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Soul becomes part of Universe

quantum substances soul universe near death experience

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36 replies to this topic

#16    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:12 PM

View Postouija ouija, on 31 October 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

Yup, that's why it's called a theory at the moment :)

A theory is something that has been repeatedly confirmed through observation. This is just a hypothesis. And a stupid one, at that.

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#17    ouija ouija

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:22 PM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 31 October 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

A theory is something that has been repeatedly confirmed through observation. This is just a hypothesis. And a stupid one, at that.

A theory is: 'a supposition or system of ideas explaining something', 'a speculative view', 'the sphere of abstract knowledge or speculative thought'.

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#18    Copasetic

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:24 PM

View Postouija ouija, on 31 October 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

A theory is: 'a supposition or system of ideas explaining something', 'a speculative view', 'the sphere of abstract knowledge or speculative thought'.

No, in science a theory is much more than that. A theory is something that has been tested and has an incredible amount of weight behind it. An "ahh shucks" theory, as used by laymen is not a theory in science. Imaginarynumber1 is correct, this isn't a theory.


#19    ouija ouija

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:29 PM

View PostCopasetic, on 31 October 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

No, in science a theory is much more than that. A theory is something that has been tested and has an incredible amount of weight behind it. An "ahh shucks" theory, as used by laymen is not a theory in science. Imaginarynumber1 is correct, this isn't a theory.

To be fair, the article is secondhand(written by a journalist). Perhaps the guys involved don't call it that.

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#20    ouija ouija

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:36 PM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 31 October 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

A theory is something that has been repeatedly confirmed through observation. This is just a hypothesis. And a stupid one, at that.

I think it's rather sad that you view it as 'stupid'. I think it's exciting that ideas like this are put in the public domain to be discussed. The people who came up with the idea obviously see something that is worth spending time investigating. If we don't question and discuss and open our minds a little we'll just sink into a rut.

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#21    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:44 PM

View Postouija ouija, on 31 October 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

I think it's rather sad that you view it as 'stupid'. I think it's exciting that ideas like this are put in the public domain to be discussed. The people who came up with the idea obviously see something that is worth spending time investigating. If we don't question and discuss and open our minds a little we'll just sink into a rut.

Let create pointless hypothesis about Unicorns, while we're at it. How about fairies and angels, too?

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#22    ouija ouija

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:47 PM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 31 October 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

Let create pointless hypothesis about Unicorns, while we're at it. How about fairies and angels, too?

Now you're just being silly! :lol:

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#23    sepulchrave

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:23 PM

View Postouija ouija, on 31 October 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

'Widely regarded as incorrect' is a rather vague phrase, isn't it? not factual.
Fair enough. Orch-OR is widely regarded as incorrect within the physics community since, of the 20 testable predictions of Orch-OR, several of those that have been tested have been shown to be false (here, here, and here), and I am not aware of any that have come back positive.

However direct testing is complicated.

View Postouija ouija, on 31 October 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

With regard to the quantum entanglement returning, I picture it as a sort of netting which would stretch to a position outside of the body without any of the component parts moving in relation to each other. Presumably if you had only just died, the 'netting' would still be very close to your body, only just outside it, so that if your heart was then shocked into working again, the 'netting' would not have to move far to be back in place.
(Emphasis mine.) This kind of illustrates my point. If someone doesn't really understand what quantum entanglement is this seems reasonable.

Entanglement is a coherence between multiple objects. When an external force changes one (or all) of the objects, the coherence is broken. You can get the objects to be coherent again, but you can't put the original coherence back.

This, of course, is beside the entire point that while assuming groups of neurons might be quantum entangled is at least somewhat reasonable; extrapolating ``local entanglement'' to mean ``existence of a sole'' is pretty ridiculous.


#24    Artaxerxes

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:52 AM

It's like a big puzzle framed by the outer pieces made by quantum physics and the holographic universe theory and the inner pieces made up of near death experiences, death bed visions, mystical and transcendental experiences, the work of some Mediums, religion, and some drug experiences like psyllocybin, mushrooms, LSD, etc.  

When you step back and view the entire picture it paints a picture that there is a high degree of confidence that this life is not all there is.

Or like my momma used to say, "truth is stranger than fiction."


#25    Render

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:35 PM

View Postouija ouija, on 31 October 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:


The rest of your post is a bit of a red herring, isn't it? It doesn't relate to the content of the article at all.



How does it not?


#26    FurthurBB

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:36 PM

View Postouija ouija, on 30 October 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

http://www.dailymail...rink-death.html

From the article: 'Near-death experiences occur when the soul leaves the nervous system and enters the universe, claim two quantum physics experts.'

'It is held that our souls are more than the interaction of neurons in the brain. They are in fact constructed from the very fabric of the universe and may have existed since the beginning of time'.

WOW!! :w00t:

So, how does this fit in with the fact that a lot of drugs can induce typical near death experiences?  Does your soul think you are dying?


#27    FurthurBB

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:39 PM

View PostEmma_Acid, on 31 October 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:


Only if you take everything the media tells you at face value and refuse to do any proper academic reading of your own. At their basic level, there is nothing in modern physics that "gives credence to religious or esoteric beliefs".

Although it does make me smile when people who are generally pro-spiritual and anti-science flock to defend any given scientist when their discoveries happen to correlate vaguely with the individual's new age beliefs.


That is not just a problem with popular media, but with the way that research articles are put out to the media by journals and institutions.  This is something close to my heart that needs to be addressed.


#28    FurthurBB

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:40 PM

View PostOverSword, on 31 October 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

There is actually a loss of 2 grams (or some such miniscule wieght) at the moment of death, so it's quite possible that wieght is the sould exiting the flesh.

That has not been reproducible, so I would not state it as a fact.


#29    OverSword

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 05:29 PM

View PostFurthurBB, on 01 November 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:


That has not been reproducible, so I would not state it as a fact.
So I hear.  But you have to suppose that not too many people are on a scale at the moment of death.  Could you imagine, you grandfather is in the hospital dying of colon cancer, the family is gathered, there are tears and heavy hearts, and in walks a doctor asking "do you mind if we put you on a scale to see if you lose 21 grams the moment you die?"  So I would guess the reasons why this is not reproducible is not because they have tried many times.  I would guess it hasn't been reproduced out of not wanting to appear to be crass.


#30    ouija ouija

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 06:14 PM

View Postsepulchrave, on 31 October 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

Entanglement is a coherence between multiple objects. When an external force changes one (or all) of the objects, the coherence is broken. You can get the objects to be coherent again, but you can't put the original coherence back.

This, of course, is beside the entire point that while assuming groups of neurons might be quantum entangled is at least somewhat reasonable; extrapolating ``local entanglement'' to mean ``existence of a sole'' is pretty ridiculous.

Perhaps, no one has observed the original coherence going back into place yet? Or if they have, they haven't made their findings public for some reason.

Regarding your last sentence, I think that they are just 'feeling their way around' a bit as to what is going on and are calling it a 'soul' because it approximates to what some think of as such. It's not set in stone.  


View PostRender, on 01 November 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

How does it not?

How do the four examples you give add any weight to your argument that these scientists are wrong because they are working outside their field?  





View PostFurthurBB, on 01 November 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

So, how does this fit in with the fact that a lot of drugs can induce typical near death experiences?  Does your soul think you are dying?

Presumably, yes.

Life is all too much ............................................. and not enough.

It is only when you form your question precisely and accurately that you receive the true answer.




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