(There, now you can cover up such a sensitive topic by disputing with me on the meaning of those verses. )

.

Organizations are like bait, they attract predators, you seem to blame the organization rather than the predator himself.

For a start I was showing a reason why someone might feel like they would never go back to Christianity - I do blame the individuals and I do blame the organisation for the allowing of it and the cover ups they did to mask the crimes and allow more of them to be committed by shifting the known perpetrator to school after school and exposing more and more children to abuse - which happened !

, lets not automatically defensively try to create a smoke screen to justify what did happen even if it is not the majorities experience. This type of cover up attitude is what makes those effected never want to even consider returning.

I would expect some type of 'Christian charity' or understanding here for the person, and not some automatic and typical knee jerk reaction to my comments about published facts that are before a country's Royal Commission ... which is beginning to focus on the organisations responsibility and those high up in the organisation, who although did not commit the crimes are now starting to be being held responsible for not acting on what was happening in an organisation.

Now if that isnt an organisation being considered responsible because of the vast amount of research and evidence bought forward by people that are NOT ME and dont have my supposed biased outlook ... I dont know what is .

But you carry on denying all that and throwing red herrings on the path of justice that good people are calling out for ..... like tying to create an amorphous organisation that is totally separate and irresponsible for the members that constitute rule and direct such an organisation.

What are we supposed to do ... put the organisation on trial and ignore the people responsible ? Or put all the people who run the organisation on trial but declare that organisation innocent? Or just split hairs and say the two things are not associated ?

Edited by back to earth
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