Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

Animals are Moral, Scientists Argue


  • Please log in to reply
43 replies to this topic

#31    Coffey

Coffey

    Majestic 12 Operative

  • Member
  • 5,671 posts
  • Joined:09 Oct 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norwich UK

  • "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:29 PM

View PostIamLegend, on 17 November 2012 - 02:29 AM, said:


Those are both beautiful stories. :tu:

Don't see how anyone can say they don't have feelings or morality.


View Postjaguarsky, on 17 November 2012 - 02:31 AM, said:

Many years ago I worked at a riding stable. There was in residence there an very beautiful paint mare. She was glorious to look at but had the worst attitude of any horse in the barn. To say she was spirited was far off the mark. She was a big mean b****.

The man who owned her was an accomplished rider who enjoyed the challenge of such a horse. Now, this man had a girl friend who suffered from muscular dystrophy. She could not walk and her range of movement was very limited. He would bring his GF to the stable, set her on his beautiful, dangerous horse, (bareback, the GF could not sit in the saddle comfortably) the horse would walk around as delicately and carefully as if she were walking on ice. He would mount one of his other horses and they would spend an hour or two on the horses just walking leisurely around the farm.

That horse made a conscious choice to be gentle with that woman. That is morality. To call it anything else is disingenuous.


Beautiful story, thank you for sharing this. :tu:

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.

#32    CuriousGreek

CuriousGreek

    Remote Viewer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 583 posts
  • Joined:12 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Athens, Greece

  • Dang!

Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:15 PM

Almost all animals, especially dogs and cats, have feelings. That means they can love, but i don't think they have the ability to choose whether they will love a human or not.


#33    Purifier

Purifier

    Δ

  • Member
  • 2,368 posts
  • Joined:12 Feb 2010
  • Gender:Male

  • We don't need to conquer the world, we need to conquer our individual selves first. Then the world will be at peace.

Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:48 PM

Seems to me animals only reflect the way humans act and feel, when animals have come in enough human contact. I think they operate off of our feelings or vibe as to what is right and what is wrong, not their own. I don't think they have a individual moral compass, unlike what some Scientists and PETA members want us to believe.

When animals come in human contact and you train them enough, they will act like they have a moral compass because it's what you teach them and what they see you do. They watch you, they observe and they learn;  monkey see, monkey do and all that. So it's really only because we're intervening they act morally sometimes, even some of the wild animals. Other wise they know no better and if we weren't here, they'd go with their true nature of "doggie eats doggie" for survival and have no regrets about it.

Study the past, if you would divine the future.
- Confucius

#34    DKO

DKO

    Ω is Futile.

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,837 posts
  • Joined:28 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Western Australia

  • When you hear hoofbeats behind you, don't expect to see a zebra - Unless you're in Africa...

Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:58 AM

These chickens have morals... :P



The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe it. - Neil DeGrasse Tyson


Confucius Says:

Man who runs behind car gets exhausted.

Man who wants pretty nurse must be patient.


#35    Chooky88

Chooky88

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 311 posts
  • Joined:03 Jun 2005

Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:20 PM

I forget the source but trust me. They did a 2 rat experiment. Every time rat1 presses a lever he would get food and rat2 would receive an electric shock. When rat1 saw this he went hungry rather than cause rat2 (who was a stranger), any pain. The interesting human moral point is the scientists destroyed both rats at the end of the experiment. This is because a new experiments results would be tainted by the last one. Rats had higher morals than humans in this example.


#36    Odds

Odds

    Conspiracy Theorist

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 940 posts
  • Joined:25 Jul 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

  • -Never judge a man till you've walked a mile in his shoes... After that, who cares. Your a mile away and you have his shoes. -

Posted 24 November 2012 - 10:32 AM



Argue that isn't some sort of sense of morality.

~Today's mighty Oak is just yesterdays nut that held it's ground~

#37    redhen

redhen

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,825 posts
  • Joined:14 Aug 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Samsara

Posted 24 November 2012 - 07:23 PM

View PostChooky88, on 18 November 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

I forget the source but trust me. They did a 2 rat experiment. Every time rat1 presses a lever he would get food and rat2 would receive an electric shock. When rat1 saw this he went hungry rather than cause rat2 (who was a stranger), any pain. The interesting human moral point is the scientists destroyed both rats at the end of the experiment. This is because a new experiments results would be tainted by the last one. Rats had higher morals than humans in this example.

Yes,  this experiment was documented in Frans de Waal's book Primates and Philosophers; how morality evolved.


#38    JGirl

JGirl

    Pajama Goddess

  • Member
  • 9,030 posts
  • Joined:23 Sep 2010
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:British Columbia Canada

Posted 24 November 2012 - 07:28 PM

my unscientific opinion is that animals are people. even bugs.


#39    JGirl

JGirl

    Pajama Goddess

  • Member
  • 9,030 posts
  • Joined:23 Sep 2010
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:British Columbia Canada

Posted 24 November 2012 - 07:33 PM

View PostCuriousGreek, on 17 November 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

Almost all animals, especially dogs and cats, have feelings. That means they can love, but i don't think they have the ability to choose whether they will love a human or not.
i don't think humans have the ability to choose whether the will love or not either. i think we can choose to deny love by closing off, but when you feel love for someone it isn't because you decided to. it comes to you.
with dogs and cats i imagine they make that 'decision' based on a number of factors directly related to the person is question, and i think we as humans pretty much come upon it the same way


#40    Likely Guy

Likely Guy

    Undecided, mostly.

  • Member
  • 6,552 posts
  • Joined:09 May 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Likely, Canada

  • I might have been born yesterday
    but, I stayed up all night.

Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:49 AM

Earlier today I came across this story (from last year) about a widowed mother goose and a protective deer.

http://www.syracuse....bcam_track.html

The deer, somehow, knew that the nest had to be protected and made a decision to do so. Seems like morals to me.


#41    Dinosaur Jr

Dinosaur Jr

    I'm not a Mutant.

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,703 posts
  • Joined:23 May 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Address Unknown

Posted 25 November 2012 - 04:06 AM

Well, I've seen some stuff.

I saw a stray dog chase away a stray mother cat, but it's kitten was left behind, as soon as the dog saw the kitten, it seemed to 'like it', gently licked and felt it and maybe worried for the little guy.


#42    jbefumo

jbefumo

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 64 posts
  • Joined:22 Aug 2011

Posted 27 November 2012 - 06:40 PM

Anyone who argues that animals are devoid of spirit probably lacks a soul themselves.


#43    CuriousGreek

CuriousGreek

    Remote Viewer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 583 posts
  • Joined:12 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Athens, Greece

  • Dang!

Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:11 PM

View PostJGirl, on 24 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

i don't think humans have the ability to choose whether the will love or not either. i think we can choose to deny love by closing off, but when you feel love for someone it isn't because you decided to. it comes to you.
with dogs and cats i imagine they make that 'decision' based on a number of factors directly related to the person is question, and i think we as humans pretty much come upon it the same way
  Well, i agree with you, but what does happen, when you break-up with someone? In the end you'll be trying to overcome your feelings about him/her and that's probably one way of controlling yourself (and therefore what you feel), so i believe that we kind of have the ability to deciding if we will love someone and who should we forget forever (i'm not implying, that there won't be any leftovers from your love for this person inside you, but you have to and you could as well leave it behind, so that you can move forward, if you get, what i mean). As for dogs and cats, i believe, that they can create special love bonds with a person, no matter what this person would be. I hope i haven't made you confused. If you want me to explain, what i said, more simply, just tell me. Have a great day :)

Edited by CuriousGreek, 29 November 2012 - 06:12 PM.

Αν ανάμεσα σ’ όλον τον κόσμο,
νιώθεις πως δεν υπάρχουνε λύσεις,
τότε μόνο δυο μάτια μπορούνε,
να σε κάνουν να θέλεις να ζήσεις.

#44    leupgaru

leupgaru

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Joined:13 Dec 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:australia

  • werewolf incognito

Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:53 AM

animals are more prone to love than be evil but scientits, yes scientits are sooo smart they will immediately give their so called undeniable conclusions to what transpire to such behavior of an animal that acts or behave as not to be expect from an animal. example, the lion that adopts a deer. the leopard that killed the mother baboon and adopts the baby baboon. the hippo that gave a mouth to mouth recessutation to that small deer the crocodile almost ate but died later.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users