No, I don't hear about refugee camps blowing up in Ceuta or Melilla, but I do hear about 4,000 refugees dead because of Spanish policy, and about 6,000 Spanish soldiers stationed in those cities (for example - Spain sent only 1,300 soldiers to Iraq, and this caused a regime changed in Spain).
For example, look at this quote from the wiki-article about the "Ceuta barrier":
"Construction of the £200 million razor-wire barrier was financed by the European Union.
Morocco has objected to the construction of the barrier, as it considers Ceuta to be occupied Moroccan land. Critics have also implicated the barrier in the drowning deaths of at least 4,000 people who have died trying to cross the straits of Gibraltar to enter Spain.".
As I said - 4,000 refugees are dead becuase of the fence built with EU tax money.
Anyhow - I was talking about the actually building of seperation fences, which the EU seem to attack Israel over it. The Israeli fence doesn't kill Palestinians. So the issue here is not the death of palestinian terrorists, but the building of walls. The EU goes and attack Israel on a security fence which is built to save Israeli lives against armed Palestinian terrorists.
From where I stand, the EU protest against the security fence is like saying "we rather see Palestinians getting on time to work, than see Israelis not exploding in busses and streets".
It is either EU politicians are extremely stupid, and don't understand the purpose of the security fence, or that they care more for Palestinians having a job than Israelis living.
And in top of all this - the EU built a seperation wall on an occupied Moroccan land, not to defend itself from terrorists, but to keep immigrants from working in it's territory. Can't you see the hypocricy?!
As to youre alligations of me being paranoid - you can sing it all day, but you have no proof of it (and please read the followings before responding only to this sentence...).
Jews have been persecuted in Europe for the last 2,000.
Only 60 years ago, Europe (except for the UK and Denmark) genocided it's Jewish population, so we left Europe to our original homeland.
Now, Europe is hurting Israel politically, by pulling out sanctions, funding weapons of mass Jihad against Israelis, etc.
HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF YOU WERE AN ISRAELI?
My mother's family originally came from Poland. Then the Poles banished them (along with the rest of it's Jewish population) to Russian territory. Then the Russians did pogroms in it's Jews, causing many of them to flee Russia. Then my mother's family had to go to Moldovia. Then, because of pogroms in the beginning of the 20th century, they had to go to Bucharest (Romania). Then the Nazis came and together with the local Romanian population, 400,000 Romanian Jews were liquified in Aushwitz. My grandfather, which was an athlete, was sent to a labout camp in Transtertaria (Ukraine), were he suffered from inflammation in his legs to the rest of his life. My grandmother's family was rounded up and sent to Aushwitz. Then, after the Nazis went, they were mistreated by the Communist regime in Romania, and even though my grandfather was a leading party member, he was banished out of Romania, his property stolen by the government, and his citizenship taken.
And now the EU stabs Israel in the back by politically harming us and funding Palestinian terrorism. (EUFUNDING.ORG) .
You can call it paranoia as long as you want - but you'll have to refute my claims.
Untill you do that, remember that anytime a suicide bomber explode in a buss killing many children, he was funded by youre tax money.
No, what I am saying is that Jews from Europe came here with European culture ,together with their Jewish culture.
For example, would you consider a british Jew to have only British culture, or also a Jewish culture?
I would consider him having both, just as you have both Scottish culture and British culture.
Now imagine that there is a russian Jew exactly like that british Jew, which has both Russian culture and Jewish culture.
Now imagine that they both immigrate to Israel. And they get marry. Their child will be culturally influenced by Russian and British culture. Most likley he will speak both english and russia (and ofcourse Hebrew) as it's native tounge.
He will read english literature and russian literature while he is growing.
So the result is that he will have a mixed culture, uniting both the Russian and the British culture, alongside his 3,300 years' old Jewish culture.
Best joke I've heared today!
Last time I checked, Jews were reading, writting, building temples, writting poetry and fighting with something else but rocks and stones already 3,300 years ago.
Human civilization started in the middle-east, not in Europe.
(ps - no, I'm not petronising here, but just responded the same way you did).
First of all, both Israel and Turkey are in Asia (Israel most certainly isn't part of Africa).
And the EU doesn't end in Greece - it includes Cyprus, which is in Asia (although it is an Island, it is more to the east than Turkey, and is considered Asia).
The reason Cyprus can be considered part of Europe though, is that civilizationally (western civilization), culturally and linguistically it is closer to Europe.
Unless you think Israel is closer to Arab civilization than European and western one, I don't see how Cyprus is closer to Europe than Israel is.
Even Malta, which it's official language is Maltese - a North African Arabic dialect (or in short - arabic with heavy italian influence), a semitic language, is now part of Europe.
Anyway, youre view on the subject of Israel and the EU clear.
You are willing to consider Israel joinning the EU as long as it has peace.
Now, can we please pass the question to another member (or continue our disscusion over the PM)?
Edited by Erikl, 20 September 2004 - 01:18 PM.