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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#3091    Abramelin

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:51 AM

View PostApol, on 26 March 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

This was simply before a name had formed for 'fruits'. Douglas Harper writes:

Fruit (n.) late 12c., from Old French fruit "fruit, fruit eaten as dessert; harvest; virtuous action" (12c.), from Latin fructus "an enjoyment, delight, satisfaction; proceeds, produce, fruit, crops," from frug-, stem of frui "to use, enjoy," from PIE *bhrug- "agricultural produce," also "to enjoy" (see brook (v.)).
http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

Ljudgêrt relates from his homeland Sindh that "by us are berry trees like your linden trees" (168/4-5), which shows that they could use the designation 'berries' for fruit.
There exists, however, a word for 'nuts' in the book - on 167/29-30 we read: "nuts as large as children’s heads". It is obviously derived from nochta, which means 'delights'. The experts have a little more clumsy explanation for the etymology of the word 'nut', though.

Maybe the experts are clumsy explaining the etymology of the word 'nut', but you won't find on any (Dutch or English) online etymology site a word like "nochta" as explanation, and you can't expect they are all blind, lol.

You use the word "crops" as one of the words explaining "fruit". Now look at this quote from the OLB:

Hyr is nv min rêd.
(...)
An tha westsyde fon Pangab, wânâ wi wech kvme aend hwer ik bern ben, thêr blojath aend waxath tha selva frûchta aend nochta as an tha âstsyde.


Dutch:

Hier is nu mijn raad.
(...)
Aan de westzijde van Panjab, waar wij weg komen en waar ik ge-boren ben, daar bloeiden en wasten de zelfde vruchten en noten (?) als aan de oostzijde.

Sandbach:

HERE IS MY COUNSEL.
(...)
On the west of the Punjab where we come from, and where I was born, the same fruits and crops grow as on the east side.


Apparaently they are all guessing.


And this is what you mentioned already:

(From the same chapter:)


By vs werthat nochta fonden lik bern-hâveda sâ grât, thêr sit tsys aend melok in, werthat se ald sâ mâkt man ther ôlja fon, fon tha bastum mâkt maen tâw aend fon tha kernum mâkt maen chelka aend ôr gerâd.

Dutch:
Bij ons worden noten gevonden ge-lijk kinder-hoofden zo groot, daar zit kaas ende melk in, worden zij oud zo maakt men er olie van, van de bast maakt men touw ende van de kernen maakt men kelken ende ander geraad.

Sandbach:
In our country there are nuts as large as a child’s head. They contain cheese and milk. When they are old oil is made from them. Of the husks ropes are made, and of the shells cups and other household utensils are made.

From that quote it's obvious "nochta" can only mean 'nut' (in this case it's a coconut).


#3092    Abramelin

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:05 AM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 25 March 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

This is where i think while the Frisians were in India , they may have taken their religion with them , and it was them that became the Brahmen ,or learned the Krishnan religion from the Brahmen,  if you google the Brahmen you will find that the first Brahmen came from Gouda , (they were actually called the Gouda Brahmen (sounds pretty Dutch to me ) and if becoming a brahman meant you had to attend a university for a few years like Texila ( note similarity to Texel )  then this would be akin to the years it took to become a druid ,

According to Arrian Alexander made a point of going to Texila to meet them ,  and according to Richard Williams Morgan in St Paul , and the early British christian church (as opposed to the Popish Roman Christianity ) said  " when St.Paul said ""i turn henceforth to the Gentiles ( Genus of the Isles  ?? ) he was about to turn to a religion already possessing much more in common than either Judaism or the New Roman Christianity"" does Morgan mean here St.Paul was turning to the Celtic church version of Christianity  , rather than the Roman version ?? and is that why they imprisoned and killed him .

Taliesin ( who Morgan calls the Prince Druid , and Bard ) says " Christ was the word from the beginning, and from the beginning was our teacher, we as a people never lost or forgot his teachings , Christianity became a new thing in Asia , but there was never a time when the Druids of Britain held not his doctrines ".
If the Druids had been created on Christs Doctrines then because they were formed well before Jesus Christ , the druids cant mean Jesus , so they are likely to have got their doctrines from Krishen ,/Krishna , so could they have got these while they were in India

Even the Roman Church has agreed officially that Britain recieved Christianity before Rome ,which is why our churches always said from the start our churches  would not be dominated by the Pope , and because of our Aryan ( note i wonder if this was an Indian Aryan version of Christianity  which became a heresy, but was changed to the Arrian Heresy , to hide the reason )version of Christianity was the reason the Romans had to destroy the Druids , and why the Romans needed to lose so many men conquering the British Version.


Here then you would get a very good reason why the OLB can never be officially acknowledged as not a fake !

"Gouda" may sound Dutch to you, but the oldest name for Gouda was "Golde":
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouda

-

And I know about "Texila"; it's also not just the name, but also that the function of the city was similar to Texland/Texel (administration, jurisdiction).

-

When Friso returned with his people to his ancestral homeland after living for many ages in the far east, he didn't introduce Druidism or something.

-

For the rest of your post, I must admit, you lost me.


#3093    Abramelin

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:11 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 26 March 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

And I know about "Taxila"; it's also not just the name, but also that the function of the city was similar to Texland/Texel (administration, jurisdiction).


An old post of mine:

http://www.unexplain...10#entry4331893

.

Edited by Abramelin, 26 March 2013 - 11:11 AM.


#3094    Apol

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:40 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 26 March 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:


An tha westsyde fon Pangab, wânâ wi wech kvme aend hwer ik bern ben, thêr blojath aend waxath tha selva frûchta aend nochta as an tha âstsyde.
Aan de westzijde van Panjab, waar wij weg komen en waar ik ge-boren ben, daar bloeiden en wasten de zelfde vruchten en noten (?) als aan de oostzijde.
On the west of the Punjab where we come from, and where I was born, the same fruits and crops grow as on the east side.


Here is my translation of that sentence:
On the west side of Punjab, from where we come and where I was born, there the same pleasures and delights flourish and grow as on the east side.


#3095    Abramelin

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:43 AM

Anda bâma aend trêjon waxton frügda ând nochta, thêr nw vrlêren send.
On the trees and trees grew fruits and nuts, which are now lost.

I translated it like I did on purpose for both words, "bâma" and "trêjon", mean 'trees'. Many times 'trêjon' is being translated as (DU) 'heesters' or 'shrubs', but that's mainly - I think - because it should mean something else than 'tree'.

But the plural "trêjon" could also originally have meant oak:

tree (n.)
Old English treo, treow "tree" (also "wood"), from Proto-Germanic *trewan (cf. Old Frisian tre, Old Saxon trio, Old Norse tre, Gothic triu), from PIE *deru- "oak" (cf. Sanskrit dru "tree, wood," daru "wood, log;" Greek drys "oak," doru "spear;" Old Church Slavonic drievo "tree, wood;" Serbian drvo "tree," drva "wood;" Russian drevo "tree, wood;" Czech drva; Polish drwa "wood;" Lithuanian derva "pine wood;" Old Irish daur, Welsh derwen "oak," Albanian drusk "oak").

http://www.etymonlin...owed_in_frame=0

I thought that maybe "bâma" (DU: bomen) stands for fruit carrying trees, and "trêjon" for nut carrying trees, like the oak.

But in Old Frisian the word for oak is "ek"... sigh.

Does any of you have a better idea about why the OLB uses two words for "trees" in that sentence?


#3096    Abramelin

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:44 AM

View PostApol, on 26 March 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

Here is my translation of that sentence:
On the west side of Punjab, from where we come and where I was born, there the same pleasures and delights flourish and grow as on the east side.

Sorry, but that looks silly.

They are talking matter of fact: this is here, overthere is that, we also have this, and so on.


#3097    Apol

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:02 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 26 March 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

By vs werthat nochta fonden lik bern-hâveda sâ grât, thêr sit tsys aend melok in, werthat se ald sâ mâkt man ther ôlja fon, fon tha bastum mâkt maen tâw aend fon tha kernum mâkt maen chelka aend ôr gerâd.

Dutch:
Bij ons worden noten gevonden ge-lijk kinder-hoofden zo groot, daar zit kaas ende melk in, worden zij oud zo maakt men er olie van, van de bast maakt men touw ende van de kernen maakt men kelken ende ander geraad.

Sandbach:
In our country there are nuts as large as a child’s head. They contain cheese and milk. When they are old oil is made from them. Of the husks ropes are made, and of the shells cups and other household utensils are made.

From that quote it's obvious "nochta" can only mean 'nut' (in this case it's a coconut).

Yes, I agree in that.
Frügda and nochta means 'pleasures and delights', and the two sorts of seeds growing on trees are named from this saying.

Edited by Apol, 26 March 2013 - 12:06 PM.


#3098    Abramelin

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:51 PM

View PostApol, on 26 March 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

Yes, I agree in that.
Frügda and nochta means 'pleasures and delights', and the two sorts of seeds growing on trees are named from this saying.

OK, so we agree that "nochta" means 'nuts', and that it may have been derived from a word meaning 'delight ('ge-nochten', 'ge-neugten', and so on).

What we don't agree on is how it is used in some sentences, like in Anda bâma aend trêjon waxton frügda ând nochta, thêr nw vrlêren send.

For me it is clear the writer talks about fruits and nuts that no longer grow in the area because of some climate change.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 26 March 2013 - 01:16 PM.


#3099    Apol

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:35 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 26 March 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

OK, so we agree that "nochta" means 'nuts', and that it may have been derived from a word meaning 'delight ('ge-nochten', 'ge-neugten', and so on).

What we don't agree on is how it is used in some sentences, like in Anda bâma aend trêjon waxton frügda ând nochta, thêr nw vrlêren send.

For me it is clear the writer talks about fruits and nuts that no longer grow in the area because of some climate change.

.

My translation:
On the trees and shrubs grew pleasures and delights which are now lost.

They hadn't any collective word for what grew on threes and shrubs, that's my opinion.

And we don't need to agree. Disagreement is a good thing, because then we can move forward.

Edited by Apol, 26 March 2013 - 01:39 PM.


#3100    Abramelin

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:54 PM

Have you thought about the bâma aend trêjon?


#3101    The Puzzler

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:08 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 26 March 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

Maybe the experts are clumsy explaining the etymology of the word 'nut', but you won't find on any (Dutch or English) online etymology site a word like "nochta" as explanation, and you can't expect they are all blind, lol.

You use the word "crops" as one of the words explaining "fruit". Now look at this quote from the OLB:

Hyr is nv min rêd.
(...)
An tha westsyde fon Pangab, wânâ wi wech kvme aend hwer ik bern ben, thêr blojath aend waxath tha selva frûchta aend nochta as an tha âstsyde.


Dutch:

Hier is nu mijn raad.
(...)
Aan de westzijde van Panjab, waar wij weg komen en waar ik ge-boren ben, daar bloeiden en wasten de zelfde vruchten en noten (?) als aan de oostzijde.

Sandbach:

HERE IS MY COUNSEL.
(...)
On the west of the Punjab where we come from, and where I was born, the same fruits and crops grow as on the east side.


Apparaently they are all guessing.


And this is what you mentioned already:

(From the same chapter:)


By vs werthat nochta fonden lik bern-hâveda sâ grât, thêr sit tsys aend melok in, werthat se ald sâ mâkt man ther ôlja fon, fon tha bastum mâkt maen tâw aend fon tha kernum mâkt maen chelka aend ôr gerâd.

Dutch:
Bij ons worden noten gevonden ge-lijk kinder-hoofden zo groot, daar zit kaas ende melk in, worden zij oud zo maakt men er olie van, van de bast maakt men touw ende van de kernen maakt men kelken ende ander geraad.

Sandbach:
In our country there are nuts as large as a child’s head. They contain cheese and milk. When they are old oil is made from them. Of the husks ropes are made, and of the shells cups and other household utensils are made.

From that quote it's obvious "nochta" can only mean 'nut' (in this case it's a coconut).

It does appear that way.

You also made the observation that nochta goes to nut nowhere in any etymology.

There is another word I'm thinking of that does sound like nochta and reminds me of nuts - that is knock.

Why is a nut so named? How did the word come about?

The word knuckle comes from the same as knock - noka in Norse.

It means, to hit - what? The ground?

For all we know, the word might not be nut (from Latin nux), but noka's - meaning the things that knock (on the ground when they fall) = description of a nut

Ever seen Castaway with Tom Hanks?

Edited by The Puzzler, 26 March 2013 - 03:46 PM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3102    The Puzzler

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:30 PM

Posted Image

Knockers or nuts?

:blush:

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3103    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:34 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 26 March 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

-

For the rest of your post, I must admit, you lost me.


Thats a shame ! i have had 3 messages to say some people liked it , so at least some people got my drift .

The "nuts" of it was .....  The i think the goths , Frisians , Brits , Bretons , Irish were all one people who either took or brought their religion from India ,As per Taliesin they had their christian doctrines when the Druids were formed , centuries before the Roman version of Christianity adopted and twisted Jesus teachings,

St.Paul and the Apostles , Jesus' Disciples had seen according to Morgan that the Keltic/Druid religion was closest to Jesus' teachings , and had started moving away from the Romans , and started preaching in the centre of the Druid faith , which was at the time in Britain........The Romans did not want this , they wanted Jesus' allied with a roman/papal version , So the Apostles Peter and Paul were executed , the Druids were destroyed , King Caradoc (caratacus ) was taken with his family and kept in Rome in for 7 years .....While they sent Augustine among others to evangelize the Roman version , which being the power they were at the time, they mostly achieved .

So what we got is a Romanised version of Christianity.....Which left to its own devices , could probably have become much more of a pagan, Druidic ,Celtic Christian and maybe  Magian religion which as morgan says was more common with what Jesus was preaching.




In Hindi Sasana is the name of a teaching for a  way of life .for instance you would follow the Buddha Sasana , which was the teachings of Buddha (but there was not an overall God , just teachings of a way to lead your life) This teaching can change with the times and customs , and is supposed to be forever being assesed for suitability for the best life of Dhama.........Sasana reminds me of Sassan (Saxon)   To Hindu's when any two people want to get married , the most important thing the parents want to know is the others Sasana , and their Gotra .

In  Hindu Gotra , is the name of your Clan, your ancestry in an unbroken line from a common ancestor .all the Brahmins , claim to be descended from one of 7 of the first teachers , Gautama (Gauda-ma ) Bharadvaja (Bharat as in Mahabarata - Higgins thinks maybe were Britons )  , Visva-Mitra,( Mithra ? )  Jamadagni ( Agni the fire God ) Vasistha , Kasyapa , Atri , these are the 7 Saptarishi , and they are called GotraKarins (chosen Ancestors ? ).......Gotra reminds me of the Goths , Clans
Another Hindu word for Origins, family , ancestors, Clan is Gent ,( you also have Ghent) the Romans used the word originally as nomem Gentilicium ( original ancestor name ) shortened it to Gentes , and shortened it again to Gens , The oldest Roman Patrician families allegedly trace their Gens back to the Trojan Wars .

Gauda in India was founded by a Bengali King , Sasanka it reached from Bengal to Kashmir in the Himmel-laias ( Heaven Mtns ) Gau = Cow , da = land ,( the Frisians burnt all the scrubland killing all the small rodents , and snakes ......to produce grazing lands for Gau's ?.)....Sasanka's Kingdom produced the Pala Empire , and Pala means Protector in Hindi, the Palas remind me of the Pallas Athena , the Frisians who went to found Athens as friends , not conquerors.
According to Wiki.."History of Bengal " the name came from the Bangla ( B- Angles ?) who settled the area around 1000 BC , they were not vedic Aryans , but are thought to have spoken an Austro-asiatic dialect  , which among others the Pulinda people who live there still speak today

The original Gaudian Brahmins    were calle Adi( Adi means first , original , from creation )  Brahmins , they were called Adi-Gauda Brahmins , Adi-Gau reminds me of Attica , where Jon and Minerva went .


#3104    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:13 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 26 March 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

Anda bâma aend trêjon waxton frügda ând nochta, thêr nw vrlêren send.
On the trees and trees grew fruits and nuts, which are now lost.

I translated it like I did on purpose for both words, "bâma" and "trêjon", mean 'trees'. Many times 'trêjon' is being translated as (DU) 'heesters' or 'shrubs', but that's mainly - I think - because it should mean something else than 'tree'.

But the plural "trêjon" could also originally have meant oak:

tree (n.)
Old English treo, treow "tree" (also "wood"), from Proto-Germanic *trewan (cf. Old Frisian tre, Old Saxon trio, Old Norse tre, Gothic triu), from PIE *deru- "oak" (cf. Sanskrit dru "tree, wood," daru "wood, log;" Greek drys "oak," doru "spear;" Old Church Slavonic drievo "tree, wood;" Serbian drvo "tree," drva "wood;" Russian drevo "tree, wood;" Czech drva; Polish drwa "wood;" Lithuanian derva "pine wood;" Old Irish daur, Welsh derwen "oak," Albanian drusk "oak").

http://www.etymonlin...owed_in_frame=0

I thought that maybe "bâma" (DU: bomen) stands for fruit carrying trees, and "trêjon" for nut carrying trees, like the oak.

But in Old Frisian the word for oak is "ek"... sigh.

Does any of you have a better idea about why the OLB uses two words for "trees" in that sentence?

Could it be it does not mean a specific tree , but one means coppice , or grove , and the other means woods , or forest  or orchard or plantation


#3105    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:27 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 26 March 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

OK, so we agree that "nochta" means 'nuts', and that it may have been derived from a word meaning 'delight ('ge-nochten', 'ge-neugten', and so on).

What we don't agree on is how it is used in some sentences, like in Anda bâma aend trêjon waxton frügda ând nochta, thêr nw vrlêren send.

For me it is clear the writer talks about fruits and nuts that no longer grow in the area because of some climate change.

.

In english we have a saying " to wax lyrical " or be waxing lyrical about something , and it means to be profuse , come out in speech with an abundance of words about things that you like ,or admire ,so the lyrical would be the speech , and wax, waxing , waxton would be the abundance part





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