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If Adolf Hitler had what the NSA has now

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#1    Raptor Witness

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 09:26 AM

History is full of bad characters, too many to count. So when history is repeated, and it will be, what will be the cost to humanity if someone has access to virtually every thought we've had for the past 10 years? How much quicker could an enemy be located and dispensed with if you know everything about him?

* snip *

Given this, it amazes me how our protestant Christian Congressmen so boldly ignore our possible plight. Are they so certain that they won't be here to deal with a monster of history, such that they're willing to gamble the lives of everyone else by handing over the keys to our entire lives?

Perhaps these brave Congressmen believe that the monster, need gaze only into our eyes to tell what we think about him, or that he won't be a man like they are.

There must be a few bright people at the NSA who can guess what this database could be used for, and I expect they're all Catholic.

Try some founding foresight ...


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Edited by Saru, 08 June 2013 - 03:37 PM.
Removed unsuitable comment

Posted Image "Make Manifest Destiny a memory ..." 12-7-2011  "When the earth is displaced fully three times at the point of destiny ..." 10-29-2013

#2    and then

and then

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 10:13 AM

It amazes me that so few people these days are even aware of the predictions made about this time we are living in.  They seem to be in an angry kind of denial about it all because if they admit it might be true then something MIGHT be required of them.  The time just ahead is going to be extremely frightening and destructive on a scale unknown to this point.  The 50 million souls lost in WWII will be like a pin prick compared to the mass death that the world is going to experience.  I think the stage is set and the players are all taking their places.  This technology will be used against those who survive the coming, initial war.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#3    Rlyeh

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 10:20 AM

View Postand then, on 08 June 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

It amazes me that so few people these days are even aware of the predictions made about this time we are living in.  They seem to be in an angry kind of denial about it all because if they admit it might be true then something MIGHT be required of them.  The time just ahead is going to be extremely frightening and destructive on a scale unknown to this point.  The 50 million souls lost in WWII will be like a pin prick compared to the mass death that the world is going to experience.  I think the stage is set and the players are all taking their places.  This technology will be used against those who survive the coming, initial war.
They probably have better things to do than retrofitting asinine predictions.


#4    Ashotep

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:01 PM

If Hitler had what the NSA has now I suspect the war would of turned out different.


#5    Thanato

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:11 PM

View PostHilander, on 08 June 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

If Hitler had what the NSA has now I suspect the war would of turned out different.

How would the Russians have not crushed the German War Machine?

Would the Royal Canadian Navy not have protected merchant ships heading to England?

Would the US Not have destroyed the Japanese?

Would the English not have destroyed the German Air Force over England?

Would D-Day not of Happened?

Phone records wouldn't of turned the tide of war.

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#6    and then

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 01:06 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 08 June 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

They probably have better things to do than retrofitting asinine predictions.
No doubt.  Like making the world a better place.... for corporations...

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#7    Jessica Christ

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 01:28 PM

Does this thread belong in Alternative History?

Indeed if WWII-era Germany had such technology we would have also have had it. A balance is always present.

Conspiracy theories and prophecies are always present as well and they too change. How many did Hitler believe in?

Had Hitler not believed in conspiracy theory (Protocols of the Elders of Zion as being written by Jews for one) or in prophecy (Nazi Germany would last 1000 years and destroy others in the process) then maybe he would have had better chances.

Had he listened to the generals of avoiding a two-front war instead of trying to play a general himself then his chances would have increased.

Conspiracy theory and prophecies of doom and gloom are the domain of the paranoid. A bad choice that leads to unhealthy expression. One doesn't have to plan a holocaust to always believe and claim one is coming anyways...

No, one doesn't have to join the mainstream but one is always welcome to. The world moves on. All prophecies around Israel are less than 200 years old. Christians didn't believe that before.

When the Middle East is stabilized and the political center of the world moves to Asia we will see old prophecies give way to newer ones. So which ones are true? What is true is focusing on doom and gloom is a waste of life energy.

Edited by The world needs you, 08 June 2013 - 01:38 PM.


#8    and then

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 06:24 PM

View PostThe world needs you, on 08 June 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

Does this thread belong in Alternative History?

Indeed if WWII-era Germany had such technology we would have also have had it. A balance is always present.

Conspiracy theories and prophecies are always present as well and they too change. How many did Hitler believe in?

Had Hitler not believed in conspiracy theory (Protocols of the Elders of Zion as being written by Jews for one) or in prophecy (Nazi Germany would last 1000 years and destroy others in the process) then maybe he would have had better chances.

Had he listened to the generals of avoiding a two-front war instead of trying to play a general himself then his chances would have increased.

Conspiracy theory and prophecies of doom and gloom are the domain of the paranoid. A bad choice that leads to unhealthy expression. One doesn't have to plan a holocaust to always believe and claim one is coming anyways...

No, one doesn't have to join the mainstream but one is always welcome to. The world moves on. All prophecies around Israel are less than 200 years old. Christians didn't believe that before.

When the Middle East is stabilized and the political center of the world moves to Asia we will see old prophecies give way to newer ones. So which ones are true? What is true is focusing on doom and gloom is a waste of life energy.
Who was Isaiah, Zecharia, Daniel,Habbakuk and Jeremiah writing about then?  Anyone who thinks that discussing and planning for the transition of the earth into a new era is a waste of time is obviously looking at the wrong things in life.  End times prophecies are not, by their nature, "doom and gloom".  No more so than an expectant mom would say that labor pains are useless doom and gloom experiences.  These events presage a wonderful future.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#9    Kowalski

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 06:26 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 08 June 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:



Hitler did have the best there was to be had ...


~

Yes, he actually did. Many of the rocket scientists who later worked for NASA like von Braun, had worked as scientists for the Nazis. Some interesting articles I came across today:

How Wall Street bailed out the Nazis: http://consortiumnew...-out-the-nazis/

Hitler's Shadow Reaches Today: http://consortiumnew...s-toward-today/

People also seem to forget it wasn't just the Jewish population who were put into camps, but anyone who disagreed with Hitler's policies.

Check out: http://www.historyle...olice_state.htm





Quote

The Nazi Police State


The Nazi Police State was to ensure that everybody did as they were told - or paid the price. The Nazi Police were controlled by Heinrich Himmler and his feared secret police - the Gestapo - did as it pleased in Nazi Germany. Children’s loyalty could be developed with a policy of indoctrination via education and the Hitler Youth movement. Time and planning spent in these areas would bring a suitable reward for Hitler.

Adults were a different proposition. Some adults clearly supported Hitler - as theMarch 1933 election showed. But the same election clearly showed that a substantial number of Germans did not support Hitler and the Nazis. These people were likely to be a constant thorn for Hitler unless they were dealt with. For these people, the Nazis developed a policy of intimidation. Fear became a by-word for those who did not support Hitler. The wrong comment overheard by a Nazi official could have very serious consequences.
Hitler’s police state worked on the rule that if you said nothing, no harm, could come to you. If you had doubts about the way the country was going, you kept them to yourself - or paid the price. As nearly 17 million people had not voted for either the Nazis or the Nationalist in March 1933, a large and visible police force was required to keep this sizeable group under observation and control.
In Nazi Germany the police were allowed to arrest people on suspicion that they were about to do wrong. This gave the police huge powers. All local police units had to draw up a list of people in their locality who might be suspected of being "Enemies of the State". This list was given to the Gestapo - the Secret Police. The Gestapo had the power to do as it liked. Its leader - Reinhard Heydrich - was one of the most feared man in Nazi Germany. His immediate chief was Heinrich Himmler. Both men ran their respective branches with ruthless efficiency.

Who would get arrested?
The list was intentionally expansive. Anybody considered to be a political threat was arrested;those who made jokes about the Nazi Party were also arrested (jokes about Hitler were punished with death); the "work shy" were also arrested (this fitted in exactly with Hitler’s plan to reduce unemployment as an unemployed person would be offered work at a Labour Exchange and if they refused it as too menial for them, they would be arrested as work shy. As no-one in concentration camps counted as unemployed, the figures for unemployment had to come down; "Bibelforscher’s" were also arrested (these were people who would only seek guidance from the Bible and rejected all Nazi ideas and they also refused to do military service); homosexuals were also arrested and the SS used this as a common tactic to discredit someone. habitual criminals were also arrested.
In 1936, the Gestapo Law meant that the activities of the Gestapo were free from any review by courts of law. This law effectively meant that the Gestapo became a law unto themselves. This non-uniformed branch of the SS became justifiably feared just as the visible presence of the black uniformed SS men did. Himmler'sview on the SS was simple. In 1943 he said:

"We have always selected the highest and abandoned the lowest. As long as we maintain this principle, the Order (the SS) will remain healthy. After the war, we shall really build up our Order......it will provide Germany with an elite. This elite will provide leaders to industry, agriculture and politics and the activities of the mind."




"Those who do not know history, are doomed to repeat it."


#10    third_eye

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 06:37 PM

View PostKowalski, on 08 June 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

~snip

"Those who do not know history, are doomed to repeat it."




Now we know what's all this controlling what history is or is not really means don't we ?

When I was looking to know who Little Adolf was ... I went all the way back to when he was just wanting to be an artist ... to paint ... he was not born into what he became.
He was made into what he was ... and he was happy being made into what they wanted him to be ... he was absolutely sure it was that that was what he was meant to be.

Silly little Adolf wished he was just a little artist in the end ... and he was not a 'failure' as an artist ... he was actually pretty good.

And yes ... there were actually more Christians and other denominations of Christianity that were murdered than Jews.
But then the Jews that made and gained the mileage from the atrocities doesn't want it to be widely known as such.

:tu:


~edit to add : Project Paperclip ... the Nazis given safe passage after the fall of Nazi germany wasn't just the rocket scientists ... there were those involved in much more sinister research ... research and 'science' gained from the concentration camp experiments were along on the boat trips and eventually becoming Americans ... too.

.

Edited by third_eye, 08 June 2013 - 06:44 PM.

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#11    Kowalski

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 07:00 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 08 June 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

[/color]

Now we know what's all this controlling what history is or is not really means don't we ?

When I was looking to know who Little Adolf was ... I went all the way back to when he was just wanting to be an artist ... to paint ... he was not born into what he became.
He was made into what he was ... and he was happy being made into what they wanted him to be ... he was absolutely sure it was that that was what he was meant to be.

Silly little Adolf wished he was just a little artist in the end ... and he was not a 'failure' as an artist ... he was actually pretty good.

And yes ... there were actually more Christians and other denominations of Christianity that were murdered than Jews.
But then the Jews that made and gained the mileage from the atrocities doesn't want it to be widely known as such.

:tu:


~edit to add : Project Paperclip ... the Nazis given safe passage after the fall of Nazi germany wasn't just the rocket scientists ... there were those involved in much more sinister research ... research and 'science' gained from the concentration camp experiments were along on the boat trips and eventually becoming Americans ... too.

.

I believe there were several drug companies, such as Bayer, which were involved in testing certain drugs on concentration camp victims, also. :no:


#12    Raptor Witness

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 09:24 PM

View PostThe world needs you, on 08 June 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

Does this thread belong in Alternative History?

............Conspiracy theory and prophecies of doom and gloom are the domain of the paranoid. A bad choice that leads to unhealthy expression. One doesn't have to plan a holocaust to always believe and claim one is coming anyways...
Before the recent revelations from within our intelligence community, copied to two different publications, The Guardian, and the Washington Post, this might have belonged in the "conspiracy section" of the forum. However, this is not a conspiracy, but it raises important questions, which can be asked about what that data could be used for in the wrong hands. My reference to what you call "alternative history," is merely an example of the potential danger we could find ourselves.

To quote the Washington Post: Firsthand experience with these systems, and horror at their capabilities, is what drove a career intelligence officer to provide PowerPoint slides about PRISM and supporting materials to The Washington Post in order to expose what he believes to be a gross intrusion on privacy. “They quite literally can watch your ideas form as you type,” the officer said. - By Barton Gellman and Laura Poitras, Published: June 6 |  Updated: Friday, June 7, 10:51 AM

Given this curious statement from a career intelligence source, it seems to me that some "paranoia" is in order.  It also hints what this information could be used for, without saying so directly.

So the question becomes, what could this thought information be used for? Surely you must realize that it can be weaponized. You don't have to kill a man to control him, once you know his thoughts, his feelings, his fears, his likes, and dislikes. You can kill him with his own spirit, and I'm not talking about religion.

Are we so foolish to trust other men with our thoughts?

You know what they did down at Gitmo?  The U.S. military had this one prisoner that they found out was afraid of bugs, so they put him in a dark room, naked, with live insects. The Torture Memo - The Justice Campaign

Some of U.S. have known about Prism for a while now, but what they're just now figuring out, is how easy mountains can be moved.

Edited by Raptor Witness, 08 June 2013 - 09:27 PM.

Posted Image "Make Manifest Destiny a memory ..." 12-7-2011  "When the earth is displaced fully three times at the point of destiny ..." 10-29-2013

#13    Jessica Christ

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 09:27 PM

The only reason the OP was questioned as belonging in the Alternative History section because it is asking if Hitler had the same tech as we do today, that is alternative history.

Also Hitler only went after minorities not the whole of Germany.

The comparison fails if trying to say our government  is like Hitler especially if the claim is the government wants to go after everyone. If the comparison is to try and control everyone just for the sake of control, that is not what Hitler did, that is also not what our government is doing.

By nature a tribe will be more "free" than a clan, and a clan more free than a kingdom, and a kingdom more free than an empire. We live in an era where we balance freedom with security. Do we really want to live and go back to tribal times to be totally free? Call those who disagree with the paranoid conspiracy theories as being sheeple, most of us consider it sensibility. My government is not coming after me. It is not a Hitler-like scenario of first they went after this group and I didn't say anything, then that one, then that one, then it was too late they come from me. Don't see that happening here either.

A thread fails once a thread is Godwinned and this thread was Godwinned from the get go.

Edited by The world needs you, 08 June 2013 - 09:31 PM.


#14    Babe Ruth

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 09:51 PM

View PostHilander, on 08 June 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

If Hitler had what the NSA has now I suspect the war would of turned out different.

I bet it would not have turned out different.  Hitler already had control of the population, and the war was determined by men and machines and Lady Luck. :tu:


#15    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 10:46 PM

Quote

Would the US Not have destroyed the Japanese?
He'd not have cared.

Quote

Would the English not have destroyed the German Air Force over England?
He'd have known how many planes the British had.

Quote

Would D-Day not of Happened?
He'd have known where it was going to happen though.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.




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