80 replies to this topic

[freetoroam]

the L, on 26 January 2013 - 08:17 PM, said:

yup.

Phewww.

[the L]

It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.
You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive.

2Pac

Edited by the L, 26 January 2013 - 08:28 PM.

[AsteroidX]

Gun control is NOT a way to decrease rapes but double tap on the M****s is.

[ouija ouija]

Here are the bits that most interested me in the link that Sky Scanner posted(in his post #19).

The study was done in 1980/1981 and involved 114 male convicted rapists. All the men had raped adult women(a few had raped teenage girls), none had raped men or children.
82% had a criminal history already. Only 23% had previous sexual offences.
42% were married or co-habiting at the time of the rape.
26% had a history of emotional problems.

'Obviously the sample was not random and this may not be representative of all rapists.'

Some rapists who admitted to rape, like most of the ones who denied what they had done was 'rape', claimed that women enjoy being raped.

As long as the victim survived without major physical injury, from the rapist's perspective, a rape had not taken place. INDEED, EVEN U.S. COURTS HAVE OFTEN TAKEN THE POSITION THAT PHYSICAL INJURY IS A NECESSARY INGREDIENT FOR A RAPE CONVICTION.

Nelson & Amir(1975), defined hitch-hike rape as a victim-precipitated offence.

There is a 'CULTURAL VIEW' of men being sexually masterful and women being coy and seductive.

Justifications and excuses(by the rapist), are buttressed by the CULTURAL VIEW of women as sexual commodities, dehumanised and devoid of autonomy and dignity.

In this sense, the sexual objectification of women must be understood as an important factor contributing to an environment that trivialises, neutralises, and, perhaps, facilitates rape.

Our research, however, based on volunteers from the entire prison population, indicates that some rapists, like deny-ers, viewed and understood their behaviour from a popular cultural perspective. This strongly suggests that CULTURAL PERSPECTIVES, and not an idiosyncratic illness, motivated their behaviour.

[Sky Scanner]

^ All of the above are qualified with 'perhaps' ' maybe' and 'sometimes', and for a good reason, because there isn't one answer to this topic, that's one of the problems with just highlighting certain lines.

Anyway, we have different opinions on this, having 3 sisters I don't want them moulding the way they choose to dress or present themselves or their opinions in line with trying to avoid the unwanted attention of some rapist. What I want them to do (and thankfully they are like this anyway) is be streetwise about people, always be on top in terms of knowing their surroundings and the people they choose to be with and trust, and learn some self defense too. When my nieces are old enough i'll tell them the same thing.

So.we're not going to agree on this.

[the L]

Sky Scanner, on 26 January 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

What I want them to do (and thankfully they are like this anyway) is be streetwise about people, always be on top in terms of knowing their surroundings and the people they choose to be with and trust, and learn some self defense too. When my nieces are old enough i'll tell them the same thing.

Going on public bus with friend and to end up like rape victim dont have nothing with streetwise. Neither black belt will save you from six stronger attackers.

Edited by the L, 26 January 2013 - 09:38 PM.

[Sky Scanner]

the L, on 26 January 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

Going on public bus with friend and to end up like rape victim dont have nothing with streetwise.

I have no idea what you said, or was trying to say.

[freetoroam]

the L, on 26 January 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

Going on public bus with friend and to end up like rape victim dont have nothing with streetwise. Neither black belt will save you from six stronger attackers.

Are you refering to the incident in India?

[the L]

freetoroam, on 26 January 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

Are you refering to the incident in India?

Yup again.

[Sky Scanner]

the L, on 26 January 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

Going on public bus with friend and to end up like rape victim dont have nothing with streetwise. Neither black belt will save you from six stronger attackers.

Ok, you've added to it. Well i'm 6'6" and reasonably able to handle myself, but if some 14yr old skinny kid decides to stab me one night when my back is turned then i'm brown bread anyway, regardless of size. Point being, you can only protect yourself to a point, you still have to live your life too, and sometimes, no matter what protection you take bad things still happen unfortunately.

So i'm still not sure what your point is tbh.

Edited by Sky Scanner, 26 January 2013 - 09:46 PM.

[Mr Right Wing]

ouija ouija, on 26 January 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

Here are the bits that most interested me in the link that Sky Scanner posted(in his post #19).

The study was done in 1980/1981 and involved 114 male convicted rapists. All the men had raped adult women(a few had raped teenage girls), none had raped men or children.
82% had a criminal history already. Only 23% had previous sexual offences.
42% were married or co-habiting at the time of the rape.
26% had a history of emotional problems.

Kind of the same as I was saying with the men who have the potential to rape being abusive, having mood problems, having impulsive behaviour, being law breakers and engaging in sexual deviancy.

When a parent doesnt lay out proper boundaries to a child (they dont know what proper boundaries are or dont invest in bringing the kid up) two things happen -
1. The child doesnt learn to obey rules.
2. Not having to obey rules means it doesnt learn to regulate its thoughts, impulses or feelings so it can obey then.

The result is an adult that things it can behave as it wishes and doesnt see the problem with it. (Learning problems caused by genetics can also stop them understanding boundaries).

The easy way to test if a man or woman is a nut is to give them a little put down and see how they take it. If they havent learnt to regulate their thoughts, impulses and feelings they will turn volatile on you.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 26 January 2013 - 09:47 PM.

[the L]

Sky Scanner, on 26 January 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

Ok, you've added to it. Well i'm 6'6" and reasonably able to handle myself, but if some 14yr old skinny kid decides to stab one night when my back is turned then i'm brown bread anyway, regardless of size. Point being, you can only protect yourself to a point, you still have to live your life too, and sometimes, no matter what protection you take bad things still happen unfortunately.

So i'm still not sure what your point is tbh.

My point is that no matter what did you say to your systers, nieces, no matter what belt they have, no matter how smart they are and choose friends and places, no matter how "streetwise" they are bad things might happened to them too. They could be in that bus with their close friend. As a tourist. Or perhaps on some party with drug in their drink and so on.
There is no ultimate security.  
I also voted for self defense tech but cruical is:

Education and higher penalties.
Its pricnciple of spanking bat and carrot.

[Sky Scanner]

the L, on 26 January 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

My point is that no matter what did you say to your systers, nieces, no matter what belt they have, no matter how smart they are and choose friends and places, no matter how "streetwise" they are bad things might happened to them too. They could be in that bus with their close friend. As a tourist. Or perhaps on some party with drug in their drink and so on.
There is no ultimate security.  
I also voted for self defense tech but cruical is:

Education and higher penalties.
Its pricnciple of spanking bat and carrot.

Of course there is no ultimate security, no one ever suggested there is. It's just a balance, living your life in a way that makes you happy, against taking some sensible choices about the places you end up and the company you keep, and still bad things can happen.

[the L]

Sky Scanner, on 26 January 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:

Of course there is no ultimate security, no one ever suggested there is. It's just a balance, living your life in a way that makes you happy, against taking some sensible choices about the places you end up and the company you keep, and still bad things can happen.

Thing is that our society is rotting. The world is rotten.

[libstaK]

ouija ouija, on 26 January 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

There is a 'CULTURAL VIEW' of men being sexually masterful and women being coy and seductive.

Justifications and excuses(by the rapist), are buttressed by the CULTURAL VIEW of women as sexual commodities, dehumanised and devoid of autonomy and dignity.

In this sense, the sexual objectification of women must be understood as an important factor contributing to an environment that trivialises, neutralises, and, perhaps, facilitates rape.

Our research, however, based on volunteers from the entire prison population, indicates that some rapists, like deny-ers, viewed and understood their behaviour from a popular cultural perspective. This strongly suggests that CULTURAL PERSPECTIVES, and not an idiosyncratic illness, motivated their behaviour.

Criminal minds always find a means to cast the blame elsewhere.  What gives them license in their minds to carry on with this behaviour is the enabling cultural perspectives they are surrounded by, the notion that "they made me do it" gets treated as reasonable defense if not in courts then by society.  It is not a reasonable defense, it is a tactic to avoid taking responsibility for one's own actions.  Rape, like all crimes are about a lack of self governance and capacity to take responsibility for the way a person thinks toward others and behaves.

It has been said that rapists are motivated into their mindset by being exposed through culture to scantily clad women and sexualization of women.  They are in reality motivated by their own lack of empathy toward others and their willingness to take what they want from others as a result - it is about power and subjugation, the false belief that alpha males or females take what they want when they want it.  The criminal mind is selfish and self serving and is the problem of the criminal themselves not anything else that goes on in society around them.

Cultural perspectives need a paradigm shift where this is crystal clear in the minds of society when dealing with rapists and other criminals.  All these "mitigating" factors that keep entering into the fray are just feeding the notion that the criminal can excuse their behavior and make society responsible for it.  The law firstly and education of the masses secondly needs to discard the notion of "mitigating factors" when considering rape and assaults.

How and if we can avoid being the victims of these types of souls is very much also about how much of our own freedoms we are willing to give up for the sake of feeling safe - how much power are we willing to give them by default of our fear as a society?  If there is a rapist in a society, there will be rape no matter how many walls we try to put up against it.  We need to remove the rapist, period.

Edited by libstaK, 27 January 2013 - 12:27 AM.