The Christian God, a slave of laws.

[jack0fhearts]

I have come across many people that have a rather off-key emotion towards God. Off-key? Ya, it's because I think God was made by laws. It wouldn't make sense if he was happy when you were sad now does it, or if he was angry when you ask him for forgiveness.

It would seem that God is just a machine that converts input to output. Basically you reap what you sow. An eye for an eye. You sin, you're punished. You do good, you're blessed.

Basically, my conclusion is. If he did have free-will, could he harm you when you have been faithful and loyal to him, or could he bless you when you sinned and not seeking repentance? That's the whole idea. God cannot go against himself, so if he encourages people to live righteous lives, and those who do, become him. And thus he is powerless against the righteous. Either that or, God can sin afterall!

[Ashley-Star*Child]

Ok, I still say that God, no matter what He does can't sin which I explained and that He does have free will - but everyone's entitled to their own opinion. But yes, technically, God can forgive if you've sinned, and be angry even if you're good. Bottom line, God can break His own rules if He wants to. You just have to have a good enough reason for it.

If it was all about laws and rules, I don't think anyone would make it to Heaven. Like I said before, when Jesus came here, one of the many things He did was change the way the Jewish community was interpreting those rules. He said they could be broken, because it's not just about the rule. However, he didn't sasy ignore the rules either. I think alot has to do with motive as much as or even more than action.

Edited March 1, 2005 by Ashley-Star*Child

[jack0fhearts]

Bottom line, God can break His own rules if He wants to. You just have to have a good enough reason for it.

506588[/snapback]

More to the point please, could he break a rule with no reason at all? Again, he is governed by laws.

If it was all about laws and rules, I don't think anyone would make it to Heaven.

506588[/snapback]

And then again, if it wasn't all about laws and rules, we could sin without consequence. But that's not the case, laws have existed forever. And technically, we still could make it to Heaven if it was all about laws and rules. The law dictated that Christ should happen. Looks like law is responsible for yet another multitude among multitudes entering heaven if not all its guests in heaven.

[kwai]

Basically, my conclusion is. If he did have free-will, could he harm you when you have been faithful and loyal to him, or could he bless you when you sinned and not seeking repentance?

506579[/snapback]

What About Job?? He messed him up just to prove a point to Satan and Job was nothing but a faithful servant.

[The Raven]

Ok, I still say that God, no matter what He does can't sin which I explained and that He does have free will - but everyone's entitled to their own opinion. But yes, technically, God can forgive if you've sinned, and be angry even if you're good. Bottom line, God can break His own rules if He wants to. You just have to have a good enough reason for it.

If it was all about laws and rules, I don't think anyone would make it to Heaven. Like I said before, when Jesus came here, one of the many things He did was change the way the Jewish community was interpreting those rules. He said they could be broken, because it's not just about the rule. However, he didn't sasy ignore the rules either. I think alot has to do with motive as much as or even more than action.

506588[/snapback]

Very interesting. When has God broken his own rules; when has God sinned? How do you know if God can forgive and forgot as well as smite and destroy, have you ever invoked these feelings in him, and if so, how do you know it wasn't all in your head -- Whole viking cities have been converted by sinister Christian preists that used tricks to convert them.

How do you know you just don't say it's God when something good happens, because you have no other way to explain it. Why do the good people, was it "Because God can make mistakes and it was probably their time?" If god is a perfect and divine being he wouldn't make mistakes because perfect is based on weak human ideals. God is never blamed when good people die, and always blamed when something good happens - people just don't seem to want to see the truth.

Edited March 1, 2005 by The Raven

[Ashley-Star*Child]

And then again, if it wasn't all about laws and rules, we could sin without consequence. But that's not the case, laws have existed forever. And technically, we still could make it to Heaven if it was all about laws and rules. The law dictated that Christ should happen. Looks like law is responsible for yet another multitude among multitudes entering heaven if not all its guests in heaven.

Prohpecy dictated Jesus would happen. No one but prohpets went to Heaven before Jesus, soin effect, Jesus changed the law. I still say God can change the law.

What About Job?? He messed him up just to prove a point to Satan and Job was nothing but a faithful servant.

Yeah, that's because that's what satan's job is. To test the faithfulness of someone to God. Everyone has test and trials. Free will doesn't come completely free.

[jack0fhearts]

Basically, my conclusion is. If he did have free-will, could he harm you when you have been faithful and loyal to him, or could he bless you when you sinned and not seeking repentance?

506579[/snapback]

What About Job?? He messed him up just to prove a point to Satan and Job was nothing but a faithful servant.

506598[/snapback]

God didn't. It was Satan who did the subtracting. When Job didn't balance the law for himself by cursing God, God did the addition in the end.

You see? That situation resolves itself, it's balanced. My question is, can God do something, with which he will not balance?

I imagine he can't.

[AzTide]

The Ten Commandments is probably the greatest laws of God given to man.

[The Raven]

And then again, if it wasn't all about laws and rules, we could sin without consequence. But that's not the case, laws have existed forever. And technically, we still could make it to Heaven if it was all about laws and rules. The law dictated that Christ should happen. Looks like law is responsible for yet another multitude among multitudes entering heaven if not all its guests in heaven.

Prohpecy dictated Jesus would happen. No one but prohpets went to Heaven before Jesus, soin effect, Jesus changed the law. I still say God can change the law.

506603[/snapback]

Does that mean I can change the laws too? Right now I say all pagans go to heaven. Was that written about in prohecy, and what is your prophecy based on, Greek Oracles and the like? They seem to be "Satanic," and got their prohecies from inhaling gases over cracks in the ground. I bet the prophecy never existed until after Jesus, it was just written that it was in the Bible a one made up, and everyone agreed with it because they were too weak to explore anything else.

If free will is not exactly free, what is free? You can't keep changing the rules to agree with your opinion.

Edited March 1, 2005 by The Raven

[jack0fhearts]

The Ten Commandments is probably the greatest laws of God given to man.

506605[/snapback]

Yeah, really? God instructed men to obey the ten commandments because God himself obeys them too, doesn't he?

[AzTide]

And they are simple to understand.

No need to hire a lawyer to interpit them..........

Lawyers the scurge of the earth.

[jack0fhearts]

k_ksdad, you said the ten commandments are probably the greatest law given from God to man. But who says those commandments belong to God? They don't. If they did belong to God, he would be able to change them. But he can't.. He cannot sin for he is bound by laws.

[AzTide]

Well from what I understand he created these to help guide man.

Rather than just letting man determine the basics.

Because as we all can tell no 2 people on this site let alone in the world completely agree.

The U.S. House and Senate or the Republicans and Democrats are proof of that.

[The Raven]

The U.S. House and Senate or the Republicans and Democrats are proof of that.

506626[/snapback]

Did you know that the founding fathers of the United States did not want polotical parties, they viewed them as corrupt and a way to divide the people, and never wanted them to touch our young country. At the end of Washington's 2nd term, parties were already starting to be formed. During the civil war it sure divided the people -- not just the Union and the Confederacy, but the Democrats the Southern Democrats.

Parties sure have corrupted, especially since they were not supposed to exist. The Ten Commandments and the Bible have corrupted too, and have divided the world; seems to have caused more panic and hopelessness than govern the world and introduce them to the surpeme law of the lord -- I have the same view on them as I do the parties. When you think about it for awhile, they are A LOT alike.

Edited March 1, 2005 by The Raven

[AzTide]

To add to that Raven the Constitution and the Bill of Rights read more of what you CAN'T do rather than what we citizens ARE allowed to do.

The founding fathers foreseen at least in some small bit the problems religion could have with government if either religion or government was too strong.

[jack0fhearts]

Well from what I understand he created these to help guide man.

506626[/snapback]

But if God created the law, and the law came after him, he would have been able to sin without breaking the laws since they hadn't existed. God was a sinner prior to law? Still, I'm hard on my beliefs that law was not made by God, but rather the creator of God.

Because as we all can tell no 2 people on this site let alone in the world completely agree.

The U.S. House and Senate or the Republicans and Democrats are proof of that.

506626[/snapback]

Of course, the world is in conflict because it disagrees with the output gained through their input.

[The Raven]

To add to that Raven the Constitution and the Bill of Rights read more of what you CAN'T do rather than what we citizens ARE allowed to do.

The founding fathers foreseen at least in some small bit the problems religion could have with government if either religion or government was too strong.

506636[/snapback]

True, but I guess that makes a threesome. 3 powers spread throughout the world that are too strong for their own good:

Government, The Ten Commandments & Bible, Democrats and Republicans.

How are they alike you ask?

-All have caused wars

-All have taken life

-All have divided people

-All have damaged the quality of life

-All have repressed and discriminated

-All have millions upon millions of followers

-All are too powerful for their own good

Call me an Anarchist if you will, but it seems as though even a chaotic anarchy would cause less harm than what these 3 sinister creations have done.

Edited March 1, 2005 by The Raven

[AzTide]

The most constructive yet destructive thing on Earth is man's opion.

For the most part we want others to have their own as long as it matchs ours............

[The Raven]

The most constructive yet destructive thing on Earth is man's opion.

For the most part we want others to have their own as long as it matchs ours............

506653[/snapback]

Those are wise words, in fact some of the wisest I've heard on these forums for a long time. Some people like a freestyle and chaotic life, but yes, everyone wants to have matchning opinions -- but it adds spice to life, unfortunatly sometimes that spice turns into conflicts in which millions die.

[jack0fhearts]

The most constructive yet destructive thing on Earth is man's opion.

506653[/snapback]

Because our opinion enforces the law to correspond accordingly with its sentence.

[Edit: Oh and I forgot to add, if you say the most constructive yet destructive thing on earth is man's opinion, kudos to you. God has no rank in how much of a constructive or destructive influence he has. Like I said, he is employed to grant stuff according to the law.]

Edited March 1, 2005 by kerkido

[AzTide]

The law is not enforced to the sentence of the law but to the spirit of the law.

This allows these wacked out judges to pass down rulings that defy common sense.

[Consummate Deist]

Just to correct some misconceptions:

The Ten Commandments is probably the greatest laws of God given to man.

With the exceptions of "Keep no God before Me", "Keep the Sabbath holy", and "Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain", all the so called "God-given" commandments are copies of laws in Hamurabi's code, written 600 years before Moses was born! These "commandments" have been part of the moral concepts of every culture that existed before the Hebrews, contemparary with the Hebrews and after the Hebrews.....nothing really original in the "10 Commandments"

To add to that Raven the Constitution and the Bill of Rights read more of what you CAN'T do rather than what we citizens ARE allowed to do.

Actually the aforementioned documents read what the Federal and State Governments can't do! Since private citizens can't make laws (directly) this makes sense. The Founding Fathers forsaw that Christianity would attempt to subsume the government (as it had done every European and Asia Minor government since the Romans) and wrote protection against that action into the Constitution's Bill of Rights! - CD

[AzTide]

The Fore Fathers also understood that man is guilable and corruptable.

And no matter how they wrote the documents that helped to create the foundation for the new country. They knew that future politicians and religious leaders would find a way to get the masses to agree with them even when it went against common sense.

So in a way they attempted to play both sides against each other in hopes of keep the country from becoming a dictatorship or a religous state.

[lightbeyondthedark]

What About Job?? He messed him up just to prove a point to Satan and Job was nothing but a faithful servant.

506598[/snapback]

Good point...

My question is, can God do something, with which he will not balance?

I imagine he can't.

506604[/snapback]

Well I agree too... There doesn't need to be balance in all things...

Take what Jesus did as an example... He died for all our sins for no other reason then to save us... We did not pay anything to him for that... So thats not a real balanced transaction, but I am cool with it... lol

And the day Jesus dies for us, he defeated death and sin... SO thats not really in balance anymore either... IMO...

God instructed men to obey the ten commandments because God himself obeys them too, doesn't he?

506611[/snapback]

The 10 commandment were laws from God given to men... Not Gods laws given to men...

I really don't believe God operates under any laws, hes the law maker... But he always keeps his word, thats one thing he will never break...

Just my humble opinion...

LBD

~peace

[zandore]

I just thought of something ....Why didn't god just have another flood instead of having Jesus die on the cross?