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US servicewomen challenge combat role ban


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#16    OverSword

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:37 PM

View PostWyrdlight, on 29 November 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

So, your not against war?

Your merely against a wars fought under certain premises?
Nope.  I'm against war.
If a war is brought to me on my doorstep then I have no qualms fighting it.  I refuse to go somewhere else and fight one.  If everyone thought like me there wouldn't be many wars.


#17    Merc14

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:40 PM

View PostOverSword, on 29 November 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

Nope.  I'm against war.
If a war is brought to me on my doorstep then I have no qualms fighting it.  I refuse to go somewhere else and fight one.  If everyone thought like me there wouldn't be many wars.

In some cases not going somewhere else to fight one guarantees that it will be brought to your doorstep.

Nice midterms democrats.  As Pelosi says, "Embrace the suck".

#18    OverSword

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:49 PM

View PostMerc14, on 29 November 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

In some cases not going somewhere else to fight one guarantees that it will be brought to your doorstep.
You know, you may be right.  However, since it can easily be proven that most wars are based on lies and making profit I will not volunteer to be shipped off to some 3rd world country to make some miserable persons life more miserable, and I refuse to have extra respect or sympathy for those who do.


#19    OverSword

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:50 PM

trueism: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.


#20    Wyrdlight

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:54 PM

View PostOverSword, on 29 November 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

trueism: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Indeed thus we should have no good intentions?


#21    OverSword

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:13 PM

View PostWyrdlight, on 29 November 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

Indeed thus we should have no good intentions?
I was going to respond with an explanation but one really shouldn't be necessary.  It's obvious that some people believe That every death since 9/11 is justified.  IMO, people like that are;
  • thoughtless
  • unsympathetic
  • brainwashed
Some people actually believe that the USA are white cowboy hat wearing dealers of truth and freedom.  These people don't read much history, but do watch alot of TV.


#22    Dredimus

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:30 PM

View PostOverSword, on 29 November 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

You know, you may be right.  However, since it can easily be proven that most wars are based on lies and making profit I will not volunteer to be shipped off to some 3rd world country to make some miserable persons life more miserable, and I refuse to have extra respect or sympathy for those who do.


   I've not asked for your respect nor your sympathy, I have no issues with what I have done. I sleep pretty well most nights. I have no complaint about the conditions overseas as a soldier, I knew full well when I enlisted what my life would be like from then on. Now, as for your "miserable life" comment... I find it sickening that you view another human being that way but I suppose you can have that luxury while sitting stateside drinking your cola, having your dinner, voting, driving, getting an "education" and working a job for decent wages... oh, and when it comes to some one else being in our country as an invasion force... I wont ask you to stand up... my brothers and I have that handled... besides, what fun would it be to have us in the field and not have people like you to tell us how horrible we are.


#23    Drayno

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:32 PM

If a woman wants to fight and die for their country.

So be it.

Let women fight.

"Let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings."
- William Shakespeare, Richard II, Act III, Scene II

#24    OverSword

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:41 PM

View PostDredimus, on 29 November 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

   I've not asked for your respect nor your sympathy, I have no issues with what I have done. I sleep pretty well most nights. I have no complaint about the conditions overseas as a soldier, I knew full well when I enlisted what my life would be like from then on. Now, as for your "miserable life" comment... I find it sickening that you view another human being that way but I suppose you can have that luxury while sitting stateside drinking your cola, having your dinner, voting, driving, getting an "education" and working a job for decent wages... oh, and when it comes to some one else being in our country as an invasion force... I wont ask you to stand up... my brothers and I have that handled... besides, what fun would it be to have us in the field and not have people like you to tell us how horrible we are.
Good.  I'm glad you feel justified and fulfilled in what you chose to do.  I hope you also felt it was necessary.


And if you believe that you going to the mid-east made it possible for me to drive, vote, work, etc...I was doing all of that before you went to war and likely before you were born. You weren't fight Hitler or Hiorohito.

Edited by OverSword, 29 November 2012 - 07:47 PM.


#25    Babe Ruth

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:54 PM

View PostDredimus, on 29 November 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

Way to over simplify the life of a soldier as well as being derogatory and sexist in 4 short sentences.... I myself was a combat engineer, airborne, sapper.... I have no blood lust, but I served my country proudly and did what was required of me to survive and move through different situations. These women want the same right.

My young nephew is in the US Army, and his intentions are noble, just like yours.

However, (and he understands this just like many did back in 1970) you, him and me might have THOUGHT we were serving our country, but in reality, we were serving the government, and the two are not the same.

Our country and its government are 2 separate entities.  They are not the same thing, though the powers-that-be are thrilled when people think they are the same.  Indeed, the propaganda ALWAYS blends the two and makes them indistinguishable.

And in case you have not realized it yet, General Eisenhower understood full well that the marriage of government and industry is an UNHOLY one.  He warned future generations to beware.  Sadly, we ignored him, and those who control things are in very firm control, and have been for years.  Contemporary american 'wars' are but military aggression in advancement of empire.


#26    Dredimus

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:00 PM

View PostOverSword, on 29 November 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

Good.  I'm glad you feel justified and fulfilled in what you chose to do.  I hope you also felt it was necessary.


And if you believe that you going to the mid-east made it possible for me to drive, vote, work, etc...I was doing all of that before you went to war and likely before you were born. You weren't fight Hitler or Hiorohito.


I may not have been there, but men like me were and always have been. However, what I was saying was not that I or we provided YOU with that... We all know you were born in the US and therefore most of those things came easy... and its easy for you to sit here and judge them as you have no clue as to who they really are...  "miserable lives" indeed...


#27    Corp

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:18 PM

It should be noted that several countries, including Canada, has allowed women to serve in combat roles for decades with no deal breaking problems. If we can do it I don't see why it would be a problem for the US to put the policy in place.


And OverSword I believe you mean that you're against interventionism, not against war. Protecting your country against a foreign invader is still a war.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#28    Dredimus

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:26 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 29 November 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

My young nephew is in the US Army, and his intentions are noble, just like yours.

However, (and he understands this just like many did back in 1970) you, him and me might have THOUGHT we were serving our country, but in reality, we were serving the government, and the two are not the same.

Our country and its government are 2 separate entities.  They are not the same thing, though the powers-that-be are thrilled when people think they are the same.  Indeed, the propaganda ALWAYS blends the two and makes them indistinguishable.

And in case you have not realized it yet, General Eisenhower understood full well that the marriage of government and industry is an UNHOLY one.  He warned future generations to beware.  Sadly, we ignored him, and those who control things are in very firm control, and have been for years.  Contemporary american 'wars' are but military aggression in advancement of empire.

    Dont forget that this thread isnt about my intentions or "nobility"... its about equal rights and the fact that these women want to serve as equals their male counterparts. I have no delusions about what our government is, if you, any of you, would take the time to read anything I post you would see that I am for the people, not the government. The current AND past administrations have so damaged this country in the last 50 years that its almost unrecognizable. As far as the government is concerned, you could call me a minimalist. They should keep their noses out of industry and let people live for themselves. As for my time in the middle east, yes, that was for my country. Those who are not there, truely do not know. It is my humble opinion that its better to stop the enemy abroad that to wait for them to land on my porch. The last time they knocked on our door, we lost thousands of lives.  Now to your bolded statement. Please explain this "Empire" theory. Because when I sit back and take it all in, I dont see it as empire building...... Now, the romans had an empire, they moved in, conquered an area and then left behind their own people to control what was left of the decimated population. This is also the same thing the Russians did to Afghanistan...... Conquer and rule as a tyrant. Now, the US has moved in and changed alot of that. Now, if you are talking about the fuel situation.... Why would we be building an empire for China? As thats who will be building the pipeline the conspiracy nuts yelp about constantly.


#29    OverSword

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:13 PM

Hey Dred, don't get me wrong.  I have no doubt that you and the vast, vast majority of American servicemen and women are good conscientious loyal people.
The empire that Babe is reffering to is an economic empire.  Money is the reason our troops are mobilized.  off topic here but OPEC has a deal with the USA mad by Nixon in the 70's that they will only sell oil for dollars.  Since the worlds economy is based on oil that made the US dollar the default currency determining the value of every other currency in the world.  Any action to change that system mobilizes our war machine.  Saddam Hussein, while under UN sanctions, was only permitted to trade oil for food and medicine.  The reason we went to war with Iraq, a nation that had no provable involvment in 9/11, was because we discovered they were covertly selling oil for euros.  That undermined the worlds economy by setting a dangerous precedent.  So we took him out.  Iran recently proposed a system to trade thier oil for gold, now despite the fact that the former head of the CIA said they are not trying to develop nukes, we are threatening them.  Since they have no nukes the question would logically be, why?  the answer seems obvious to me.  The really sad part about Iran is that the country is f'd up because of actions by the USA and UK on behalf of British Petroleum's oil interests.  We overthew the democratically elected government of Iran because they wanted to nationalize thier oil industry and keep some of thier own money.  We installed a dictator, the shaw of iran, and naturally they overthew him and replaced him with a system hostile to us, thier proven enemies.  Pretty much it's our meddeling since WWII that is to blame for how the entire middle east is.  Corrupt, repressive, backwards.
All of the things I've pointed out here are just the tip of a very big, very dirty iceberg.  War does not stop war.  At some point we will start fixing all of this through fair dealing and correct behaviour or there will be a recconing.

Edited by OverSword, 29 November 2012 - 10:15 PM.


#30    pallidin

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:26 AM

No, no, no.

The real problem is young service men and women wanting to have sex, thus leaving(or not observing) their assigned posts.

Then, as stated previously, the natural instinct for a male to protect a female which "might" compromise a hard mission.

Just my opinion. Nothing against women at all.





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