138 replies to this topic

[Jackofalltrades]

SpiritWriter, on 02 October 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

It seems that the name Jesus  stirs up alot of controversy and "feelings",

It is only due to people and organised cult's religion's, and what they teach,  that the name Jesus stir's up so much "controversy and feeling's"

SpiritWriter, on 02 October 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

what is your biggest grief with religion

All the Hypocrisy...

All the hatred they teach...

All the Idolatry they practice... kneeling in front of such thing's as the cross, or any other religious idol/icon (even though some do not acknowledge or believe they do such a thing)

All the Evil thing's they do... (child molestation etc etc etc)

The way they teach that You have to go to a building to worship God... Would not God be everywhere ? and not just in a building that was built by man... a true church of God is (in my opinion) the people that believe or a group of people that believe and NOT a building

The way they teach and practice thing's like praying in public, confessing sin's to a priest pastor vicar etc (which as far as I am aware goes against what is written in the Bible and the word of God)

There is possibly other's that I have not mentioned but those above are the main one's

[pbarosso]

Jackofalltrades, on 12 October 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

It is only due to people and organised cult's religion's, and what they teach,  that the name Jesus stir's up so much "controversy and feeling's"




All the Hypocrisy...

hypocracy is a world wide phenomonem not relagated to religion. this also depends on the person....so one or two people were hypocrits...you must hate EVERYONE then.

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All the hatred they teach...

show me where christianity teaches hatred.

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All the Idolatry they practice... kneeling in front of such thing's as the cross, or any other religious idol/icon (even though some do not acknowledge or believe they do such a thing)

idolatry is worshiping something inaminate as if IT is a god. no christians worship this way. they show reverance towards things. we genflect before the alter because the little cubby up there houses the body of christ...not the crucifix.

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All the Evil thing's they do... (child molestation etc etc etc)

yeah because nobody but priests, football coaches, and ministers molest kids

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The way they teach that You have to go to a building to worship God... Would not God be everywhere ? and not just in a building that was built by man... a true church of God is (in my opinion) the people that believe or a group of people that believe and NOT a building

no one says you have to go to a building to worship God except the mormon kids that come by my house, God IS everywhere, the true church is the people....you'd make a good catholic cuz this is what we teach.........BUT, since a gathering of people to worship is considered "church" it makes sense to go to where the people gather right? and i also agree that by having huge buildings to worship creates a need for money to upkeep that building. i am a catholic that wants to get rid of the big churches and worship for free in some field or open place.

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The way they teach and practice thing's like praying in public, confessing sin's to a priest pastor vicar etc (which as far as I am aware goes against what is written in the Bible and the word of God)

i agree that confession is outdated, but there is nothing wrong with praying in public.

[Beckys_Mom]

pbarosso, on 12 October 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

i agree that confession is outdated, but there is nothing wrong with praying in public.

Jesus would most certainly disagree with you  and add that anyone  who prays in public to be seen are nothing but hypocrites... Pray in private and the father will reward you  ( Sermon On The Mount )

[pbarosso]

Beckys_Mom, on 12 October 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

So a person who is very ill and would go mad at hearing the name Jesus is just possessed ...do you actually believe that?

And what is wrong with intolerance?  Are you the most tolerant person out there? ...Does it ever enter your head that someone who  may show a lot of anger  and hears the name Jesus.. may have went through hell over religion and it can set them off?  No?

i believe that it is possession in some cases from what i have read. the demons make the person ill upon speaking the name of Jesus....not all cases but where they have such a hate for something so good, you can see the evil in their eyes. I have seen it once and i never want to see it again.

i am pretty tolerant. i have read these forums for years and i have only posted maybe 800 times. people are responsible for their own salvation, so let them be responsible. i defend christianity when i can, or when i have the time to read the christian bashing threads on this site. because as i have told you before BM, you and some others lie in wait or set up the hapless christian on this site. what your agendas are I dont know. but it doesnt sound righteous.(i am no saint either)

and sure someone may have gone through hell over something, but its just religion and not faith. Jesus and God did not do it to the person, so i expect people to have a little more depth to see it is just a man doing the things that hurt them and not God.

besides, even non religious people know that it is hurtfull to harbor hate for anything.

[pbarosso]

Beckys_Mom, on 12 October 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

Jesus would most certainly disagree with you  and add that anyone  who prays in public to be seen are nothing but hypocrites... Pray in private and the father will reward you  ( Sermon On The Mount )

well, because at that time there those that thought that if they pretended to be pious they would be respected. i dont think that you can say what jesus would say, because you are not him. when someone says "pray in public" i envision a youth group praying before they bowl or have fun. or the fact that i may pray before i eat at taco bell. if you are praying legitimately then there is nothing wroing with it. how could there be?

jesus may be saying that to have a consistent relationship with God we must set aside time to pray to him when we are alone and can focus (meditate). but there are obvious times when praying in public is necessary. like during the aftermath of 911 etc.

must i always point these little common sense things out? or perhaps you know this and are setting me up like you do other christians.

[Beckys_Mom]

pbarosso, on 12 October 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

i believe that it is possession in some cases from what i have read. the demons make the person ill upon speaking the name of Jesus....not all cases but where they have such a hate for something so good, you can see the evil in their eyes. I have seen it once and i never want to see it again.

It is your belief so be it.. To speak on my own behalf - If I felt I was seeing  anything paranormal or supernatural like that, I would take myself off to a doctor  and I am not being funny..it would worry me

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when i can, or when i have the time to read the christian bashing threads on this site.

I never narrow my view  down to just looking at one side.. I see both sides getting at each other..

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because as i have told you before BM, you and some others lie in wait or set up the hapless christian on this site. what your agendas are I dont know. but it doesnt sound righteous.(i am no saint either)   

Your opinion of me is not relevant and I hold no interest ...  If you were on here more often, you would see more and realise it is not as bad as you complain... Further more, many Christians on here are very good at defending their own faith,, and  they get along with many of us.. I have seen both sides  say the same things about each other, just like I have seen both sides get along well..  I don't want to hear about  the odd once in a blue moon  posts you spot and  dislike....... I want to hear your opinions on the points raised and put across ..If you wish  ( and I mean IF  )  to banter on about members bashing this and that, I will gladly skip over it and move on to more interesting posts...

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   Jesus and God did not do it to the person, so i expect people to have a little more depth to see it is just a man doing the things that hurt them and not God.

I would not claim they did either..  But many of the followers who like to do things their way differ, and so many have made peoples lives hell over religion . and it is not just Christianity..( there is a lot worse out there  ) ..   Jesus himself would show a lot more understanding of those that you describe more so than a number of his followers ever could

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  besides, even non religious people know that it is hurtfull to harbor hate for anything.   

You say - For anything, so that covers a lot and not just religion, so to that I would say - Yes hate for many things is wrong   BUT not all ......Not just for the non religious, but for the religious...  We humans will hold hate for many things in life, and it is part of human nature.. We all hate something ...

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 13 October 2012 - 12:47 AM.

[Beckys_Mom]

pbarosso, on 12 October 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

well, because at that time there those that thought that if they pretended to be pious they would be respected.(SNIP)

What I believe Jesus was talking about, is those who stand on street corners praying and preaching  to be seen  ( as he describes in the sermon on the mount ) to anyone passing by..   And those who pray in churches and temples etc... He favoured  praying in private

There is a difference between saying private prayers before you eat out  OR at some remembrance service ..those  are still private prayers ...

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or perhaps you know this and are setting me up like you do other christians.

Yes because you are just so important to me.. Please  stick around and give me more time to set you up some more..  Grab the paranoia by the horns and yell ( like Charlie Sheen )   I  AM WINNING!!!!

Jokes aside - Seriously..let go of the paranoia.. If you actually listened to what I am discussing  in full, you will see I am not interested in setting you up..    My posts in this thread are in no way looking to set anyone up, If I wanted to bore myself stupid, I would ask my hubby about his day of satellite installations, and get to pee my pants with sheer excitement when he goes on about new TV aerials !!

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 13 October 2012 - 12:49 AM.

[pbarosso]

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Your views about this forum are exaggerated, because this forum is moderated well enough.. There are a lot worse elsewhere..

maybe, i dont visit other forums, i like the weird /crypto/science news here...i dont have alot of time. but this one does have a pattern....where one atheist or another (used to be TIGGS alot if i remember) poses a question to lure in unsuspecting christians(mostly) and then try to upset their world. why i wonder ? is that not prosetilyzing in some form or another? perhaps its a subconscious effort on the OPers time to come to Jesus, IDK.

[Sherapy]

pbarosso, on 13 October 2012 - 12:36 AM, said:

maybe, i dont visit other forums, i like the weird /crypto/science news here...i dont have alot of time. but this one does have a pattern....where one atheist or another (used to be TIGGS alot if i remember) poses a question to lure in unsuspecting christians(mostly) and then try to upset their world. why i wonder ? is that not prosetilyzing in some form or another? perhaps its a subconscious effort on the OPers time to come to Jesus, IDK.

I think sometimes people are just interested in learning about other peoples perspectives. I even think an Atheist as myself and a Christan(if that is your path/in fact no matter your path) could exchange ideas and grow in understanding about each other. Don't you?

Edited by Sherapy, 13 October 2012 - 12:49 AM.

[pbarosso]

Sherapy, on 13 October 2012 - 12:47 AM, said:

I think sometimes people are just interested in learning about other peoples perspectives. I even think an Atheist as myself and a Christan(if that is your path/in fact no matter your path) could exchange ideas and grow in understanding about each other. Don't you?

yes. but not the way its commonly conducted here.

[Orcseeker]

SpiritWriter, on 02 October 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

It seems that the name Jesus  stirs up alot of controversy and "feelings",

what are those feelings?

why is it upsetting?

what is your biggest grief with religion

abrahamic God

Jesus - what does this name do to you on the inside.

how does your body respond to these words:

Holy

Jesus

Holy Ghost

Believer

Born Again

Baptism

Baptism of the Fire

Laying of the Hands

exorcising demons

I have only heard of this man and his influence simply because I have been told so. Other than that, I have no other reason to believe in him at all. I feel that people should be able to think for themselves and not have things forced upon them, especially while they are easily influenced (being converted as a child which is a form of child abuse I believe).

It is upsetting because of the amount of war, hatred, fear, segregation and despair caused by it all. I don't think anyone can argue the benefits that outweigh these which have dragged on to this day.

The biggest grief would probably be as stated before the unthinking of people. Then, in turn it being used to control them in a negative way by those "closer to God".

Jesus is nothing but a name to me.

Those words are mostly shrouded with ignorance and I find it a bit disappointing to read some of them.

Other than that, my life is quite disconnected from religion, I experience it more on these forums than I do in my life. Honestly, I apologises
if I offend anyone. But when I do encounter it in my life, it just feels backward. Follow a God that you have found yourself to me is absolutely fine! But follow one who was created by someone else... It just leads back to my greatest grief.

Edited by Orcseeker, 13 October 2012 - 02:39 AM.

[Jackofalltrades]

pbarosso, on 12 October 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

hypocracy is a world wide phenomonem not relagated to religion. this also depends on the person....so one or two people were hypocrits...you must hate EVERYONE then.

Since when did I state that I hate ANYONE ???  the world is full of hypocrites I agree but this topic is nothing to do with the whole world it is just asking a question about religion,  and I quote " what is your biggest grief with religion "


Churche's are full of hypocrisy

Definition of hypocrisy in the link below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy

pbarosso, on 12 October 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

show me where christianity teaches hatred.

Despite the Bible’s message of love, compassion, and respect, they teach hatred, to hate various people or group's of people that they do not see as worthy of going to Heaven or being in the same place that they see themselve's in..... who are they to decide who goes to Heaven or who is worthy of being in the same place that they are in ?  Would it not be God that has that say and NO ONE else ???

Matthew 7:1
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
2 For in the same way as you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

pbarosso, on 12 October 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

idolatry is worshiping something inaminate as if IT is a god. no christians worship this way. they show reverance towards things. we genflect before the alter because the little cubby up there houses the body of christ...not the crucifix.

“From the very earliest days of the church there has been a tradition whereby images of our Lord, His holy mother, and of the saints are displayed in churches for the veneration of the faithful…this practice of placing sacred images in churches so that they can be venerated by the faithful is to be maintained. (Vatican II)"

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Veneration

In Ex.20:4-5 God forbids anyone who follows Him to make images for use in their worship. Within this context they are also not to bow down to them or do any reverence to them. The Hebrew word for worship is to kiss toward or bow down.

Ex.20:4-5
⁴ “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. ⁵ You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me"

Catholic's and Christian's often forget those passage's in the Bible.....

pbarosso, on 12 October 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

yeah because nobody but priests, football coaches, and ministers molest kids

As I stated previously the question I was answering was  " what is your biggest grief with religion ", where in that question does it state anything to do with football etc ?

There may be other people that molest children, I am not disputing that fact...

pbarosso, on 12 October 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

no one says you have to go to a building to worship God except the mormon kids that come by my house, God IS everywhere, the true church is the people....you'd make a good catholic cuz this is what we teach.........BUT, since a gathering of people to worship is considered "church" it makes sense to go to where the people gather right? and i also agree that by having huge buildings to worship creates a need for money to upkeep that building. i am a catholic that wants to get rid of the big churches and worship for free in some field or open place.

With the exception of being a Catholic ( I am not Catholic or any other denomination, I have my own belief's) I agree with the part's that I have bolded out

I believe that is the way Jesus meant it to be, worshipping in an open field like he did himself, in the Sermon On The Mount...

Or even if it was in a building that worship take's place, why is it necessary to decorate the building/s like the churche's do ? full of idol's etc etc etc

While some of those building's are beautiful looking, I doubt that they fit the purpose that they was supposedly built for, if anything they detract from the purpose of worship

pbarosso, on 12 October 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

i agree that confession is outdated, but there is nothing wrong with praying in public.

What Beckys_Mom stated above is relevent and true "Jesus would most certainly disagree with you and add that anyone who prays in public to be seen are nothing but hypocrites... Pray in private and the father will reward you ( Sermon On The Mount )"

[pbarosso]

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Despite the Bible’s message of love, compassion, and respect, they teach hatred, to hate various people or group's of people that they do not see as worthy of going to Heaven or being in the same place that they see themselve's in..... who are they to decide who goes to Heaven or who is worthy of being in the same place that they are in ? Would it not be God that has that say and NO ONE else ???

Matthew 7:1
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
2 For in the same way as you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

they most certainly do not teach us to hate people or various groups that are not worthy. no christian will tell you it is THEY who decide who goes to heaven.what fringe group of christians have you been hangin out with.

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“From the very earliest days of the church there has been a tradition whereby images of our Lord, His holy mother, and of the saints are displayed in churches for the veneration of the faithful…this practice of placing sacred images in churches so that they can be venerated by the faithful is to be maintained. (Vatican II)"

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Veneration

In Ex.20:4-5 God forbids anyone who follows Him to make images for use in their worship. Within this context they are also not to bow down to them or do any reverence to them. The Hebrew word for worship is to kiss toward or bow down.

Ex.20:4-5
⁴ “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. ⁵ You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me"

Catholic's and Christian's often forget those passage's in the Bible.....

no one worships them or bows down to them in the context of those days. by context i mean, in those days rulers were gods and to bow to them meant worship or submittal to their wills. no one bows to a statue or painting in the church...not TO the statue or the painting. it is the lord they bow to who exists in their minds and all around , such as the eurcharist in the sacrarium it is literally the body of christ.

to venerate is to revere. sure the definition includes the word worship, but its honestly not done in the church. Noone worships a statue or painting. the belief is that it causes you to think about the image and the person it represents THats all.

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With the exception of being a Catholic ( I am not Catholic or any other denomination, I have my own belief's) I agree with the part's that I have bolded out

I believe that is the way Jesus meant it to be, worshipping in an open field like he did himself, in the Sermon On The Mount...

Or even if it was in a building that worship take's place, why is it necessary to decorate the building/s like the churche's do ? full of idol's etc etc etc

While some of those building's are beautiful looking, I doubt that they fit the purpose that they was supposedly built for, if anything they detract from the purpose of worship

so we basically agree. there are many catholics who feel this way. but i should point out that most people are sheep and strict follwers. those of us who are leaders have a hard time convincing the flock of making such drastic changes. the church comes from the dark ages of europe as a governmental institution and has had a hard time letting go of that power. but, it can change and IS.

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What Beckys_Mom stated above is relevent and true "Jesus would most certainly disagree with you and add that anyone who prays in public to be seen are nothing but hypocrites... Pray in private and the father will reward you ( Sermon On The Mount )"

well in a certain context sure she is, but the times Jesus was talking about the pharisees and sadusees and holy men that were corrupt. to pray for exihibition is what JEsus was talking about, it is quite possible to pray in public and be sincere.

[taniwha]

"  Jesus is just all right with me,
   Jesus is just all right, OOh yeah,
   Jesus is just all right with me,
   Jesus is just all right....
   hhhhO Yeahhh !!!....."    Doobie Brothers

   I recommend this song if you need uplifting in Jesus name.....

[spud the mackem]

There is a million Jesus's ,Mario's, Maria's in South American Countries,whats everyone getting all in a stoked up about ?.Its equal to any other name.