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Secret Caves under the Pyramids


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#376    dreamland

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:25 PM



Ok this is what is making me think,why Hawass is a liar.
At 50 sec of the video,author says that they bring cameras for the first time into this tomb. Thats a lie. Collins and his team were there before them and they had cameras with them.
At  9:35 Hawass said,he never made an adventure like this before. That means he never been there. So how he can say that he know everything he needs to know about pyramids,sphinx and surrounding areas.
Guys i am sure they missed something. If i would ever had a chance to go there and see this cave,,,i would check every corner.

Edited by dreamland, 06 January 2013 - 09:26 PM.


#377    cladking

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:37 PM

View Postdreamland, on 06 January 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:



Ok this is what is making me think,why Hawass is a liar.
At 50 sec of the video,author says that they bring cameras for the first time into this tomb. Thats a lie. Collins and his team were there before them and they had cameras with them.
At  9:35 Hawass said,he never made an adventure like this before. That means he never been there. So how he can say that he know everything he needs to know about pyramids,sphinx and surrounding areas.
Guys i am sure they missed something. If i would ever had a chance to go there and see this cave,,,i would check every corner.

Hawass made the statement that there were no caves in 2009.  It was later he was
taken into the caves.  Dr. Hawass is an educated person and it's most highly impobable
he would make the same statement today.  He is one of the world's leading scholars
regarding the Giza Plateau and certainly values such a reputation.

Edited by cladking, 06 January 2013 - 09:38 PM.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#378    DieChecker

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:55 PM

View Postcladking, on 06 January 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

Again, the cave exists so why would he commit fraud and film a different cave?
I thought that was pretty clear... money. Money is the reason to commit fraud.

Quote

How can you possibly know what was removed to make the Osiris Shaft?  You can only see the hole they left and can't know if there was a natural void already there. It's irrelevant in any case since there are caves at Giza including one right in the Osiris Shaft itself.  Giza's old name in the builders' time meabnt "Mouth Of Caves".
The drawings and pictures of the chambers all look squared out, but, I would have to admit that the actual shafts could have been natural at first and then expanded upon.

How do you know that the old name is the Mouth of Caves? Oh yeah... archeologists determined that.

Quote

They have done no science at Giza in decades.  What would possibly lead you to believe this will change if they just get around to it?  It won't happen unless they are pressured to stop wasting time on a failed paradigm and to start investigating anomalies and measuring the artefacts.
That is just your opinions. Do you have a hotline to what gets done in Egypt? If not, then how can you say such thing? Operating in ignorance, you simply are making stuff up.

I think that you don't understand my reasoning goes to show you really don't understand how archeology works, even at the common sense level. Clearly they have to schedule things and provide resources of personnel and equipment. Personnel and equipment that is already somewhere else doing something else.

What are they to do? Every time someone thinks there is another place to dig in Egypt, that thirty more skilled/trained/educated/experienced people are hired by the goverment and another million dollars of gear just is drawn out of a gigantic warehouse of stored goods? It does not... can not... work that way.

Quote

They spent this past summer building a computer model to prove ramps could have been used.  I don't even need to see the model to dispute it and far more importantly it doesn't matter if they could have used ramps or not.  It matters what evidence and what anomalies exist on the plateau and these things haven't been studied in over a quarter century.
YOU did not see the need?? OK, well then... the next time that the Department of Antiquities is on the line with me, I'm going to bring that up.

They haven't been studied because they don't need to be studied. You would have the doctors test and treat you for smallpoxs, when all you have is a heat rash. Because in your opinon the evidence points at smallpox.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#379    dreamland

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:57 PM

Hawass made the statement that there were no caves in 2009
Thats a lie. He reminds me with famous 1947 roswell ufo crash. Us army said there was a weather balloon,not a ufo, and then world find out the real truth. I dont believe a word Hawass says about pyramids ,caves and sphinx. This is one big cover -up thing. There is subterranean chamber under the great pyramid,side sphinx entrance that goes under the sphinx,also there is on top.Caves. Come on guys...dont you make you think..that there must be something underground? I believe that whoever build great pyramid..had to leave behind their knowledge,who they were, how they did it...and staff like this.


#380    cladking

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:02 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 06 January 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

How do you know that the old name is the Mouth of Caves? Oh yeah... archeologists determined that.


When a pig finds a truffel it's not because he planted it and I'm sure it
wouldn't claim to have created it from effort.  It is just there and a pig can
grunt them out.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#381    cladking

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:07 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 06 January 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

That is just your opinions. Do you have a hotline to what gets done in Egypt? If not, then how can you say such thing? Operating in ignorance, you simply are making stuff up.


No it isn't.  I keep up with them pretty closely and have eyes everywhere.

All the evidence is continuing to support hydraulics and deny ramps.  Very
little in terms of science has been done sice Bui did the gravimetric scans in
1986.  My calender calls that over a quarter century.

They're still doing some first rate archaeology just not basic science. This
means they can't even take basic measurements of things we can measure
in the here and now!

Edited by cladking, 06 January 2013 - 10:09 PM.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#382    DieChecker

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:08 PM

View Postdreamland, on 06 January 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:



Ok this is what is making me think,why Hawass is a liar.
At 50 sec of the video,author says that they bring cameras for the first time into this tomb. Thats a lie. Collins and his team were there before them and they had cameras with them.
At  9:35 Hawass said,he never made an adventure like this before. That means he never been there. So how he can say that he know everything he needs to know about pyramids,sphinx and surrounding areas.
Guys i am sure they missed something. If i would ever had a chance to go there and see this cave,,,i would check every corner.
That is a really cool video. It seems to proove that the tunnels are really there. Maybe as long as Collins actually tried to map. And it appears they might even be natural. And it shows the bats too.

It appears clear that Hawass thought these were Roman dug tunnels, and not natural until he was talking about it with the one guy on the show. Probably why he said there was no caves.

I've been caving a number of times and it is possible that side tunnels could open off those and not be easily seen. They will need to go in there and map it and slowly dig it out.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#383    DieChecker

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:10 PM

View Postcladking, on 06 January 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

When a pig finds a truffel it's not because he planted it and I'm sure it
wouldn't claim to have created it from effort.  It is just there and a pig can
grunt them out.
So.... you're saying that the name Mouth of Caves is known because.... it has always been known? Can you point to where the name came from?

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#384    DieChecker

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:13 PM

View Postcladking, on 06 January 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

No it isn't.  I keep up with them pretty closely and have eyes everywhere.

All the evidence is continuing to support hydraulics and deny ramps.  Very little in terms of science has been done sice Bui did the gravimetric scans in 1986.  My calender calls that over a quarter century.

They're still doing some first rate archaeology just not basic science. This means they can't even take basic measurements of things we can measure in the here and now!
Perhaps what you consider science is different then what they are doing? I thought Egyptology was itself a science.

You made me LOL with your comment, "Eyes everywhere".

You interpretation of evidence is opinion, and that is definately a Fact.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#385    cladking

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:42 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 06 January 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

So.... you're saying that the name Mouth of Caves is known because.... it has always been known? Can you point to where the name came from?


No!!!

I'm saying that except for the condition of there being a truffle growing in
the earth, a pig can't snort it out. It was 500 years of science and google
that sniffed it out. The determination of the ancient name was part of this
science.

I suppose the confusion was my fault.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#386    cladking

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:03 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 06 January 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

I thought Egyptology was itself a science.

Not really.

It is more a specific archaeology that primarily uses logic and deduction to tie
together the few pieces of the past.  For later epochs that is ample evidence but
almost nothing survives from  before the 5th dynasty.  Based on this logic and
deduction they direct the gathering of information and determine the most re-
warding places to assign resources.  Certainly many of the means they use to
explore these various things are highly "scientific".  The means by which they
carry them out can be very scientific and dependent on modern technology, but
true science doesn't operate this way.  True science doesn't build high tech
robots to go looking for treasure that might be implied to exist by a work of fiction
written a thousand years later.  True science is observation.  True science seeks
to understand and investigates anomalies.

Perhaps part of this definition applies more today than it did 25 or 50 years ago.  
Real Egyptological knowledge of the pre-5th dynasty is extensive but the physical
evidence is scarce.  However all this knowledge will not stand the test of time be-
cause it is derived from false assumptions.

Even if I'm right about everything it should be remembered that with the tiny bit
of evidence that exists it's easy to see how it was overlooked.

Most people do not understand science.  "Never before have so many known so
little about so much".

Edited by cladking, 06 January 2013 - 11:22 PM.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#387    Harte

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 02:55 AM

View PostTheSearcher, on 05 January 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

I think LRW got booted because of his incessant Christian bashing and his linking everything and everyone to what he called Christendom even if this wasn't in the slightest correct.
No, he was using the same alphabet as the Pope and, as such, he was judged unworthy for being too Christian.

Harte

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#388    DieChecker

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 03:56 AM

View Postcladking, on 06 January 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

Not really.

It is more a specific archaeology that primarily uses logic and deduction to tie
together the few pieces of the past.  For later epochs that is ample evidence but
almost nothing survives from  before the 5th dynasty.  Based on this logic and
deduction they direct the gathering of information and determine the most re-
warding places to assign resources.  Certainly many of the means they use to
explore these various things are highly "scientific".  The means by which they
carry them out can be very scientific and dependent on modern technology, but
true science doesn't operate this way.  True science doesn't build high tech
robots to go looking for treasure that might be implied to exist by a work of fiction
written a thousand years later.  True science is observation.  True science seeks
to understand and investigates anomalies.

Perhaps part of this definition applies more today than it did 25 or 50 years ago.  
Real Egyptological knowledge of the pre-5th dynasty is extensive but the physical
evidence is scarce.  However all this knowledge will not stand the test of time be-
cause it is derived from false assumptions.

Even if I'm right about everything it should be remembered that with the tiny bit
of evidence that exists it's easy to see how it was overlooked.

Most people do not understand science.  "Never before have so many known so
little about so much".
Science collects data. Isn't that what Egyptology is about, at least in part? Digging and collecting data points? Unless the archeologists go looking for data, they will never observe anything new.

I guess you are at least partly right however because Egyptology is partly a study of the ancient peoples and thus a Humanities study.

So, it seems to be not a Hard Science, like Physics, or Optics, but it is a Soft Science, like Behavioral Sciences and Genetic and Neural Sciences.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#389    TheSearcher

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 06:45 AM

View Postcladking, on 06 January 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

.....snip

Even if I'm right about everything it should be remembered that with the tiny bit
of evidence that exists it's easy to see how it was overlooked.

Most people do not understand science.  "Never before have so many known so
little about so much".

Is that quote from James Burke, Clad?

View PostHarte, on 07 January 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

No, he was using the same alphabet as the Pope and, as such, he was judged unworthy for being too Christian.

Harte

Which is what actually struck me as funny, the guy know "christendom" better than myself and a few others and didn't see the irony in using the Roman alphabet.

It is only the ignorant who despise education.
Publilius Syrus.

So god made me an atheist. Who are you to question his wisdom?!

#390    cladking

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:48 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 07 January 2013 - 03:56 AM, said:

Science collects data. Isn't that what Egyptology is about, at least in part? Digging and collecting data points? Unless the archeologists go looking for data, they will never observe anything new.


No.  Science is observation> hypothesis> experiment> conclusion now days.  People simply
mistake the results of this process, technology, for science.  In ancient times I believe science
had a very complitated metaphysic but this is not yet truly proven.  But modern metaphysics
is exceedingly simple.  It is merely the definitions of terms as well as the axioms that together
with the process of science determines its nature and the nature of alkl the resullts.  We lose
sight of what the results mean because metaphysics are not taught even to the scientists.  We
have ended up with all sorts of thought experiments about the nature of reality because we have
mistaken technology for science.  Technology is essentially just the ability to remove a labora-
tory experiment into the real world and is in no way indicative of our knowledge or reality.  The
concrete world still exists outside of the lab and the real world still doesn't give up her secrets.

Real scientists are people like Richard Feynman.  Real scientists don't take much of anything
for granted and when they see an anomaly of any sort thy investigate it.  Almost all human pro-
gress as well as discoveries and inventions are serendipitous.  They are the result of a person
who sees and investigates an anomaly.  In order for a real scientist to be in control at Giza he
would necessarily be performing observations, experimenting, taking measurements, and in-
vestigating anomalies.  None of this is actually occuring.  This doesn't mean that these people
are using voodoo or casting tea leaves but it is not science.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.




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