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Is Allah the same as God in the Bible?


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#121    Uncle Pockets

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 12:44 PM

View PostPhilangeli, on 28 June 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

Have you read the Hadith? There are plenty of examples there, where he didn't exactly call on the Jews and Christians with a home baked apple pie and a 'Howdy neighbour!'

I am well aware of how the Prophet pbuh treated others. He was the best of character. People would have ran away from him if he wasn't.

As far as neighbors go. There is a Hadith on that

Mujahid reported that a sheep was slaughtered for 'Abdullah ibn 'Amr. He asked his slave, 'Have you given any to our Jewish neighbour? Have you given any to our Jewish neighbour? I heard the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, say, 'Jibril kept on recommending that I treat my neighbours well until I thought that he would order me to treat them as my heirs.'"


#122    Philangeli

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 01:18 PM

View PostUncle Pockets, on 28 June 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

I am well aware of how the Prophet pbuh treated others. He was the best of character. People would have ran away from him if he wasn't.

As far as neighbors go. There is a Hadith on that

Mujahid reported that a sheep was slaughtered for 'Abdullah ibn 'Amr. He asked his slave, 'Have you given any to our Jewish neighbour? Have you given any to our Jewish neighbour? I heard the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, say, 'Jibril kept on recommending that I treat my neighbours well until I thought that he would order me to treat them as my heirs.'"

Then surely you are aware of these verses from the Hadith, showing how 'neighbourly' he was.

Sahih Muslim (1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay zakat."

Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists (which includes Christians), invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them ... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them"

Bukhari (8:387) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.'"

Bukhari (53:392) - "While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet came out and said, "Let us go to the Jews" We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them, "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."

Bukhari (2:24) - "Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

Bukhari (60:80) - "The Verse:--'You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind.' means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam."

Bukhari (60:40) - "...:And fight them till there is no more affliction (i.e. no more worshiping of others along with Allah)." 'Affliction' of Muslims is explicitly defined here being a condition in which others worship a different god other than Allah. Muslims are commanded to use violence to 'rectify' the situation.

Bukhari (59:643) - "Testify that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck!" Words of a military leader that Muhammad sent on an expedition with the mission of destroying a local religion in Yemen.

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#123    Uncle Pockets

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:07 PM

View PostPhilangeli, on 28 June 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

Then surely you are aware of these verses from the Hadith, showing how 'neighbourly' he was.

Sahih Muslim (1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay zakat."

Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists (which includes Christians), invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them ... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them"

Bukhari (8:387) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.'"

Bukhari (53:392) - "While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet came out and said, "Let us go to the Jews" We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them, "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."

Bukhari (2:24) - "Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

Bukhari (60:80) - "The Verse:--'You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind.' means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam."

Bukhari (60:40) - "...:And fight them till there is no more affliction (i.e. no more worshiping of others along with Allah)." 'Affliction' of Muslims is explicitly defined here being a condition in which others worship a different god other than Allah. Muslims are commanded to use violence to 'rectify' the situation.

Bukhari (59:643) - "Testify that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck!" Words of a military leader that Muhammad sent on an expedition with the mission of destroying a local religion in Yemen.

That site is very,very poor and wouldn't be the best of quotes. If you're going to quote Bukhari or Muslim please do get a better source as that website seems as if someone may have added a few words for their own agenda.

I will share the quotes from an e-book of Bukhari & Muslim as I do not have all of these volumes. Only saw issue with 3 so will quote those.

Bukhari (59:643)


Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 59 :: Hadith 643

Narrated Qais:

Jarir said "Allah's Apostle said to me, "Won't you relieve me from Dhul-Khalasa?" I replied, "Yes, (I will relieve you)." So I proceeded along with one-hundred and fifty cavalry from Ahmas tribe who were skillful in riding horses. I used not to sit firm over horses, so I informed the Prophet of that, and he stroke my chest with his hand till I saw the marks of his hand over my chest and he said, O Allah! Make him firm and one who guides others and is guided (on the right path).' Since then I have never fallen from a horse. Dhul-l--Khulasa was a house in Yemen belonging to the tribe of Khatham and Bajaila, and in it there were idols which were worshipped, and it was called Al-Ka'ba." Jarir went there, burnt it with fire and dismantled it. When Jarir reached Yemen, there was a man who used to foretell and give good omens by casting arrows of divination. Someone said to him. "The messenger of Allah's Apostle is present here and if he should get hold of you, he would chop off your neck." One day while he was using them (i.e. arrows of divination), Jarir stopped there and said to him, "Break them (i.e. the arrows) and testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck." So the man broke those arrows and testified that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah. Then Jarir sent a man called Abu Artata from the tribe of Ahmas to the Prophet to convey the good news (of destroying Dhu-l-Khalasa). So when the messenger reached the Prophet, he said, "O Allah's Apostle! By Him Who sent you with the Truth, I did not leave it till it was like a scabby camel." Then the Prophet blessed the horses of Ahmas and their men five times.


Also have a problem with the second one quoted from Muslim with whoever stated that it applies to Christians.




Muslim :: Book 19 : Hadith 4294

It has been reported from Sulaiman b. Buraid through his father that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muilims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai' except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them. When you lay siege to a fort and the besieged appeal to you for protection in the name of Allah and His Prophet, do not accord to them the guarantee of Allah and His Prophet, but accord to them your own guarantee and the guarantee of your companions for it is a lesser sin that the security given by you or your companions be disregarded than that the security granted in the name of Allah and His Prophet be violated When you besiege a fort and the besieged want you to let them out in accordance with Allah's Command, do not let them come out in accordance with His Command, but do so at your (own) command, for you do not know whether or not you will be able to carry out Allah's behest with regard to them.

A third problem I have is with the one from 60:40


Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 60 :: Hadith 40

Narrated Nafi':
During the affliction of Ibn Az-Zubair, two men came to Ibn 'Umar and said, "The people are lost, and you are the son of 'Umar, and the companion of the Prophet, so what forbids you from coming out?" He said, "What forbids me is that Allah has prohibited the shedding of my brother's blood." They both said, "Didn't Allah say, 'And fight then until there is no more affliction?" He said "We fought until there was no more affliction and the worship is for Allah (Alone while you want to fight until there is affliction and until the worship become for other than Allah."
Narrated Nafi (through another group of sub-narrators): A man came to Ibn 'Umar and said, "O Abu Abdur Rahman! What made you perform Hajj in one year and Umra in another year and leave the Jihad for Allah' Cause though you know how much Allah recommends it?" Ibn 'Umar replied, "O son of my brother! Islam is founded on five principles, i.e. believe in Allah and His Apostle, the five compulsory prayers, the fasting of the month of Ramadan, the payment of Zakat, and the Hajj to the House (of Allah)." The man said, "O Abu Abdur Rahman! Won't you listen to why Allah has mentioned in His Book: 'If two groups of believers fight each other, then make peace between them, but if one of then transgresses beyond bounds against the other, then you all fight against the one that transgresses. (49.9) and:--"And fight them till there is no more affliction (i.e. no more worshiping of others along with Allah)." Ibn 'Umar said, "We did it, during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle when Islam had only a few followers. A man would be put to trial because of his religion; he would either be killed or tortured. But when the Muslims increased, there was no more afflictions or oppressions." The man said, "What is your opinion about 'Uthman and 'Ali?" Ibn 'Umar said, "As for 'Uthman, it seems that Allah has forgiven him, but you people dislike that he should be forgiven. And as for 'Ali, he is the cousin of Allah's Apostle and his son-in-law." Then he pointed with his hand and said, "That is his house which you see."

I quoted those three from the e-books of the two collections


#124    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:11 PM

View PostPhilangeli, on 28 June 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

Then surely you are aware of these verses from the Hadith, showing how 'neighbourly' he was.

Sahih Muslim (1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay zakat."

Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists (which includes Christians), invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them ... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them"

Bukhari (8:387) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.'"

Bukhari (53:392) - "While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet came out and said, "Let us go to the Jews" We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them, "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."

Bukhari (2:24) - "Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

Bukhari (60:80) - "The Verse:--'You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind.' means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam."

Bukhari (60:40) - "...:And fight them till there is no more affliction (i.e. no more worshiping of others along with Allah)." 'Affliction' of Muslims is explicitly defined here being a condition in which others worship a different god other than Allah. Muslims are commanded to use violence to 'rectify' the situation.

Bukhari (59:643) - "Testify that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck!" Words of a military leader that Muhammad sent on an expedition with the mission of destroying a local religion in Yemen.

It reads a lot of fighting...a lot of wanting to force religion on to others...  Not good at all

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#125    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:45 PM

View PostPhilangeli, on 28 June 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

Then surely you are aware of these verses from the Hadith, showing how 'neighbourly' he was.

Sahih Muslim (1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay zakat."

Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists (which includes Christians), invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them ... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them"

Bukhari (8:387) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.'"

Bukhari (53:392) - "While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet came out and said, "Let us go to the Jews" We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them, "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."

Bukhari (2:24) - "Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

Bukhari (60:80) - "The Verse:--'You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind.' means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam."

Bukhari (60:40) - "...:And fight them till there is no more affliction (i.e. no more worshiping of others along with Allah)." 'Affliction' of Muslims is explicitly defined here being a condition in which others worship a different god other than Allah. Muslims are commanded to use violence to 'rectify' the situation.

Bukhari (59:643) - "Testify that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck!" Words of a military leader that Muhammad sent on an expedition with the mission of destroying a local religion in Yemen.

Sounds like the same genocidal narcissistic madman as the bible to me.

Drunk with blood..
Danger cult leaders
Jewish gematria # 1162:
Who is like God
The epitome of evil

#126    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:50 PM

View PostHavocWing, on 28 June 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

Sounds like the same genocidal narcissistic madman as the bible to me.

Yup similar

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#127    keenu

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:54 PM

I believe there were two gods (or more) in the bible. There seems to be much contradiction in the way god acts.  Sometimes strict and unwavering and sometimes caring and helpful.  I believe that explains a lot about things.


#128    Philangeli

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 03:33 PM

View PostUncle Pockets, on 28 June 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:


Muslim :: Book 19 : Hadith 4294
When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muilims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai' except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them.


Notice how this translation is meant to sound oh, so awfully reasonable, to tone down the violent intentions:

"Then invite them to migrate from their lands".

Oh, how nice!

What does that mean? It means expel them.

Come on, now, the result is the same. If you didn't convert, you were either expelled, enslaved or killed.

Uncle Pockets, I appreciate that you are a moderate, peaceful muslim, and I applaud you for that, but please do not try to pull this typical, latter-day, revisionist view of Mohammed over our eyes, like he was another Jesus. The historical facts speak for themselves.

For those who may be interested, Google the Battle of the Trench.

Edited by Philangeli, 28 June 2012 - 03:36 PM.

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#129    odas

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 04:29 PM

View PostPhilangeli, on 28 June 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:



Notice how this translation is meant to sound oh, so awfully reasonable, to tone down the violent intentions:

"Then invite them to migrate from their lands".

Oh, how nice!

What does that mean? It means expel them.

Come on, now, the result is the same. If you didn't convert, you were either expelled, enslaved or killed.

Uncle Pockets, I appreciate that you are a moderate, peaceful muslim, and I applaud you for that, but please do not try to pull this typical, latter-day, revisionist view of Mohammed over our eyes, like he was another Jesus. The historical facts speak for themselves.

For those who may be interested, Google the Battle of the Trench.

I was very quiet and reasonable and respected everyones view but I have to say that I do not like your tone in few of your last posts. It seems to me you think only what you put on this thread is right. That is a very ignorant approach.
You are accusing some hadiths that can be interpreted differently and have not much weight since they are not the word god, as forceing ones believe on to others meanwhile your posts are just like that. Do you realy want numbers who killed more in the name of god?? Realy? Do you realy want numbers of who forcefuly converted more people? Realy?
When I read posts like yours it does not come to whose god is better but whose god is more awfull.
I wander sometimes, would I be alive if we did not have some extremists within?
How long would it take you to come to my home and force me to accept your religion?
I told you before and I am telling you again you kerp your religion and I keep mine.
Where is the point anyway to even try to have a dialog if my religion, my god, my prophet are being blast as the devil? Is this the civilized way you are talking about? No thanks no point to discuss or justifie my religion to anyone who has a forefront negative aproach to it.


#130    Lion6969

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 04:50 PM

View PostPhilangeli, on 16 June 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

Hi everyone.

I have had various muslim friends over the years with whom I have discussed God/Allah. One thing they were quite keen on was emphasizing that Allah is the same as God in the Bible and I kind of passively accepted it.

However, after some reading, I have come to the conclusion that this may not be the case.

Apparently, Allah was one of many gods worshipped by the Arabs in Mohammed's time and Mohammed chose that particular god to be the 'numero uno' god.

Allah was historically known as a moon god (hence the moon icon on many flags of islamic countries).
Do names matter? Yes, I think they do.

What do you think?

Here is an extract from :
http://www.letusreason.org/islam6.htm
which analyses the origin of the name Allah.
 
Allah is the name of the only God in Islam. Allah is a pre-Islamic name coming from the compound Arabic word Al-ilah which means the God, which is derived from al (the) ilah (deity).

The Arabic name for "God" is the word "Al-ilah." It is a generic title for whatever god was considered the highest god. Different Arab tribes used "Allah" to refer to its personal high god. "Allah" was being worshipped at the Kaa’ba in Mecca by Arabs prior to the time of Mohammed. It was formerly the name of the chief god among the numerous idols (360) in the Kaaba in Mecca before Mohammed made them into monotheists. Historians have shown that the moon god called "Hubal" was the god to whom Arabs prayed at the Kaa’ba and they used the name "Allah" when they prayed.
*Snip*

Same old chestnut, UM never throws any surprises just regurgitated tripe!

This has been cleared several times check some of my posts.

Allah is not the moon god, this is historically and archaeologically false and the proposer was ridiculed by his peers after discovering that he falsified his findings and made conclusions which actually had no basis!

Al ilah means the god, ilah means god. The pre Muslims Arabs believed in a pantheon of gods, but always maintained that the supreme god was Allah (not the same as al ilah), so for example the pagan Arabs would refer to Allah as the al-ilah, ie Allah is the god. The other gods were Demi gods used for intercession purposes and in some cases direct worship. During that era in Arabia there were pagans, Jews, Christians, atheists and a group of monotheists called hanifis. You al ilah in Arabic can be manipulated to al ilahi (the gods) or the goddess, the god father etc etc. However in Arabic when you combine the Al remove the "I" and create a singular word Allah. It becomes unique with no equivalent in any language. Suddenly it's becomes a word which is not only used to call god, but it also defines him as single, no equivalent, nothing like it, neither feminine nor male attributes can be attached to the word. So it becomes the ultimate name for god which cannot be given to anything else!

When Muhammed's father was called abdullah, it means servant of Allah. The names is not Allah alone, the abd nullifies the name of Allah alone and is aptly translated as servant of Allah ie servant of god. The child is neither named god nor Allah. So grow up hetro!

To the OP, seems like you have had genuine conversations with Muslims, you want to know more and want to see how much tripe the moon god theory is, PM me :)

Edited by Lion6969, 28 June 2012 - 05:29 PM.


#131    Lion6969

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 04:55 PM

Philangeli......

Are you discussing Muhammad or Allah? Stick to the topic!

You wanna discuss muhammeds character and want to quote Hadith etc, then make sure you know the Arabic the context as every Hadith is based in time location and circumstances that were real, hadiths support other Hadith and provide context.

Secondly, if you really want a debate on the matter then set up a separate thread don't derail this one.


#132    Lion6969

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 05:34 PM

Ps. The god of the bible is not Allah. What Muslims actually believe was that the original Torah and gospel (before later corruptions and loss of material), were from Allah. The current versions are not accepted as Muslims nor the man god it describes and I don't mean Jesus!

What Muslims believe though is that the Jews and Christians still worship the same god the giver of the original message. The final testament (Quran) confirms what came before and corrects the corruptions in the others.

So believing that we worship the same god is very different to saying we accept the biblical god in both scriptures today. We only accept what does not contradict the final testament ie Quran!


#133    Philangeli

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 05:38 PM

View PostLion6969, on 28 June 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

Philangeli......

Are you discussing Muhammad or Allah? Stick to the topic!

You wanna discuss muhammeds character and want to quote Hadith etc, then make sure you know the Arabic the context as every Hadith is based in time location and circumstances that were real, hadiths support other Hadith and provide context.

Secondly, if you really want a debate on the matter then set up a separate thread don't derail this one.

I notice you didn't tell Uncle Pockets to stick to the topic. I was replying to his post:

" Say (O Muhammad Posted Image): "We believe in Allah and in what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob) and Al-Asbat [the twelve sons of Ya'qub (Jacob)] and what was given to Musa (Moses), 'Iesa (Jesus) and the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between one another among them and to Him (Allah) we have submitted (in Islam)."

Sums this up well."


and, in particular, the phrase, "We make no distinction ...", which I disagreed with.

But, you're right, I should not have allowed myself to stray off the topic. I hope others do likewise.

Edited by Philangeli, 28 June 2012 - 05:39 PM.

Philangeli aka Cantando


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#134    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 06:11 PM

too bad googles searches never update their " bad islam " base of information
these ones getting old and been used down to the wire

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#135    Uncle Pockets

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 06:19 PM

View PostPhilangeli, on 28 June 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:



Notice how this translation is meant to sound oh, so awfully reasonable, to tone down the violent intentions:

"Then invite them to migrate from their lands".

Oh, how nice!

What does that mean? It means expel them.

Come on, now, the result is the same. If you didn't convert, you were either expelled, enslaved or killed.

Uncle Pockets, I appreciate that you are a moderate, peaceful muslim, and I applaud you for that, but please do not try to pull this typical, latter-day, revisionist view of Mohammed over our eyes, like he was another Jesus. The historical facts speak for themselves.

For those who may be interested, Google the Battle of the Trench.


Lol. This translation is right out of the book. You probably missed the second or third sentence where it clearly states," if they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. "

As for any emotional bias you may have for the subject then that is not of my doing.





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