Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

US drones bombing Africa from UK


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#16    and then

and then

    Abyssus Abyssum Invocat

  • Member
  • 13,671 posts
  • Joined:15 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land's End

  • Because what came before never seems enough...

Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:57 AM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 12 March 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

Drones have feelings too.
I guess that's the 21 st century version of "God bless Dow chemical corporation and Napalm"

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#17    spud the mackem

spud the mackem

    Spud the Mackem

  • Member
  • 3,465 posts
  • Joined:28 Oct 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Yeo Valley,Darkest Somerset.

  • man who ask for nothing shall never be disappointed

Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:18 AM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 11 March 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Drones will be remembered in history as the most indiscriminate weapon since the landmine. The sooner we realize this the better.
  When the Germans launched V1 and V2 rockets against England they hadnt a clue where they were going to land, Drones are guided but I dont think that they would have the fuel capacity to get to Africa or the middle east from U.K

(1) try your best, ............if that dont work.
(2) try your second best, ........if that dont work
(3) give up you aint gonna win

#18    keithisco

keithisco

    Majestic 12 Operative

  • Member
  • 5,854 posts
  • Joined:06 May 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rincon de Loix, Benidorm

Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:18 PM

View PostTiggs, on 11 March 2013 - 11:01 PM, said:

Operating range for the controllers, at a guess.

Exactly... the Predator later developed into the Reaper, again later developed into the Avenger UAV do not have intercontinental capabilities (c1900Kms range) so they need to be based quite close to the action, however, the UK is not close enough to ensure successful missions.

In contrast: The UK's Taranis (first flight due next month) is a truly intercontinental UAV IS designed to operate in an intercontinental theatre of operations.


#19    OverSword

OverSword

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 13,099 posts
  • Joined:16 Oct 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle WA USA

  • When the power of love overcomes the love of power then humanity can evolve

Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:38 PM

I'm guessing that they are remotely piloted from bases in Africa for take-offs and landings only, like they are in the mid-east.  It cuts down on lag time.  But the pilot and the chain of command giving the kill order will be based in the UK.

Edited by OverSword, 12 March 2013 - 05:38 PM.


#20    keithisco

keithisco

    Majestic 12 Operative

  • Member
  • 5,854 posts
  • Joined:06 May 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rincon de Loix, Benidorm

Posted 12 March 2013 - 06:48 PM

View PostOverSword, on 12 March 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

I'm guessing that they are remotely piloted from bases in Africa for take-offs and landings only, like they are in the mid-east.  It cuts down on lag time.  But the pilot and the chain of command giving the kill order will be based in the UK.

Possible, but I think it more likely that the Pilot will be based in Washington MGS Command or the Pentagon MGS Command. Take off and landings will also be controlled from the USA (although their autonomous systems are quite capable of performing these tasks independent of Pilot input).  The time lag is miniscule and is not a factor, it only becomes a factor if the Downlink or Uplink is compromised from the remote MGS. There are always at least 2 MGS involved in these operations to mitigate for this failure mode. The aircraft, as you say, will be based very much closer to the Operational area.

Edited by keithisco, 12 March 2013 - 06:51 PM.


#21    Professor Buzzkill

Professor Buzzkill

    Integrity is all we have

  • Member
  • 2,583 posts
  • Joined:20 Oct 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:White Cloud

Posted 12 March 2013 - 06:53 PM

View Postspud the mackem, on 12 March 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

When the Germans launched V1 and V2 rockets against England they hadnt a clue where they were going to land, Drones are guided but I dont think that they would have the fuel capacity to get to Africa or the middle east from U.K

The differance being that V1 & 2's were targeted at civilians. Drones are not, but have resulted in the deaths of thousands due to misidentification. Thats what happens when you make life and death decisions half a world away using only grainy video feed as your evidence. Thats why weddings, funerals and schools have been hit by drone strike (often in countries the west is not at war with).


#22    keithisco

keithisco

    Majestic 12 Operative

  • Member
  • 5,854 posts
  • Joined:06 May 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rincon de Loix, Benidorm

Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:07 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 12 March 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

The differance being that V1 & 2's were targeted at civilians. Drones are not, but have resulted in the deaths of thousands due to misidentification. Thats what happens when you make life and death decisions half a world away using only grainy video feed as your evidence. Thats why weddings, funerals and schools have been hit by drone strike (often in countries the west is not at war with).
I dispute your suggestion that "thousands" have been unintentionally killed, I would suggest that it is perhaps dozens of non coms that have been killed (this is still too high of course). Not entirely sure why you say the video feed is grainy, it most certainly is not. What it is probably down to is lack of Situational Awareness by the time that the Command to release is given. I have long proposed that Binocular video feeds be standard in Attack Drones to enable a depth of visual field to give a far more accurate target field.

The drones themselves DO have laser targetting capabilities, but only carry (at most) 4 Hellcat Missiles and I suspect that all four are released at the target on Command - this will leave a very large sphere of destruction.


#23    OverSword

OverSword

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 13,099 posts
  • Joined:16 Oct 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle WA USA

  • When the power of love overcomes the love of power then humanity can evolve

Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:29 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 12 March 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

I dispute your suggestion that "thousands" have been unintentionally killed, I would suggest that it is perhaps dozens of non coms that have been killed (this is still too high of course).
That is a little naive.  There were dozens killed at wedding from just one strike a few years back.


#24    Professor Buzzkill

Professor Buzzkill

    Integrity is all we have

  • Member
  • 2,583 posts
  • Joined:20 Oct 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:White Cloud

Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:35 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 12 March 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

I dispute your suggestion that "thousands" have been unintentionally killed, I would suggest that it is perhaps dozens of non coms that have been killed (this is still too high of course). Not entirely sure why you say the video feed is grainy, it most certainly is not. What it is probably down to is lack of Situational Awareness by the time that the Command to release is given. I have long proposed that Binocular video feeds be standard in Attack Drones to enable a depth of visual field to give a far more accurate target field.

The drones themselves DO have laser targetting capabilities, but only carry (at most) 4 Hellcat Missiles and I suspect that all four are released at the target on Command - this will leave a very large sphere of destruction.

In pakistan alone (a country that no nation is at war with) drone strikes have killed between 2 and 4 thousand people. Are they all insergents? The pakistan authorities disagree

Quote

However, Pakistan's Interior Minister Rehman Malik said, "drone missiles cause collateral damage. A few militants are killed, but the majority of victims are innocent citizens."[10]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan


#25    keithisco

keithisco

    Majestic 12 Operative

  • Member
  • 5,854 posts
  • Joined:06 May 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rincon de Loix, Benidorm

Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:06 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 12 March 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

In pakistan alone (a country that no nation is at war with) drone strikes have killed between 2 and 4 thousand people. Are they all insergents? The pakistan authorities disagree
[/size]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan

You have based your figures on Wiki, when you look into the references supplied you soon find that they are all VERY dubious sources and contain NO HARD DATA - just assumptions.

In the same vein - you have made assumptions about the video quality from drones as if decisions are made based on some "B" Movie quality... they are not. It is very clear to the Pilot just what he is seeing, he has NO Field Depth however and the final decision ito release weapons is outside of his sphere of influence.

The real problem here lies with the Chain of Command, with the final authority to release weapons.


#26    OverSword

OverSword

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 13,099 posts
  • Joined:16 Oct 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle WA USA

  • When the power of love overcomes the love of power then humanity can evolve

Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:50 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 12 March 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

You have based your figures on Wiki, when you look into the references supplied you soon find that they are all VERY dubious sources and contain NO HARD DATA - just assumptions.

In the same vein - you have made assumptions about the video quality from drones as if decisions are made based on some "B" Movie quality... they are not. It is very clear to the Pilot just what he is seeing, he has NO Field Depth however and the final decision ito release weapons is outside of his sphere of influence.

The real problem here lies with the Chain of Command, with the final authority to release weapons.
Well I don't see the need to kill anyone with drones.  It's the equivilent of a gangster doing a cowardly drive bye shooting, only our government doesn't even have the guts to be in the car.  I'm not afraid of terrorists.


#27    Professor Buzzkill

Professor Buzzkill

    Integrity is all we have

  • Member
  • 2,583 posts
  • Joined:20 Oct 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:White Cloud

Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:11 AM

View Postkeithisco, on 12 March 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

You have based your figures on Wiki, when you look into the references supplied you soon find that they are all VERY dubious sources and contain NO HARD DATA - just assumptions.

In the same vein - you have made assumptions about the video quality from drones as if decisions are made based on some "B" Movie quality... they are not. It is very clear to the Pilot just what he is seeing, he has NO Field Depth however and the final decision ito release weapons is outside of his sphere of influence.

The real problem here lies with the Chain of Command, with the final authority to release weapons.

Can you post a video feed of a drone strike and show me a clearly identified target? I have seen a few drone strike videos and i couldn't tell if it was a terrorist or a farmer that was blown away. In another drone attack a photographer was killed because he was pointing his camera which looked like an RPG apparently.

Edited by Professor Buzzkill, 13 March 2013 - 02:12 AM.


#28    keithisco

keithisco

    Majestic 12 Operative

  • Member
  • 5,854 posts
  • Joined:06 May 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rincon de Loix, Benidorm

Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:49 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 13 March 2013 - 02:11 AM, said:

Can you post a video feed of a drone strike and show me a clearly identified target? I have seen a few drone strike videos and i couldn't tell if it was a terrorist or a farmer that was blown away. In another drone attack a photographer was killed because he was pointing his camera which looked like an RPG apparently.

In short..NO. Such data is Classified, and I do not hold any video - streams in my posession.

I will say this, a Drone makes no interpretation of the Video - Stream, that decision is taken by a Human... that human may very well make an error in judgment and where any doubt exists then the Call to Release should never be made. It falls to the Chain of Command to censure any decision.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users