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The Book with Seven Seals - FOUND


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#226    Peter Cox

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:45 AM

View PostTheSearcher, on 16 January 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

It's something we have tried to tell him a few times already, "you can't just use a concordance to translate a text", but we were and apparently still are wrong.
Another thing I do start to find rather funny is that for someone who tells us not to rely on opinions or preconceptions, he does spend a awfull lot of time telling us he didn't come up with the discovery and the CD's, but Ronald Pegg did. I still think that he and Pegg are one and the same person at this point.

LOL - no the best thing so far, is "dont question the facts or the research, make up your own mind" attitude and repeated saying of Mr Pegg lol.

Ok so with out questioning anything my minds made up..... its still rubbish,


#227    TheSearcher

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:12 AM

View PostPeter Cox, on 16 January 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

LOL - no the best thing so far, is "dont question the facts or the research, make up your own mind" attitude and repeated saying of Mr Pegg lol.

Ok so with out questioning anything my minds made up..... its still rubbish,

Isn't "dont question the facts or the research, make up your own mind" a contradiction anyway? Just wondering.

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#228    Peter Cox

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:10 AM

You are 100% correct unless you a sheep and dont question but just follow.


#229    Oniomancer

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 06:47 PM

View PostEddy_P, on 15 January 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

You do not know that for sure. As you pointed out, the text states that the ancient writer said “like” not that it ‘was’.
A young black female Bos Primigenius calf without formed horns does look “like” the she-wolf icon from the Ancients cd-rom.
Posted Image
Posted Image

Point 1. The ‘wolf’ you show does not look anything like the ‘She-wolf’ icon from the Ancients cd-rom (pictured above).

(You are comparing ‘apples’ with ‘oranges’.)


A young black female Bos Primigenius calf without formed horns does look “like” the she-wolf icon from the Ancients cd-rom.


Point 2. You have already acknowledged that I have explained this. It is just that you do not like my explanation. My explanation compared a young auroch calf (pictured above)

The rather obvious multiple teats ought to be the giveaway. Unlike canines, bovines only have four, all prominently situated on a single udder.  The only large animals with a similar arrangement to dogs are pigs, which the Isrealites obviously had little to do with. One would think anyone in a culture where animal husbandry was the rule rather than the exception would recognize the distinction.

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#230    DieChecker

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:15 PM

I've seen hundreds of people who can quote the Bible, chapter and verse, who had something to proove and few, if any, of them were able to convince me that their Fringy idea was correct based on their cherry picked quotes.

Having great knowledge of scripture was one of Jesus's ways of knowing who his enemies were. They were either crazed demon possessed people, or they were the law enforcing pharisees.

I think the wolf is obviously a wolf and not a calf. Just my opinion. If this was a Poll, I think it would swing 99% in favor of Wolf.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#231    Quaentum

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:57 PM

View PostEddy_P, on 16 January 2013 - 03:14 AM, said:

Chapters and verses in the Bible are a modern addition.

“The original manuscripts did not contain the chapter and verse divisions in the numbered form familiar to modern readers.” Source: http://en.wikipedia....es_of_the_Bible


Punctuation was added along with the chapters and verses.

Chapters:

Archbishop Stephen Langton and Cardinal Hugo de Sancto Caro developed different schemas for systematic division of the Bible in the early 13th century. It is the system of Archbishop Langton on which the modern chapter divisions are based.


Verses:

The first person to divide New Testament chapters into verses was Italian Dominican biblical scholar Santi Pagnini (1470–1541), but his system was never widely adopted.  Robert Estienne created an alternate numbering in his 1551 edition of the Greek New Testament  which was also used in his 1553 publication of the Bible in French. Estienne's system of division was widely adopted, and it is this system which is found in almost all modern bibles.


You say that

The semi-colon was added when the chapters and verses were arranged. This is why they appear where they do in the links you gave. Generally scholars and laypersons believe the chapters, verses, and punctuation to be original. They are not.


As the semi-colon was not an original Greek sentence mark, your claim that it ‘joins’ the two sections is misguided and unfounded.


The other source I found was for informational value for anyone who would like to see the Greek, English translation and Greek variants on one site.  The source I used was the Codex Sinaiticus.


As I can not read Greek, I can not put the text in the proper structure and must rely on English translations for that.  Fortunately Everdred supplied what was necessary to show that your view is incorrect.


Eddy_P said:

’Tithing’ is the religious concept named and described in the Bible.

Ronald Pegg found it was used by the time travelers to encode the military and other numbers in the Bible told to ancient people in over the 1,000 format.

That part of Pegg’s work has not yet been released, so no, the evidence is not yet available to you.


Tithe per the wikipedia  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe


Quote

A tithe (pron.: /ˈtð/; from Old English: teogoþa "tenth") is a one-tenth part of something, paid as a contribution to a religious organization or compulsory tax to government.


For Mr Pegg to have discovered it was used by time travelers there must first be evidence of time travelers.  Such evidence is at this point non-existant.  I'm willing to state that the supposed evidence that is not avilable, never will be.


It appears to me as if you are using circular reasoning.  You are using unevidenced time travelers as evidence that information on cd's ended up in the Bible which is evidence for the existence of time travelers.


Eddy_P said:

Incorrect comments. John says…

Rev 1:1-2 "...he sent...his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record...of all things that he saw"


Rev 1:19 "Write the things which thou hast seen..."

Rev 5:1 "I saw in the right hand side...a book written within and on the backside, sealed with 7 seals..."

Rev 10:8 "...Go take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel..."

Haven’t you examined the extractions from the Book of Revelation and conducted the TEST from the OP ?

In his first hand personal account, a historical person named John, on Patmos Island in 95 CE relates how an Angel showed him visions and told him to write it all down. Those 'visions' came from a special book being held by the Angel, sealed with Seven Seals.

59 descriptions of that ‘Book’ and its contents (from Revelation 4:6-7, 5:1, 5:5,6, 6:1-8, 7:2, 7:4 and 11:1, 13:1-2,11, 21:2,10,12,15) have been matched to the Ancients cd-rom and its contents (at a match percentage of over 90).

This seems to very much support Ronald Pegg’s claim.


Codex Sinaiticus said:

1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show to his servants things that must shortly take place, and having sent by his angel he made it known to his servant John,
2 who became a witness to the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ, whatever things he saw.

19 Write therefore the things that thou sawest, and the things that are, and those that shall be after these,

4:10 the twenty-four elders fall before him that sits upon the throne, and worship him that live, from age to age, and throw their crowns before the throne, saying:
11 Worthy art thou, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for thou didst create all things, and because of thy will they existed and were created.
5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the back, sealed with seven seals.

10:8 And the voice that I heard from heaven again spoke to me and said: Go, take the little book that is opened in the hand of the angel that stands on the sea and on the earth.
9 And I went to the angel, saying to him that he should give me the little book. And he said to me: Take it and eat it up, and it will make thy belly bitter, but in thy mouth it shall be sweet as honey.
10 And I took the little book out of the hand of the angel and ate it up; and it was in my mouth as honey, sweet; and when I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

it is true that John is told to write what he sees per verse 1:19.

As can be seen in the verses, there are two books not just one.  The book with 7 seals is in the hand of the one sitting on the throne who is identified in the previous verses as God.  The angel has the little book that is opened in his hand.  It is clear that John does not get access to the book with 7 seals so could not write about anything within it and it refutes that part of your theory that claims the book with 7 seals was a cd-rom.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#232    Quaentum

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:58 PM

View PostEverdred, on 16 January 2013 - 05:01 AM, said:

I'll just quickly explain the Revelations 7:4 translation.  Here's the Greek text:

καὶ ἤκουσα τὸν ἀριθμὸν τῶν ἐσφραγισμένων, ἑκατὸν τεσσεράκοντα τέσσαρες χιλιάδες, ἐσφραγισμένοι ἐκ πάσης φυλῆς υἱῶν Ἰσραήλ

Ancient Greek is an inflected language, and as part of this inflection all nouns, pronouns, and adjectives (including participles, which are adjectives formed from a verbal stem) have endings that change to reflect differences of gender, number, and case (= how the word functions in the sentence).  

So the discussion here is centered on "τῶν ἐσφραγισμένων", which is generally translated "of the sealed."  But what does that mean, exactly?  Let's examine it more closely.  First of all, "ἐσφραγισμένων" isn't a noun, but rather an adjective.  More specifically, it has a verbal root ("sphragis" meaning "to seal"), and we can see from the leading epsilon that it is denoting past time, while the -men- infix denotes that it's a passive participle, which together make it a perfect passive participle, which as mentioned previously is a verbal adjective.  But we see in front of it "τῶν", the definite article ("the"), which means that this adjective is being used as a substantive (meaning it functions as a noun because the noun is implied and does not need to be stated).  We know that "τῶν" goes with "ἐσφραγισμένων" both because of position and because their endings are the same, -ων.  This ending denotes a genitive case and plural number--indicating that it is referring to multiple people as the implied noun.

This all gives us a literal translation of that two word phrase as "of those who were sealed", and with the "τὸν ἀριθμὸν" (which is an accusative singular, meaning it's a direct object) we get "the number of those (people) who were sealed."

And as to the confusion for the KJV translation, look at the Greek once again:

καὶ ἤκουσα τὸν ἀριθμὸν τῶν ἐσφραγισμένων, ἑκατὸν τεσσεράκοντα τέσσαρες χιλιάδες, ἐσφραγισμένοι ἐκ πάσης φυλῆς υἱῶν Ἰσραήλ

So "esphagismenon" ("of those who were sealed"), 144000, "esphagismenoi" (-oi is the nominative plural masculine form, which confirms that we are talking about multiple people being sealed).  This is why the KJV has "and there were sealed"--the word for "sealed" is used twice, and the editors of the KJV didn't read it with a punctuation between the number and "esphagismenoi", so they're literally just reading "144,000 (people) were sealed".

And this should serve as a practical warning that you can't just use a concordance to translate a text--you need to understand all of the underlying grammar of the language to properly put the words together.

Thanks for this info.  I am going to keep a link to it for future reference.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#233    TheSearcher

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:46 PM

View PostOniomancer, on 16 January 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

The rather obvious multiple teats ought to be the giveaway. Unlike canines, bovines only have four, all prominently situated on a single udder.  The only large animals with a similar arrangement to dogs are pigs, which the Isrealites obviously had little to do with. One would think anyone in a culture where animal husbandry was the rule rather than the exception would recognize the distinction.


View PostDieChecker, on 16 January 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

I've seen hundreds of people who can quote the Bible, chapter and verse, who had something to proove and few, if any, of them were able to convince me that their Fringy idea was correct based on their cherry picked quotes.

Having great knowledge of scripture was one of Jesus's ways of knowing who his enemies were. They were either crazed demon possessed people, or they were the law enforcing pharisees.

I think the wolf is obviously a wolf and not a calf. Just my opinion. If this was a Poll, I think it would swing 99% in favor of Wolf.

That's the point I have been trying to make. There is no way in hell they could not have made the difference between a calf and a wolf. The image from the CD is clearly a wolf. And yes the quotes are cherry picked to suit the CD which in this case proves nothing.

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So god made me an atheist. Who are you to question his wisdom?!

#234    DieChecker

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:01 AM

View PostTheSearcher, on 16 January 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

That's the point I have been trying to make. There is no way in hell they could not have made the difference between a calf and a wolf. The image from the CD is clearly a wolf. And yes the quotes are cherry picked to suit the CD which in this case proves nothing.
Could probably cherry pick examples from the Koran, or the Rig Veda, and find as many connections. Probably you could cross reference any three scripts of The Big Bang Theory and get as many hits of correlation between that and the Bible.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#235    calaf

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:17 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 14 December 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

it's a mysteriously time traveling 1990s Pentium 286 with a copy of Encarta on it that primitve man despite Enligh not existing fo 1000 years, no power, an interface that is godawful even for the 1990s and **** al evidence it's proof that there is no god, Jesus was a fraud and every discovery ever made was the result of a CD made in the 90s.
Ahh! Now I understand!


#236    Eddy_P

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:05 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 16 January 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

I think the wolf is obviously a wolf and not a calf. Just my opinion. If this was a Poll, I think it would swing 99% in favor of Wolf.
OK, so you disagree with 1 out of the over 200 extracted descriptions matched to the contents of the Ancients cd-rom.

You may not have noticed that on the on-line evaluation TEST page, I have given it a preselected ‘maybe’ and not a ‘yes’.

So you may be surprised to learn that while I support Mr Pegg’s explanation, I personally only give it 50%

We have, after all, been talking about Mr Pegg’s explanation.


As far as a poll goes, the stats are speaking for themselves.

So far from 18 people, the average is 95.41 percent match of descriptions/contents to the Ancients cd-rom

72.63

92.18

93.30

95.81

96.37

97.21

97.49


My personal score is the second to lowest one shown, 92.18

Therefore other people are being more generous with their ‘opinions’ than myself.




#237    Eddy_P

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:20 AM

View PostTheSearcher, on 16 January 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

And yes the quotes are cherry picked to suit the CD which in this case proves nothing.
No.
From the link in the OP, three biblical writers who document an encounter with an ‘angel’ relate what they were shown (and told).
Ezekiel does this in 101 often sequential verses.
Daniel does this in 69 often sequential verses.
John does this in 59 often sequential verses.

220 (combined, excluding double ups) extractions regarding the ‘book’ held by the ‘angel’ with the three writers’ personal descriptions of what they saw from it, is not cherry picking.


#238    DieChecker

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:13 AM

View PostEddy_P, on 17 January 2013 - 02:05 AM, said:


OK, so you disagree with 1 out of the over 200 extracted descriptions matched to the contents of the Ancients cd-rom.

You may not have noticed that on the on-line evaluation TEST page, I have given it a preselected ‘maybe’ and not a ‘yes’.

So you may be surprised to learn that while I support Mr Pegg’s explanation, I personally only give it 50%

We have, after all, been talking about Mr Pegg’s explanation.

That is just the one that is being currently covered in this thread. I am sure that if we looked at the other 199, we'd find 1/3 or 1/2 are just as contrived. I am really sorry that I don't have time to go over every single one. So, all I have time for is to reference the ones I've seen/read on this thread.

Quote

As far as a poll goes, the stats are speaking for themselves.

So far from 18 people, the average is 95.41 percent match of descriptions/contents to the Ancients cd-rom

72.63

92.18

93.30

95.81

96.37

97.21

97.49


My personal score is the second to lowest one shown, 92.18

Therefore other people are being more generous with their ‘opinions’ than myself.


That is not an objective poll. It is a poll of likely believers who Want to read what is on the site. Look at your "Visitor" count of how many people have visited and compare to how many took the test. That is a better number to use to evaluate whether people believe or not.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#239    DingoLingo

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:36 AM

thank you kmt for closing the other thread :D

one down.. one to go


#240    Peter Cox

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:29 AM

LOL - eddy you are so stubbon.

I bet if I picked up a fishing book (fishing is my sport) I could make connections to the bible, a TV show and real life experinces.

Then I could put a question air together to reflect those connections with ease.

All Im saying is that your self test on YOUR site is biased and set up to reflect the results you want it too.





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