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Cristina Kirchner is back again


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#16    Mekorig

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:37 AM


stevewinn, Mr. Right Wing, dont get much hopes of using "a sledgehammer to crack a nut approach". Our armed forces are a shadow of a shadow thanks to Cristina and her late husband.


Im an evil pinko UN slave liberal commie

I don't think any of these "The Vague Society of Nebulous Meanies are going to take over the world and light up a planet" theories worry too much about practical considerations like that. It's all about rousing ill-informed, paranoiac fear, not making sense.

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#17    stevewinn

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:40 AM

View PostMekorig, on 05 January 2013 - 01:37 AM, said:

stevewinn, Mr. Right Wing, dont get much hopes of using "a sledgehammer to crack a nut approach". Our armed forces are a shadow of a shadow thanks to Cristina and her late husband.

Yes i've seen pieces on the state of the argentine military, due to financial cuts. such as your navy spent a total of 14 days at sea last year, and your sub's only doing training for four weeks. so with that in mind and the islands better protected, 1200 troops, Four Euro Fighters, and Anti Aircraft missiles i dont think we'll see a repeat of last time. but who knows what the future holds. the Argentine people are not going to let the issue drop, so it'll always be a political issue.

I cant remember the date but in the near future the Falkland Islanders according to the prime minister are going to hold a referendum on their relationship with us. IE do they want to remain British. - if as we expect the Islanders voting to remain British. will the people of Argentina accept that? and let the issue drop and the government stop with their underhand tactics in a bid to damage the falkland .Is economy?

Mekorig, when you was in school what was the teaching on the Falklands?

At the end of the day lets hope common sense prevails and we get along,

Edited by stevewinn, 05 January 2013 - 11:10 AM.

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#18    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:21 PM

View PostMekorig, on 05 January 2013 - 01:37 AM, said:

stevewinn, Mr. Right Wing, dont get much hopes of using "a sledgehammer to crack a nut approach". Our armed forces are a shadow of a shadow thanks to Cristina and her late husband.

When we look at the history of the Falkland Islands we discover that originally there was no native population. Britain was the first to establish a colony there followed by the French and Spanish. Britain took full control before Argentina even existed as a country. How then do you have a claim?

When it comes to the Falklands War your country invaded the islands against international law and without a legal claim to the territory. The conflict led to the deaths of 3 civilians, a few hundred British troops and the loss of many naval vessels. Do you understand the resentment such actions caused in the UK?

I personally find Argentina demanding the Falkland Islands once again to be insulting. I have nothing against you as a person and I think the loss of life should be kept to a minimum but I do think Britain should settle this once and for all. That means no peace treaty until Argentina apologies, publically accepts it has no claim and signs international treaties to that effect.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 05 January 2013 - 01:21 PM.


#19    Yes_Man

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:24 PM

I don't think Mek cares about the Falklands


#20    Mekorig

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 02:30 PM

Yes, i care about the Malvinas (Falklands). As you may be aware, both sides have diferents versions of the history. I think the islands are part of our territory, the UK in its imperial era have the habit of taking territories here and there (heck, they tried to invade Buenos Aires twice, both time repelled). The thing is, you have british population living there for more than one hundred years there, so the situation is far more delicate and complex that our leaders (both sides) wants to belive.

The Malvinas/Falklands situation is followed by other countries because of the diplomatical and legal implications if an agreedments, or other outcome is reached, for example, Spain with Gibraltar. My personal opinion is that both leaderships want to mantain the status quo, the current situation benefits goth goverments to distract people from their internal problems, and serves to fuel idiotic nationalism.

Im an evil pinko UN slave liberal commie

I don't think any of these "The Vague Society of Nebulous Meanies are going to take over the world and light up a planet" theories worry too much about practical considerations like that. It's all about rousing ill-informed, paranoiac fear, not making sense.

--Jaylemurph


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#21    Yes_Man

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 02:31 PM

View PostMekorig, on 05 January 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Yes, i care about the Malvinas (Falklands). As you may be aware, both sides have diferents versions of the history. I think the islands are part of our territory, the UK in its imperial era have the habit of taking territories here and there (heck, they tried to invade Buenos Aires twice, both time repelled). The thing is, you have british population living there for more than one hundred years there, so the situation is far more delicate and complex that our leaders (both sides) wants to belive.

The Malvinas/Falklands situation is followed by other countries because of the diplomatical and legal implications if an agreedments, or other outcome is reached, for example, Spain with Gibraltar. My personal opinion is that both leaderships want to mantain the status quo, the current situation benefits goth goverments to distract people from their internal problems, and serves to fuel idiotic nationalism.
Well in that case it should belong to Spain.


#22    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:49 PM

View PostMekorig, on 05 January 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Yes, i care about the Malvinas (Falklands). As you may be aware, both sides have diferents versions of the history. I think the islands are part of our territory, the UK in its imperial era have the habit of taking territories here and there (heck, they tried to invade Buenos Aires twice, both time repelled). The thing is, you have british population living there for more than one hundred years there, so the situation is far more delicate and complex that our leaders (both sides) wants to belive.

The Malvinas/Falklands situation is followed by other countries because of the diplomatical and legal implications if an agreedments, or other outcome is reached, for example, Spain with Gibraltar. My personal opinion is that both leaderships want to mantain the status quo, the current situation benefits goth goverments to distract people from their internal problems, and serves to fuel idiotic nationalism.

The Falkland Islands were unpopulated so its different from going around annexing others land. They have never been owned by Argentina either and were British before your country existed. You're using Spains claim (which is now weak) as your own which is invalid. A straight question is it really just about the oil?

If Argentina is hoping for a slice of the oil then why would Britain give you some not only after you've tried taking them by force once but now try to demand them by applying diplomatic pressure? A more sensible strategy would be to make friends with us, repair the damaged relationship, earn our respect and then ask if you can bid for some of the drilling rights.

Britain isnt the kind of country that lets itself be pushed around and has a long history of seeing off nations which try it on. We are also fair, cooperative and look after our friends. Thats why Norway drills for oil with us in the North Sea and why France now has some of BPs claims in Libya.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 05 January 2013 - 03:52 PM.


#23    stevewinn

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 07:55 PM

whatever people do be careful in the use of wiki as a source its being edited beyond recognition. just look at the dates for the revision of the Falklands wiki page. this is the downside to wiki.  

http://en.wikipedia....&action=history

Mekorig, what is your version of history? -

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#24    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:02 PM

you know, we could just listen to the locals and ... ohh look, they wsnt to be British.
Problem solved.


#25    TheLastLazyGun

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:23 PM

View PostCorp, on 03 January 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

Be interesting to see how they spin things when the Islanders vote for British rule, which they likely will.

My reckoning is that around 99% of the Falklanders will vote to stay British, just as the Gibraltareans did a few years ago.

But what gets me is that Cameron is telling the Argies that the Falklanders will, in a referendum, determine their own national destiny yet, at the same time, he is still refusing to give the British people the EU in/out referendum that the majority of us want.


#26    TheLastLazyGun

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:28 PM

View PostMekorig, on 05 January 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

I think the islands are part of our territory

Well, what you think doesn't matter.  In fact, what you think is WRONG.  The Falklands are NOT Argentine terrirory.  They are a British overseas territory and the British settled the islands before Argentina even existed and before Argentina's Spanish founders did.

Argentina has no legitimate claim to the Falklands.

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the UK in its imperial era have the habit of taking territories here and there (heck, they tried to invade Buenos Aires twice, both time repelled).

You seem to forget that Argentina itself wouldn't have existed had the Spanish in their imperial era not had the habit of invading and taking the lands of the Native Americans in South America.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun, 06 January 2013 - 05:29 PM.


#27    Corp

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:25 PM

Meh this is just an attempt to distract people from Argentine's bad economy. Nothing will come of it. Until the next time Kirchner needs to try and trick her voters from seeing the bad job she's doing.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#28    stevewinn

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:15 PM

View PostCorp, on 07 January 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

Meh this is just an attempt to distract people from Argentine's bad economy. Nothing will come of it. Until the next time Kirchner needs to try and trick her voters from seeing the bad job she's doing.

I agree on the surface but we thought the same last time, we thought the same in 1977. - we now know the Argies had plans to invade the Falklands. it wasn't until 1981 with Galtieri rise to power - and it was agreed an invasion would take place within two years, they planned for an invasion once the British removed the patrol ship 'Endurance'

they planned for an invasion late in the year when the winter conditions in the South Atlantic would make the British re-taking the islands impossible. the (argies) plans come unstuck with the incident with the scrap metal workers when we sent in marines to remove them. this forced the hand of the argies to invade sooner. and the rest is history as they say.

But remember this all happened with the backdrop of Social unrest in Argentina. The unpopular budget cuts and economic situation made the Juntas position unclear, much of what happened then we can see happening today.

If we read the report after the Falklands War by the UK government we'll find the Foreign Office expected Argentina to take Three steps before invasion if at all, as regards to the Falklands - step 1 - was to go to the UN, step 2 - was to use economic force, IE blocking supply routes, cutting off oil supplies, sea links etc... 3 - was military action.

If you think to the present day -  Step 1✔ They have been to the UN. - Step 2 ✔ they have directly disrupted the Falklands economy, by stopping cruise ships, targeting fishing vessels, and oil exploration etc... - This is why we should learn from our mistakes and not allow step 3. however unlikely. their armed forces in 1982 had budget cuts, but they made sure their Navy/Airforce had acquired the new Exocet missles and the French Etendard. we planned to send a task force before 1982 to send a warning but because then - like today its costs an arm and a leg to divert ships, and cancel NATO operations. but if i was the UK Government i'd send two Frigates and one of the new Type 45 destroyers, with possibly a Sub. regardless of the cost. if we learn from history we wont repeat the mistakes.

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#29    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 07:53 AM

View Poststevewinn, on 07 January 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

I agree on the surface but we thought the same last time, we thought the same in 1977. - we now know the Argies had plans to invade the Falklands. it wasn't until 1981 with Galtieri rise to power - and it was agreed an invasion would take place within two years, they planned for an invasion once the British removed the patrol ship 'Endurance'

they planned for an invasion late in the year when the winter conditions in the South Atlantic would make the British re-taking the islands impossible. the (argies) plans come unstuck with the incident with the scrap metal workers when we sent in marines to remove them. this forced the hand of the argies to invade sooner. and the rest is history as they say.

But remember this all happened with the backdrop of Social unrest in Argentina. The unpopular budget cuts and economic situation made the Juntas position unclear, much of what happened then we can see happening today.

If we read the report after the Falklands War by the UK government we'll find the Foreign Office expected Argentina to take Three steps before invasion if at all, as regards to the Falklands - step 1 - was to go to the UN, step 2 - was to use economic force, IE blocking supply routes, cutting off oil supplies, sea links etc... 3 - was military action.

If you think to the present day - Step 1✔ They have been to the UN. - Step 2 ✔ they have directly disrupted the Falklands economy, by stopping cruise ships, targeting fishing vessels, and oil exploration etc... - This is why we should learn from our mistakes and not allow step 3. however unlikely. their armed forces in 1982 had budget cuts, but they made sure their Navy/Airforce had acquired the new Exocet missles and the French Etendard. we planned to send a task force before 1982 to send a warning but because then - like today its costs an arm and a leg to divert ships, and cancel NATO operations. but if i was the UK Government i'd send two Frigates and one of the new Type 45 destroyers, with possibly a Sub. regardless of the cost. if we learn from history we wont repeat the mistakes.
[Step4] Wait for a British government to come to power whose sole obsession is cutting the armed forces as much as they possibly can. Cameroon would really only have himself to blame if they did try something, seeing that he's done exactly what the great Maggie did as soon as she came to power (she was going to sell Invincible to Australia, I believe; he's gone one better by scrapping them already). People forget now just how much Mrs. T encouraged them to try something by her mania for cost-cutting.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#30    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:04 PM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 08 January 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

[Step4] Wait for a British government to come to power whose sole obsession is cutting the armed forces as much as they possibly can. Cameroon would really only have himself to blame if they did try something, seeing that he's done exactly what the great Maggie did as soon as she came to power (she was going to sell Invincible to Australia, I believe; he's gone one better by scrapping them already). People forget now just how much Mrs. T encouraged them to try something by her mania for cost-cutting.

The danger for the Argies is cutbacks will leave only one thing.

Nuclear Weapons!





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