Roswell Revisited

[dazdillinjah]

Im not so sure about the Roswell incident

If you actually read the 'Roswell Daily Record' and read the news story which is titled 'No Details Of Flying Disk Are Revealed' you can see the report which says that no details of the craft have been provided but it was flimsy and made if the material such as a box kite ..go check it for yourself

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

Roswell recycled again !

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Sky Eagle! This one's yours.

[Rafterman]

Im not so sure about the Roswell incident

If you actually read the 'Roswell Daily Record' and read the news story which is titled 'No Details Of Flying Disk Are Revealed' you can see the report which says that no details of the craft have been provided but it was flimsy and made if the material such as a box kite ..go check it for yourself

And that's pretty much the story until the National Enquirer got a hold of it in the late 70s or so.

[skyeagle409]

Im not so sure about the Roswell incident

If you actually read the 'Roswell Daily Record' and read the news story which is titled 'No Details Of Flying Disk Are Revealed' you can see the report which says that no details of the craft have been provided but it was flimsy and made if the material such as a box kite ..go check it for yourself

Let's take a look at the original newspaper articles.

That was a cover story. It was later determined that debris from a weather balloon rawin device in Ramey's office was planted. In fact, one of the officers who posed with the debris, Col. Thomas Dubose, has admitted that the debris was planted in order to get the press off of their backs. In other words,

AFFIDAVIT

(1) My name is Thomas Jefferson Dubose

(2) My address is: XXXXXXXXXX

(3) I retired from the U.S. Air force in 1959 with the rank of Brigadier General.

(4) In July 1947, I was stationed at Fort Worth Army Air Field [later Carswell Air Force Base] in Fort Worth, Texas. I served as Chief of Staff to Major General Roger Ramey, Commander, Eight Air Force. I had the rank of Colonel.

(5) In early July, I received a phone call from Maj. Gen. Clements McMullen, Deputy Commander, Strategic Air Command. He asked what we knew about the object which had been recovered outside Roswell, New Mexico, as reported in the press. I called Col. William Blanchard, Commander of the Roswell Army Air Field and directed him to send the material in a sealed container to me at Fort Worth. I so informed Maj. Gen. McMullen.

(6) After the plane from Roswell arrived with the material, I asked the Base Commander, Col. Al Clark, to take possession of the material and to personally transport it in a B-26 to Maj. Gen. McMullen in Washington, D.C. I notified Maj. Gen. McMullen, and he told me he would send the material by personal courier on his plane to Benjamin Chidlaw, Commanding General of the Air Material Command at Wright Field [later Wright Patterson AFB]. The entire operation was conducted under the strictest secrecy.

(7) The material shown in the photographs taken in Maj. Gen. Ramey's office was a weather balloon. The weather balloon explanation for the material was a cover story to divert the attention of the press.

(8) I have not been paid or given anything of value to make this statement, which is the truth to the best of my recollection.

Signed: T. J. Dubose

Date: 9/16/91

Signature witnessed by:

Linda R. Split

Notary Public, State of Florida

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/dubose.html

The Air Force said that a weather balloon was responsible for the Roswell incident, but it 1994, the Air Force threw out its weather balloon story and substituted a Project Mogul balloon flight #4.

1994 Air Force Roswell Report

Balloon Research

As early as February 28, 1994, the AAZD research team found references to balloon tests taking place at Alamogordo AAF (now Holloman AFB) and White Sands during June and July 1947, testing "constant level balloons" and a New York University (NYU)/Watson Labs effort that used "...meteorological devices... suspected for detecting shock waves generated by Soviet nuclear explosions"--a possible indication of a cover story associated with the NYU balloon project. Subsequently, a 1946 HQ AMC memorandum was surfaced, describing the constant altitude balloon project and specified that the scientific data be classified TOP SECRET Priority IA. Its name was Project Mogul (Atch 19).

Project Mogul was a then-sensitive, classified project, whose purpose was to determine the state of Soviet nuclear weapons research. This was the early Cold War period and there was serious concern within the US government about the Soviets developing a weaponized atomic device. Because the Soviet Union's borders were closed, the US Government sought to develop a long range nuclear explosion detection capability. Long range, balloon-borne, low frequency acoustic detection was posed to General Spaatz in 1945 by Dr. Maurice Ewing of Columbia University as a potential solution (atmospheric ducting of low frequency pressure waves had been studied as early as 1900).

http://www.roswellfiles.com/Articles/AirForceReport.htm

The Air Force said that Project Mogul was a "then-sensitive, classified project" but Project Mogul was not highly classified at all and in fact, Project Mogul balloons were sometimes recovered by civilians for rewards.

Rancher Sid West recovers Project Mogul balloon train

June 8, Sun. Rancher, Sid West, found balloon train 25 mi south of High Rolls in mountains.

Contacted him and made arragements to recover equipment Monday. Got all recordings of

balloon flights. Took Treland, Mears, Winton, Olsen to Alamogordo to catch train this pm

June 9, Mon. Bill Godbee and Don Reynolds went out to Sid West's ranch south of High Rolls

and broughtback recovered balloons- clock, 2 radiosondes, sonobuoy and microphone and lower

part of dribbler. Bill Edmondson cleaning up hanger and sorting out equipment of NYU. Worked

today on balloon records (GR8) from north hanger. No definite signals obtained. Took inventory

MRs.

http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/homeland_defense/UFOs/roswell.pdf

There was no saucer story generated for that Project Mogul balloon recovery. Sometimes, Project Mogul balloons left in open fields and not recovered at all. Here is an example where a Project Mogul balloon crashed near a roadway where it was eventually vandalized.

June 7, Sat. Balloon flight off about 530. Dribbler? broken on takeoff. Balloon was to

60,000':, broke left balloons then train came down somewhere in mountains. Recordings at

north hanger, and at Roswell but plane did not receive. Shot at 6, 630, 7, 730, 8 and 830

at site #4. Plane out to find balloons but no luck.

Balloon tests? 7, 8, 9, and 10 off this week. Test 7, slated for 1 July postponed until

2 July as equipment was not ready. 100 tanks Helium obtained from Amarillo Monday evening.

Also radiosonde receivers set up by NYU personnel Monday but were not operable. Test 7

at dawn on July 2 with pibal 1 hr first following with therodlite. Winds were very light

and balloons up between A air base and mountains most of time. Included cluster of met

balloons. Follewed by C-54? for several hours & finally landeddn mountains near road to

Cloudcroft. Before gear could be recovered, most of it had been stolen.

http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/homeland_defense/UFOs/roswell.pdf

Project Mogul balloons were research balloons and were not highly classified as the Air Force incorrectly suggested. Here's the equipment list for a typical Project Mogul train.

Project Mogul Balloon Equipment

* Dribblers

* Parachutes

* Ballast tubes

* Radiosode

* Sono Buoy

* Equipment gauges

* 17.5 Mogul balloon payload.

* Braided lines

* 28 balloons of various sizes

------------------------------------------------------------------

QUESTIONNAIRE, REWARD AND WARNING TAGS ATTACHED TO PROJECT MOGUL BALLOONS

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<^>

QUESTIONNAIRE

Please answer this and send to us so that we may pay you the

Reward.

1. On what date and at what hour was the balloon discovered?

2. Where was it discovered? (Approximate distance and direction

from nearest town on map?)

3. Was it observed descending? If so, at what time?

4. Did it float down slowly or fall rapidly?

5. How much kerosene was there in the tank?

C. S. Schneider

Research Division

New York University

University Heights

Bronx 53. New York

__________________________________________________________________

REWARD NOTICE

This is special weather equipment Sent aloft on research by New York Univetity.

It is important that the equipment be recovered. The finder L requested to protect

the equipment from damage or theft. and to telegraph collect to: Mr. C. 5. Schneider.

York University. 18lst St. & University Heights, Box 12. New York City.

L.S.A. Phone: LUdlow 3.6310. REFER TO FLIGHT #-__________

A dollar ($ ) reward and reasonable reimbursement for recovery expense will be

paid if the above instruction* are followed before September 1949.

KEEP AWAY FROM FIRE. THERE IS KEROSENE IN THE TANK.

___________________________________________________________________

****WARNING TAGS****

_______________________

DANGER!

FIRE!

CUT THESE WIRES

BEFORE HANDLING

_______________________

DANGER!

EMPTY THIS ON GROUND

BEFORE HANDLING

________________________

Asking the public's help to add their data to a Project Mogul balloon train questionnaire is not indicative of a classified balloon train project.

In another case, a Project Mogul balloon was recovered by a police officer in Flatbush, New Jersey.

Policeman Recovers Mogul Balloon

New York Times, Oct 1, 1948 "Balloon Staggers Down to Brooklyn Tavern,

A MOGUL balloon "floated blithely over the rooftops of Flatbush . . .

causing general public excitement . . . before it came to rest

on top of a [brooklyn] tavern." Recovered by policeman.

No cover-up story for that recovery of a Project Mogul balloon either. The Air Force has used Charles Moore to support its case, but what the Air Force never said in its report is that Charles Moore had reported that he tracked a flying saucer over New Mexico.

It has been said that the words, Project Mogul, was classified and yet, the words; Project Mogul, appears in that unclassified letter. In addition, Charles Moore is named as head of Project Mogul. I might add that Charles Moore's flying saucer account was written up in LIFE magazine.

The Air Force is now ready to concede that many saucer and fireball sightings still defy explanation; here LIFE offers some scientific evidence that there is a real case for interplanetary saucers.

INCIDENT 3

On April 24, 1949 at 10:20 a.m., a group of five technicians under the general supervision of J. Gordon Vaeth, an aeronautical engineer employed by the Office of Naval Research, were preparing to launch a Skyhook balloon near Arrey, N. Mex. A small balloon was sent up first to check the weather. Charles B. Moore Jr., an aerologist of General Mills Inc. (pioneers in cosmic ray research) was tracking the weather balloon through a theodolite – a 25-power telescopic instrument, which gives degrees of azimuth and elevation (horizontal and vertical position) for any object it is sighted on. At 10:30 a.m. Moore leaned back from the theodolite to glance at the balloon with his naked eye. Suddenly he saw a whitish elliptical object, apparently much higher than the balloon, and moving, in the opposite direction.

At once he picked the object up in his theodolite at 45 degrees of elevation and 210 degrees of azimuth, and tracked it east at the phenomenal rate of 5 degrees of azimuth-change per second as it dropped swiftly to an elevation of 25 degrees. The object appeared to be an ellipsoid roughly two and a half times as long as it was wide. Suddenly it swung abruptly upward and rushed out of sight in a few seconds. Moore had tracked it for about 60 seconds altogether.

The other members of his crew confirmed his report. No sound was heard, no vapor trail was seen. The object, according to rough estimations by Moore and his colleagues, was about 56 miles above the earth, 100 feet long and was traveling at seven miles per second.

EVALUATION

No known optical or atmospheric phenomenon fits the facts. A natural object traveling at seven miles per second has never been seen to make a sudden upward turn. There is no known or projected source of silent, vaporless power for such a machine. No human being could have borne the tremendous "G" load brought to bear on the craft during its abrupt vertical veer.

http://www.project1947.com/shg/articles/lifemag52.html

Charles Moore's account can also be found here.

HOW SCIENTISTS TRACKED A FLYING SAUCER

by

Commander Robert B. McLaughlin, USN

In its January issue TRUE said that the flying saucers are real and interplanetary. Its story was widely supported by the nation's press and radio. TRUE's findings are here confirmed by Commander McLaughlin, a rocket expert at White Sands Proving Ground, who worked independently of this magazine's investigation. He reveals how a troup of Navy men and scientists tracked a flying disk with a precision instrument and tells of flights he and others witnessed.

http://www.nicap.org/true-mc.htm

In 1997, the Air Force said that alien bodies people saw in 1947, were test dummies, but let's hear it from the Air Force officer who headed that project.

AIR FORCE RIDICULES UFO COVER-UP (Reported by CNN)

"The report (1997 Roswell Report) released Tuesday repeated that assertion. It explained that the so-called alien bodies witnesses reported seeing in the desert in separate incidents (1947) were test dummies that were carried aloft between 1954 and 1959 by Air Force balloons, then dropped attached to parachutes."

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9706/24/ufo.presser/

______________________________________________________________<^>

1997 ROSWELL REPORT

(Air Force Link)

Claims of "alien bodies" at the Roswell Army Air Field hospital (1947) were most likely a combination of two separate incidents:

) a 1956 KC-97 aircraft accident in which 11 Air Force members lost their lives; and,

) a 1959 manned balloon mishap in which two Air Force pilots were injured.

http://www.af.mil/library/roswell/

http://contrails.iit.edu/history/roswell/roswell.pdf

PARTICIPANT IN DUMMY DROPS SCOFFS AT AF REPORT

Dummies Weren't Classified, Says Retired Colonel

[CNI News thanks Robert Collins for sending us this story from the Associated Press, July 1997.]

A retired Air Force officer says he worked with high tech crash test dummies in the 1950s, and that there's no way they'd be confused with aliens described in rumors arising from the Roswell Incident.

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Raymond A. Madson said he isn't buying the latest Air Force explanation of what occurred in Roswell in July 1947. The Air Force believes crash test dummies used in the 1950s were mistaken for the rumored 1947 aliens and UFO buffs just got their dates mixed up.

Madson, 66, who now lives near Grants [New Mexico], said he was project officer for Project High Dive at Holloman Air Force Base for four years starting in the 1950s.

Madson said he sent photographs of Project High Dive dummies to the Pentagon for inclusion in the Air Force document, "The Roswell Report: Case Closed."

But he said the dummies do not match the descriptions of the very small, almost childlike beings purported to have been seen in 1947 near Roswell.

"They were testing these things (dummies) to try to protect grown men. They would never have used (dummies of) children for such experiments," he said.

Madson also served at Wright Patterson Air Force Base near Dayton, Ohio, before coming to Holloman. His wife worked at Wright Patterson as a secretary in the base medical laboratory, as well, he said.

Both of them heard serious talk about little green men who had been brought onto the base and studied secretly, he said. The subject of aliens never came up at Holloman, however.

"I think it was a highly kept secret at that time," he said. In contrast, there was nothing secret about his dummies, he said.

"The dummies were not covered up or hidden (when transported), and there was no security in the dummy drop phase of the experiments," he said.

And because the windblown dummies might end up falling just about anywhere, the Air Force even offered $25 rewards to local residents around Alamogordo to return the dummies to the base, he said. They were all stamped with labels identifying them as Air Force property, Madson said.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Colonel Calls Air Force Roswell Report a Lie

When the Air Force in 1997 released Roswell Report: Case Closed, its debunking of the famed crash incident of 1947, it relied heavily on information provided by Lt. Col. Raymond Madson, project officer in charge of the military's "crash test dummy" program known as "Project High Dive." Madson's program was cited as the definitive explanation for widely reported claims of small alien bodies said to be recovered after the crash. The representation was that witnesses had confused the dummies with creatures from another world. But now, Madson has come forward publicly to say that the Air Force study is "itself a lie." Moreover, he believes aliens really did crash to Earth in the incident, and that the author of the Air Force report had no interest in uncovering what really happened, but "was on a mission."

In an interview with on-line reporter Anthony Braglia (http://ufocon.blogspot.com/2009/04/af-roswell-studycontributor-admits-it.html), Madson argued that the dummies used in his project could never be mistaken for aliens. Nevertheless, Madson says that Captain James McAndrew, the report's author, ignored the fact that the six-foot dummies were too large and were not used until years after the Roswell event. It is clear to Madson, now 79, that the report was intended the provide a public cover story and nothing else.

Earlier in his career Madson worked at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio. At the time he had heard rumors of highy secure areas on the base where secret medical research was carried out. When the Roswell event unfolded, he found the notion that alien bodies had been transferred from Roswell to Wright-Patterson to be entirely plausible. Madson's wife, who, at the time, worked at the base's medical laboratory, agrees.

Of the four stories regarding the Roswell incident, only this story remains unrefuted.

What was recovered in 1947 that compells the Air Force to cover-up the Roswell incident to this very day?

[skyeagle409]

Im not so sure about the Roswell incident

If you actually read the 'Roswell Daily Record' and read the news story which is titled 'No Details Of Flying Disk Are Revealed' you can see the report which says that no details of the craft have been provided but it was flimsy and made if the material such as a box kite ..go check it for yourself

I want to add that when I was in Corpus Christi, TX on a defense contract, two gentlemen had made their way to Corpus Christi after their assignment at Roswell and have confirmed that the balloon story was a cover-up and that no balloon was involved. That was conveyed to me personally. I might add that 'Mac' Brazel had recovered weather balloons before the Roswell incident and no saucer story was generated for those recoveries. It has been confirmed that there was a large number of troops on the recovery teams and that there were two, not one, crash sites.

General Arthur Exon, Former Commanding Officer, Wright-Patterson AFB

General Arthur Exon was also the Air Force officer who overflew and confirmed the two Roswell crash sites.

Bodies

(Sandow) (C&S, p. 194)

[Exon spontaneously bringing up Roswell crash after being asked about rumors of little bodies at Wright-Patterson] "Yes, I have. In fact, I know people that were involved in photographing some of the residue from the New Mexico affair near Roswell."

[Whether bodies were flown to Wright Field] "That's my information...people I have known were involved with that."

(R&S) (C&S, p. 194)

"There was another location where ... apparently the main body of the spacecraft was ... where they did say there were bodies ...

(R&S)

They were all found, apparently, outside the craft itself but were in fairly good condition. In other words, they weren't broken up a lot"

"That's my information [that the bodies went to Wright Field]. But one of them went to the mortuary outfit ... I think at that time it was in Denver. But the strongest information was that they were brought to Wright-Pat."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More Regarding General Arthur Exon's Interview

Covering It Up

R&S)

Exon also knew something of the cover-up, especially the one originated at Roswell. Because he knew Blanchard [Roswell C/O], he said, "Blanchard's leave was a screen. It was his duty to go to the site and make a determination."

Concerning the cover-up, Exon pointed out that there were no secret balloon or weather devices that could account for the debris.

The lab men and officers at Wright Field, because it was their job, would have known if the debris fit into those categories. The balloon explanation was ready-made. "Blanchard could have cared less about a weather balloon," said Exon.

http://roswellproof....d.com/exon.html

Alien technology and bodies at Wright-Patterson AFB help explain why General Curtiss E. LeMay went balllistic on Senator Barry Goldwater.

Barry Goldwater United States Senate

Washington, D.C. March 28, 1975 Mr. Schlomo Arnon

U.C.D.A. Experimental College 308 Westwood Plaza Los Angeles, California 90024 Dear Mr. Arnon: The subject of UFOs is one that has interested me for some long time. About ten or twelve years ago I made an effort to find out what was in the building at Wright Patterson Air Force Base where the information is stored that has been collected by the Air Force, and I was understandably denied this request. It is still classified above Top Secret. I have, however, heard that there is a plan under way to release some, if not all, of this material in the near future. I'm just as anxious to see this material as you are, and I hope we will not have to wait too much longer. Sincerely Barry Goldwater

http://www.rense.com.../goldwater2.htm

I might add that a saucer was photographed by an Air Force aircraft that climbed as the object hovered over Wright-Patterson AFB from over 30,000 feet.

The Air Force said that Project Mogul was highly classified yet its experiments and photos of Project Mogul balloons were regularly reported in newspapers around the country.

Project Mogul Balloon Reports

Headlines:

Balloons -- Not Discs: Princeton Gadget Soars 20 Miles High; Records

No Atomic Explosions

28 Balloons Fail To Send Reports On Cosmic Rays -- Attain 20-Mile

Altitude, but Equipment Does Not Give Nuclear Explosion Data

Stratosphere Atom Explosions Probed

Sky Experiment Apparatus Found -- Flight in Stratosphere Fails to Show

Nuclear Explosions Data

Newark (N.J.) Sunday News, July 13, 1947, Front Page

Balloons---Not Discs

Princeton Gadget Soars 20 Miles High; Records No Atomic Explosions

Staff Correspondent.

PRINCETON-- 28-balloon "train" which soared 20 miles into the stratosphere in an effort to capture data on cosmic rays was reported descending last night in the neighborhood of Wilkes-Barre, Pa.

Princeton scientists, who conducted the experiment as part of a Navy research program, said no atomic explosions were recorded by the instruments but that other useful data was obtained. They explained that "something went wrong" with the aerial apparatus.

The helium-filled balloons, linked by nylon rope, took off from the Naval Ordnance Laboratory here at 10:50 A.M., heading skyward at 1,000 feet a minute.

Their cargo was a 17-pound cellophane-wrapped box containing a spherical ionization chamber filled with gases. A telemeter system was to transmit to the ground receiving station traces of nuclear explosions induced by cosmic rays passing through the gas-filled chamber.

You do not know that. You like to champion that position. Very big difference.

____________________________________________________________________________

Stratosphere Atom Explosions Probed

PRINCETON, N.J., July 12. (AP) A group of Princeton University scientists sent into the stratosphere today a flight of instrument-bearing balloons to measure atomic explosions induced by cosmic rays.

Dr. Henry De Wolf Smyth, director of the Naval Research program sponsoring the flight, said the cosmic explosions were similar to those which produced the atomic bomb, but were single explosions and not a chain reaction as in the bomb. He explained that the atomic explosions are natural phenomena similar to atomic explosions induced artificially by the cyclotron.

The 28 balloons, in several clusters secured by nylon rope, carried 17 pounds of instruments, and were expected to reach a height of 20 miles.

My link

The Soviet's first nuclear blast was detected, not by a Project Mogul balloon train, but by a modified B-29.

How to Detect an Atomic Bomb

The 375th Weather Reconnaissance Squadron now had what it needed. In April 1949 it began flying two daily missions out of Eielson Air Force Base, in Fairbanks, Alaska: One went to the North Pole and back, the other was a one-way to Yokuta, Japan, with a return flight the next day. Other routes could also be flown when necessary. Each plane carried 9-by-22-inch paper filters that picked up airborne particles and were checked on landing for radioactivity. If this radioactivity exceeded the natural background level, further measurements were taken to establish the cause.

When still more analysis was necessary, the filters were quickly flown to a new Tracerlab center in Berkeley, California. There the scientists dissolved them and carefully separated out certain fission products, including radioactive isotopes of barium, cerium, lead, molybdenum, and zirconium. They then calculated “radioactive birthdays” by measuring the rates of decay and counting backward to establish when each isotope had been created. Only if all the birthdays were identical could the isotopes have been created in an atomic explosion.

Shortly after the Soviet test, on 1 September 1949, a WB-29 ["W" for weather reconnaissance] operated by the Air Force's Weather Service undertook a routine flight from Misawa Air Force Base (Japan) to Eilson Air Force Base (Alaska) on behalf of the secretive Air Force Office of Atomic Energy-1 [AFOAT-1] [later renamed the Air Force Technical Applications Center, or AFTAC]. The plane carried special filters designed to pick up the radiological debris that an atmospheric atomic test would inevitably create. So far none of the flights in the Northern Pacific had picked up a scent, but after this flight returned to Eilson and a huge Geiger counter checked the filters, the technicians detected radioactive traces. This was the 112th alert of the Atomic Energy Detection System (the previous 111 had been caused by natural occurrences, such as earthquakes). After a complex chain of events, involving more flights to collect more air samples,

consultations among U.S. government scientists, consultants, and contractors, including radiological analysis by Tracerlab and Los Alamos Laboratory, and secret consultations with the British government, the U.S. intelligence community concluded that Moscow had indeed conducted a nuclear test. On 23 September 1949, President Truman announced that "We have evidence that within recent weeks an atomic explosion occurred in the U.S.S.R."

http://nsarchive.gwu...kevault/ebb286/

The Air Force had deliberately misled the public on a false weather balloon story and Project Mogul in order to cover-up the Roswell recoveries. What is compelling the Air Force to cover-up the Roswell incident to this very day?

Edited April 3, 2015 by skyeagle409

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

The fact that there's firm evidence of Mogul balloons being an open secret and not something they' try and distract people from by shouting "ALIENS!" suggests to me that there is indeed something extra at work.

There are two options - it was an alien craft, or it's a massive distraction exercise designed to act as a "controlled introduction" of the alien concept to the public.

[JVG]

The fact that there's firm evidence of Mogul balloons being an open secret and not something they' try and distract people from by shouting "ALIENS!" suggests to me that there is indeed something extra at work.

There are two options - it was an alien craft, or it's a massive distraction exercise designed to act as a "controlled introduction" of the alien concept to the public.

Well said....

[DeeSember]

I have an odd story that involves Roswell, kinda off topic though. Anyway, I live in central Mississippi, one day (about 10 years ago) a milk crate from Natures Dairy Roswell NM. was in my carport and I have no clue where it came from.

I asked everyone I could think of about it, nobody has any idea how it came to be in my carport. It is thick red plastic and very handy as a step stool, I use it when I need to clean walls and get things from top shelves.

I have thought about buying an alien doll and displaying it in the crate and selling it on Ebay.

[Jacques Terreur]

I have an odd story that involves Roswell, kinda off topic though. Anyway, I live in central Mississippi, one day (about 10 years ago) a milk crate from Natures Dairy Roswell NM. was in my carport and I have no clue where it came from.

I asked everyone I could think of about it, nobody has any idea how it came to be in my carport. It is thick red plastic and very handy as a step stool, I use it when I need to clean walls and get things from top shelves.

I have thought about buying an alien doll and displaying it in the crate and selling it on Ebay.

contact me if you put one of those "boyd bushman" alien dolls in it....

[psyche101]

The fact that there's firm evidence of Mogul balloons being an open secret and not something they' try and distract people from by shouting "ALIENS!" suggests to me that there is indeed something extra at work.

There are two options - it was an alien craft, or it's a massive distraction exercise designed to act as a "controlled introduction" of the alien concept to the public.

Well if nothing else, this thread has given Sky a chance to air out every Roswell link in his favourites list, it is the same old crap we have been seeing for decades now, it meant zilch then and it does now. Each and every part is carefully fabricated to appear genuine when even a cursory inspection reveals that is not the case.

Sky is looking for a MOGUL advocate to have all the same arguments with, and to spread the links we have already seen on the first page over and again through to theard to flood it so people just leave it in disgust, with him alone to proclaim victory again. Seen it so many times it is predictable and boring. He does not seem to believe that I have dismissed MOGUL in light of the best evidence for the case to surface to date - Lost Shamans Intel Ops hypothesis.

If it had anything to do with aliens, we would know by now, it is really that simple. All this garbage about cover ups no longer applies as the FOIA requests have uncovered all the goodies, and still we have squat. ll that has happened is the story has grown bigger, some sources now claiming between three and six crash sites, and up to and over 600 witnesses, to which not a single retelling supports.

Lost Shaman sorted Roswell out, and he is the one Sky needs to discuss this with, as Lost Shamans hypothesis cannot be dented, but MOGUL can, and the Alien story just gets sillier with every retelling.

UFOLogy has turned Roswell into the biggest joke. Nothing more. It is interesting from the Intel Ops aspect, and how that was carried out, and piecing it together, but the alien rubbish is old hat, boring and really, rather childish and stupid.

Before people start asking - here is a link to Lost Shamans hypothesis regarding Intel Ops. Knock yourself out, I cannot falsify it, I have seen Sky attempt to and fail, and I have not seen anyone dent it. As far as a hypothesis goes, this is the winner on Roswell, hands down.

Shame the UFOlogists do not have the gumption to even look at it. I suspect many have, and know they have been bested here. For me now, Roswell is a mystery in the way of Jesse Marcel, was the the dumbest SOB to ever join the USAF who could not tell tinfoil from a spaceship or the smartest, who took and real Intel Ops secret to his grave, spouting a silly alien claim to cover it all up? What we do know is the entire ideal is beyond belief - imagine it. An alien species just happen to build a spaceship out of materials that just happen to look exactly like Balsa wood, and rubber backed tinfoil and then wander the galaxy, and then just happen to crash this ship in the tiny corner of the universe where the local inhabitants just happen to be carrying out experiments with materials like Balsa wood and rubber backed tinfoil.

I mean what do you reckon those odds just might be??? LOL

Edited April 4, 2015 by psyche101

[skyeagle409]

The fact that there's firm evidence of Mogul balloons being an open secret and not something they' try and distract people from by shouting "ALIENS!" suggests to me that there is indeed something extra at work.

There are two options - it was an alien craft, or it's a massive distraction exercise designed to act as a "controlled introduction" of the alien concept to the public.

That is interesting because I once mentioned something about the government testing the grounds in that respect. In other words, not broadcasting everything at once to see what happens in the street and the reaction of the stock market.

In 1960, NASA was warned of the consequences should ET visitation be revealed.

SPACE-LIFE REPORT COULD BE SHOCK, UFO

Vol. I, No. II (Dec 1960 - Jan 1961 issue)

The discovery of intelligent space beings could have a severe effect on the public, according to a research report released by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. The report warned that America should prepare to meet the psychological impact of such a revelation.

The 190-page report was the result of a $96,000 one-year study conducted by the Brookings Institution for NASA's long-range study committee.

Public realization that intelligent beings live on other planets could bring about profound changes, or even the collapse of our civilization, the research report stated.

http://www.nicap.org...a_spacelife.jpg

Once ET visitation is officially revealed, there will be no turning back and from that point on, the world will never be the same and how we look at the night sky will be changed forever. What will be the reaction of the stock market? How many people today were aware of what was happening at the United Nations?

The UN Gets a Warning About UFOs

Flying Saucers and UFOs 1969, Page 64, Vol. 3, 1969

Summary:

Ever since June 30th, 1965, UN Secretary-General U Thant had been in possession of a grave warning concerning the potential threat posed by the phenomena of Unidentified Flying Objects.

This dire warning was issued by Colman VonKeviczky, Director of the Intercontinental UFO Research and Analytic Network. It clearly sounded a call for the United Nations to look to its defenses against an invasion from outer space, or else suffer the consequences of a failure to heed such a warning.

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U.N. General Assembly Now Has Resolution To Establish United Nations Decade Of Contact & Diplomatic Relations With E.T.s

For the first time in almost 27 years, the United Nations General Assembly will be debating the issue of establishing diplomatic relations with advanced Extraterrestrial Civilizations that may now be visiting Earth.

On December 16, 2005, a Resolution to establish a United Nations Decade of Contact was formally transmitted to the incoming President of the General Assembly, H.E. Jan Eliasson of Sweden by the Institute for Cooperation in Space (ICIS), a Non-Governmental Organization. President Eliasson was Sweden's Ambassador to the United Nations from 2000 to 2005.

Almost to the day twenty-seven years ago, on December 18, 1978, the United Nations General Assembly voted to approve decision 33/426, inviting U.N. Member States "to take appropriate steps to coordinate on a national level scientific research and investigation into extraterrestrial life, including unidentified flying objects, and to inform the Secretary-General of the observations, research and evaluation of such activities."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. J. Allen Hynek

Speaking at the United Nations

Nov. 27th 1978

Mr. Chairman:

I am delighted to have been invited by Sir Eric Gairy and the Grenada Mission to speak to this committee on behalf of many of my scientific colleagues about the subject of Unidentified Flying Objects. Many years ago, in conversation with His Excellency, U. Thant, I was informed by him that protocol demanded that a member nation first bring a subject up in the General Assembly before any action on that subject could be initiated.

Now, many years later, one of the smallest nations on the Earth has courageously introduced the perplexing subject of UFOs to the General Assembly, and thus made possible this meeting today. I commend the initiative his excellency Sir Eric Gairy has taken; he has trod where mightier nations have feared to tread.

http://www.newciv.or...0092-000106.htm

Several years ago, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that the National Archives began releasing declassified UFO files and now, other countries around the world have been coming on board as well.

Chile announces UFOs are for real:

On 2nd April 1997, Chilean newspaper "La Cuarta" has the following headline: "UFO Sighting of Arica is Confirmed by La Direccion General de Aeronautic Civil." Chile did start to join the small number of countries who officially stated that the nature of UFOs is of intelligent driven flying machines.

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PERU AIR FORCE SETS UP UFO OFFICE:

The Miami Herald US newspaper reported that the Peruvian Air Forces have now set up a nationwide system to track alleged UFOs, whose flashing lights seem to be distracting pilots and radar operators from doing their jobs.

"The Air Force is concerned about the disturbances in our air space," said Air Force Commander Julio Chamorro, who sees unidentified flying objects as a threat to national security.

http://ufologie.net/htm/offichili.htm

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Chilean Government Turned Over Secret UFO Files To U.S.

Santiago, Feb 18 (AFP-NA)-- The Chilean Air Force (FACH) turned

over secret information regarding UFO sightings to the U.S.

Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) according to statements issued

in Santiago on Sunday by Ovnivision, an organization composed of

researchers of this phenomenon.

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Declassification of UFO documents

Declassification of UFO documents began by the United Kingdom in 2008. Russia, Ecuador, France, Denmark, Brazil, Sweden, Canada and many countries follow that decision during 2009 making public some of the material they had in possession. The government of New Zealand has stated that it will release UFO files in 2010 after personal information is removed.

http://en.wikipedia....f_UFO_documents

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China Discloses UFO Reality: Aliens Sending UFO Probes

Herehttp://goldenageofgaia.com/2010/08/23/michael-cohen-china-discloses-ufo-reality-aliens-sending-ufo-probes-here/

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Russian Navy Reveals Its Secret UFO Encounters

http://www.foxnews.c...ufo-encounters/

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Uruguay Declassify UFO records.

http://www.colinandr...Declassify.html

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New Zealand releases UFO files

http://www.telegraph...-UFO-files.html

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Is the Vatican preparing Catholics for the day of revelation?

Vatican: It's OK for Catholics to Believe in Aliens

http://www.foxnews.c...ieve-in-aliens/

I am expecting more information to be revealed on the Roswell incident as the years roll on and I am expecting much of that information to come directly from Wright-Patterson AFB, OH.

.

Edited April 4, 2015 by skyeagle409

[skyeagle409]

Sky is looking for a MOGUL advocate to have all the same arguments with, and to spread the links we have already seen on the first page over and again through to theard to flood it so people just leave it in disgust, with him alone to proclaim victory again. Seen it so many times it is predictable and boring. He does not seem to believe that I have dismissed MOGUL in light of the best evidence for the case to surface to date - Lost Shamans Intel Ops hypothesis.

It is duly noted for the record that you have now dismissed a Project Mogul balloon train as responsible for the Roswell incident. However, the intel Ops hypothesis does not work because the Roswell cover-up remains in effect to this very day. Since 1947, the Air Force trashed its weather balloon story in 1994 and concocted additional cover stories in 1997, all of which have been sucessfully refuted with facts and evidence to where only the original flying saucer recovery story remains unrefuted to this very day.

If it had anything to do with aliens, we would know by now, it is really that simple. All this garbage about cover ups no longer applies as the FOIA requests have uncovered all the goodies, and still we have squat. ll that has happened is the story has grown bigger, some sources now claiming between three and six crash sites, and up to and over 600 witnesses, to which not a single retelling supports.

There were only two crash sites, not six. If I remember right, you were pushing very hard on Project Mogul until I posted documentation proving that no such flight occurred on June 4, 1947, but how long did it take for you to come around to that reality?

[Saru]

Please tone down the amount of material you are quoting Sky - you post far, far too much of it in these threads.

Thank you.

[Holographic60]

Sure, project Mogul certainly may have existed during the Cold War.

However, regarding it as the explanation for the Roswell incident?

IT'S FULL OF HOLES!

From the Disclosure Project interviews, here is a testimony of a first hander, the Roswell Mortician who approprated the special coffins for the bodies. And?

There's a heck of alot more interviews than this, with the Disclosure Project.

[toast]

Well if nothing else, this thread has given Sky a chance to air out every Roswell link in his favourites list, it is the same old crap we have been seeing

for decades now, it meant zilch then and it does now. Each and every part is carefully fabricated to appear genuine when even a cursory inspection

reveals that is not the case.

CT:

- an unmanned, extraterrestrial interstellar probe has landed in Roswell in 1947

- the probe has been recovered by the US military

- some civilians, and some low level military staff as well, got knowledge about the event and/or saw extraterrestrial equipment

- cover up is required and mandatory for various reasons

- lets call the probe event the "A" scenario

- the view point on "A" must be splitted into two directions, of which none is direted to "A"

- the view point on "A" must be swiveled away from "A" by:

- create a "B" and create a "C" scenario

- "B" and "C" must be in opposite (left/right) to each other and directed away from "A", which is technical speaking, above

- "B" to be the constructed Mogul scenario

- "C" to be the constructed cover up scenario, containing stuff about creatures of extraterrestrial origin, dead and/or alive

- create "C" by using faked testimonials, pics, vids, faked articles in the media and related blogs in relation to supposed extraterrestrial creatures or remains of these

- create "C" as absurd as possible to get the maximum distance to "B"

- install a kind of public relation department for "C"

- the existence of the department, and its staff as well, is subject to confidentiality at the highest level possibe

- man the department with ppl that are experienced in the fields of military aviation, astronautics and attributive technologies

- the department have to flood the public with "C" related stuff permanently

- the "C" department/group always have to act proactive

- the public will automatically separate itself into "B" believers and "C" believers

- group "B" and group "C" are permanently engaged to debunk the views of the opposite group

- result: "A" is out of focus

[badeskov]

Sure, project Mogul certainly may have existed during the Cold War.

Not may, DID EXIST! Do you know anything about history whatsoever? Do you even know what Project Mogul was and why it was important?

However, regarding it as the explanation for the Roswell incident?

IT'S FULL OF HOLES!

Please do point out said holes. In detail. I bet you cannot!

From the Disclosure Project interviews, here is a testimony of a first hander, the Roswell Mortician who approprated the special coffins for the bodies. And?

There's a heck of alot more interviews than this, with the Disclosure Project.

You have no idea how ludicrous that is, do you? First of all, the joke of the disclosure project, secondly a reference to the mortician, a story that has been debunked over and over as a complete fabrication. You seriously have done no study of this subject at all, have you? It is glaringly obvious that you have not.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[DONTEATUS]

Hack ! Hack ! Hack ! sweet,hair-ball !

[dazdillinjah]

Cheers Badeskov ..yep that mortician story must rank amongst the best horse pucky ever relayed along with that guy who knew a nurse who doesnt exist ..Im talking about actual facts & not many people refer to that initial newspaper report yea. Now if the object WAS made of box kite material, I..I just dont believe it could be capable of any type of space travel ?? what was it ? heaven only knows ..If a flying disc did crash then what is the object made of box kite type material ..I sense we've had a dose of dog wallop that pays the charlatans alot of money hey

[skyeagle409]

Sure, project Mogul certainly may have existed during the Cold War.

However, regarding it as the explanation for the Roswell incident?

IT'S FULL OF HOLES!

You've got that right!

As mentioned earlier, Project Mogul balloon train #4, the balloon train the Air Force claimed was launched on June 4, 1947 and responsible for the Roswell incident, was never flown on June 4, because of clouds. There was a stipulation between the CAA (now the FAA) and the Project Mogul balloon team that no Project Mogul balloon train be launched on cloudy days due to their flight hazards and June 4, 1947 was a cloudy day. The restriction requirement was that balloon flights be made only on days that are cloudless up to 20,000 feet.

It amazes me that for 47 years, the Air Force managed to fool a number of people that a weather balloon was responsible for the Roswell incident while ignoring the fact that 'Mac' Brazel had recovered weather balloons on previous occasions, but what amazes me even more is that those same people had allowed the Air Force to fooled them once again on a Project Mogul balloon train #4 flight that never was and all they had to do was to check the balloon records of A.P. Crary to understand that there was no such flight.

Project Mogul balloons were simply research balloons, but it is apparent that the Air Force also managed to convince those same folks that Project Mogul balloons were highly classified, which was not the case at all, and again, all they had to do was to check the balloon records.

It is no secret that there were large number of troops involved in the Roswell clean-up and since it only takes one to two people to recover a downed Mogul balloon, it is clear that clean-up efforts involving those troops had nothing to do with balloons of any kind. Furthermore, there would have been no reason for the Air Force to concoct two additional cover stories, (1994 and 1997) over an unclassified Project Mogul balloon train flight that never was as the record shows.

[skyeagle409]

Cheers Badeskov ..yep that mortician story must rank amongst the best horse pucky ever relayed along with that guy who knew a nurse who doesnt exist ..Im talking about actual facts & not many people refer to that initial newspaper report yea. Now if the object WAS made of box kite material, I..I just dont believe it could be capable of any type of space travel ?? what was it ? heaven only knows ..If a flying disc did crash then what is the object made of box kite type material ..I sense we've had a dose of dog wallop that pays the charlatans alot of money hey

Photos of debris in General Ramey's office depicted a weather balloon rawin device, however, that rawin device was taken out of storage and deliberately destroyed and placed on display in Ramey's office. Two of the military officers who posed with the debris, Col. Thomas Dubose and Major Jesse Marcel, have said that the debris they posed with was not recovered from the Foster ranch.

On another note, inflatable spacecraft have been developed over the years and in fact, the Goodyear folks developed an inflatable airplane that flew two people.

[Whisperer]

I am still fascinated by this story and the effort that goes into debunking it, most enlightening.....If one took all the elements that comprise it as a whole, it would make one hell of a movie....Maybe that will be my next project.

Keep it up guys, its all so very exciting....

[Whisperer]

*connection Glitch...made double post*

Edited April 5, 2015 by Whisperer

[Derek Willis]

Perhaps the debris found near Corona was something to do with testing V-2 missiles at White Sands. (I understand the Roswell incident was actually nearer Corona than Roswell - have I got that right?)

[bee]

Cheers Badeskov ..yep that mortician story must rank amongst the best horse pucky ever relayed along with that guy who knew a nurse who doesnt exist ..Im talking about actual facts & not many people refer to that initial newspaper report yea. Now if the object WAS made of box kite material, I..I just dont believe it could be capable of any type of space travel ?? what was it ? heaven only knows ..If a flying disc did crash then what is the object made of box kite type material ..I sense we've had a dose of dog wallop that pays the charlatans alot of money hey

Oh NO...!!! Not another liar (the mortician)...who forgot a nurses name? - after 30 or 40 years had passed by - - -?

there must be soooooo many of them - liars - hundreds - including high ranking army, navy, airforce, astronauts etc etc -

either that or they are soooo gullible and stupid and believe the fiendish Grand Deception perpetrated by Unknown Shadowy People -

actively trying to con us all - even up to this very day -

/sarcasm

thank heavens we have anonymous naysayers on the internet who generously give up their time to put us all straight

on these matters - -

/extreme sarcasm

.

Edited April 5, 2015 by bee