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Citizen Hearing on Disclosure


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#166    psyche101

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 09:43 AM

View PostChrlzs, on 16 June 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Which policies are those?  Do you think NASA's asset base would be increased or lessened if there were known aliens?  I suspect you might agree with me that it would be vastly greater than the paltry, strangled organisation that it has become with all the cutbacks over the years..  And wouldn't there be a few real whistleblowers?

Indeed, has it occurred to the dear reader that back in the 40s/50s/60s, even perhaps up to the 80s, various defence agencies actually *used* ufo reports to help bolster their cases for additional funding.   Why did it slow/stop in the 80's and 90's onwards?  I'm glad you asked.  It stopped because the technology was advanced enough to identify the vast majority of sightings, and given the nature of modern avionics/logging/radar, etc pilots could no longer easily claim that their crazy maneuvers/use of weapons was because they were dodgin' a Yoofoe.

Is your best evidence of these coverup policies that anecdotal third-hand report about someone who, gee, might have actually been an oddball humorist and story teller..?  Hardly any wonder that:
- if they did have some clandestine stuff, he would be excluded
- if they didn't, that he would still tell anyone who would listen that they did, him bein' a story teller and all..

Either way, it seems to me that until 'disclosure' or until actual evidence of an important coverup on this topic actually comes forth, speculating about it sounds an awful lot to me like the same old tinfoil argument - well of course there is no evidence of chemtrails - the ebil gubmint overlords cover it all up.  So it has to exist!!!

No matter that the whole idea of chemtrails/{insert favorite topic here) is unsupported drivel.   And yes, I'm suggesting the analogy can be applied to at least some extent to ufos=aliens and others...


Absolutely stirling post my friend. Well said, I really like your posting style, it puts facts together in a most readable and interesting fashion. Not seen enough of you mate.

We will have to try that Treetops thing again mate. Short days now though, sucks with the sun being gone at 5.  Only a couple more weeks and we back on the run into summer as the days get longer.

I am sure it wont affect service at the Tavern though :D Actually, I suppose it might.......... LOL

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#167    bee

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:38 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 17 June 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Go ahead and prove it is not Admiral WIlson.


easy.....


Edgar Mitchell's actual words....

http://blog.blogtalk...ecord-straight/

Quote

LB: So the interview has been a little misquoted. But you actually have information about the Roswell incident?
EM: Yes and my information comes from what I call “the old timers,” because I grew up in the Roswell area and when I went to the moon, some of the old timers from that period, some locals, and others military and intelligence people, who were under rather severe oaths to not reveal any of this and kind of wanted to get their conscience clear and off their chests before they passed on, selected me and said, independently – this wasn’t a group effort – independently that maybe I might be a safe person to tell their story to. And all of them confirmed, and what I’m saying is they confirmed the Roswell incident was a real incident and they in some way had some part in it that they wanted to talk about.

note...'some of the old timers from THAT PERIOD, some locals AND OTHERS MILITARY AND INTELLIGENCE PEOPLE, who were under

rather severe oaths......'



http://en.wikipedia....homas_R._Wilson


Quote

Thomas Ray Wilson was born on March 4, 1946 in Columbus, Ohio, and raised in the small community of Groveport, Ohio.


wrong age...wrong place




psyche....you are wrong..... :hmm:

the master of spin has failed.... :D



and your consolation prize is a youtube song....





:innocent:

:lol:



.

Edited by bee, 17 June 2013 - 10:47 AM.


#168    quillius

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:58 AM

Admiral Wilson never spoke to Edgar directly after the meeting they had. He apprently spoke to Greer who then spoke to the commander Weir (spelling?) that was also there, he then in turn called Edgar and said Admiral Wilson said its all true.
---------------------------------------------------
H+: Can you give us a little better idea about who these people were?

EM: Well, for instance, one was the undertaker who was asked to provide coffins for the small bodies.  Another was one of the people who were working traffic control out near the site when they decided to fence it off.  According to these people, they had all been shushed immediately following the incident.  They were told by the Air Force not to talk about it.  In many cases… told so with some kind of severe threat attached.

One of the people who talked to me in particular was a major who was on the base at the same time as Major Jesse Marcel, the first person on the site of the Roswell crash.  He confirmed to me that… yes, at the time, it was a real incident.  I’ve also met Jesse’s son in recent years, Jesse Marcel Jr.  He explains how his father brought home some of the pieces from the crash to show him and his mother before taking them to the base.


who was the Major that spoke to Edgar? I would think that this is one of the 'intellgence/military people he was talking about.

http://hplusmagazine...edgar-mitchell/

the undertaker is Glenn Dennis apparently. Not sure hwo the air traffic control person was.

edgar:
He recruited me and another naval commander, Will Miller, who also lives here in Florida, to come to a conference in Washington DC.  There, we spoke and explained our stories and said that we believed this was real.  The three of us, with both Naval officers, were able to get to the Pentagon and get a meeting with the Chairman of the Intelligence Committee of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.  We told our respective stories of what we knew about UFOs and the cover-up.  “This is what we know. Will you confirm anything for us?”  And the Admiral said, “I don’t know about this, but I should know, and I will find out and get back to you.”  Well, he never got back to me personally. But he did get back to Dr. Greer, and essentially said, “Yes.  What you’re saying is true.  I know where the black budget money is dispersed from within the Pentagon.”
Greer told Commander Miller, who called me and said, “Yes, Greer heard from the admiral, and he’s confirmed that there was an office in the Pentagon funding all of this.”  Subsequently, another contact of mine, who must also remain nameless because he’s on classified programs, encountered the Admiral in Las Vegas, where he had been looking for and trying to get into the so-called “strategic access program” around the UFO incident and had been denied.

Edited by quillius, 17 June 2013 - 11:02 AM.


#169    conspiracy buff

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:08 PM

This "disclosure project" may be yet another disinformation campaign.  We don't even know 100% that these are extraterrestrials, demons, or something like interdimensional beings.  If one believes that the Illuminati controls the information, which I believe they do, this could be yet another effort to control.  Meaning those in power are in charge of this whole disclosure movement.  It could very well be that we are being conditioned to believe the alien threat to further the cause of these elite.  Whether you believe in the NWO, Illuminati, Freemasons, or any other group is irrelevant in this case though.  Simply because there is an active cover up going on in reguards to this whole field of UFOs and what they represent, why they are here, and specifics of their agenda.  I'd be surprised if this disclosure movement yields anything of substance.

There is a grain of truth in every conspiracy known to man, you just have to be intelligent enough to find it.

#170    ChrLzs

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:27 AM

So to sum up...

It's all a double bluff, no wait, a triple bluff, no a quadruple bluff..  I mean, those in power are so .. you know, powerful that they can cover everything up, and all the gubmints of every nation have agreed on this, and no amateurs/whistleblowers have ever been able to get any evidence to somewhere uncontrolled by the ebil overlords, and .. and.. all that means .... there must be evidence!  Its non-existence proves it!!

Yes, everything supports the hypothesis when you are a conspiracy believer!  It's win, win, win, win all the way to tinfoil heaven when you believe in all powerful overlords.  It's a wonder this forum exists.. oh wait, of course everyone here is being paid to give these views, I forgot.

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#171    Spacenut56

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 02:08 PM

View Postconspiracy buff, on 17 June 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

This "disclosure project" may be yet another disinformation campaign.  We don't even know 100% that these are extraterrestrials, demons, or something like interdimensional beings.  If one believes that the Illuminati controls the information, which I believe they do, this could be yet another effort to control.  Meaning those in power are in charge of this whole disclosure movement.  It could very well be that we are being conditioned to believe the alien threat to further the cause of these elite.  Whether you believe in the NWO, Illuminati, Freemasons, or any other group is irrelevant in this case though.  Simply because there is an active cover up going on in reguards to this whole field of UFOs and what they represent, why they are here, and specifics of their agenda.  I'd be surprised if this disclosure movement yields anything of substance.

HEAR HEAR!


#172    Hazzard

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:11 PM

Funny how when (in the beginning) somethng is presented as evidence of ET its REAL,... But when disected and lost credibillity it changes to a desinformation campagne.

Like Chrlzs said,... the CT and true believers cant loose.

But then again, if the evidence was any good to start with this type of tactic wouldnt be needed in the first place.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#173    psyche101

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:52 PM

View Postbee, on 17 June 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

easy.....


Edgar Mitchell's actual words....

http://blog.blogtalk...ecord-straight/


note...'some of the old timers from THAT PERIOD, some locals AND OTHERS MILITARY AND INTELLIGENCE PEOPLE, who were under

rather severe oaths......'



http://en.wikipedia....homas_R._Wilson





wrong age...wrong place




psyche....you are wrong..... :hmm:

the master of spin has failed.... :D



and your consolation prize is a youtube song....


:innocent:

:lol:



.





Um Bee, do you know what the word "Other" means? I should expect so, but you do not seem to have grasped it. You did not prove that Admiral WIlson is not the contact Edgar is alluding to in his broad description, Edgar says "SOME OF THE OLD TIMERS FROM THAT PERIOD, (*Notice the comma Ms Schoolteacher) some locals AND OTHERS MILITARY AND INTELLIGENCE PEOPLE, - as for the Intelligence remark, although I pointed you at the thread, and directly at the answer, you still seem to have somehow missed it! Personally I would have let you continue to flounder proving you did not bother with the link, but I see Quillius was kind enough to spell it out for you and place the info right under your nose.




Edited by psyche101, 18 June 2013 - 11:54 PM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#174    Scudbuster

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:31 AM

Excellent points Bee - and I'll gladly believe someone like an Edgar Mitchell.  With all his connections and personal observations over the years, his personal credibility factor vs the naysayers and their usual dribble - "ah no way, ya gotta prove this, ya gotta prove that" kinda crap - is off the scale.

Plus, I don't think any visitors are likely to leave easy to find calling cards around, and if they did, well you can sure as hell bet the gov't boys are uber eager to scoop those items up for purposes of containment, analysis, and if deemed valuable from a defense standpoint or technology advancement - replication of.


#175    DBunker

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:40 AM

View PostScudbuster, on 19 June 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

Excellent points Bee - and I'll gladly believe someone like an Edgar Mitchell.  With all his connections and personal observations over the years, his personal credibility factor vs the naysayers and their usual dribble - "ah no way, ya gotta prove this, ya gotta prove that" kinda crap - is off the scale.

Belief is fine, I guess..... For some people.

Me, I would like to know if any of this is real. And for that extraordinary scientific peer reviewed evidence is needed.

So far I havent seen any.

Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins

#176    psyche101

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:42 AM

View PostScudbuster, on 19 June 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

Excellent points Bee - and I'll gladly believe someone like an Edgar Mitchell.  With all his connections and personal observations over the years, his personal credibility factor vs the naysayers and their usual dribble - "ah no way, ya gotta prove this, ya gotta prove that" kinda crap - is off the scale.

Plus, I don't think any visitors are likely to leave easy to find calling cards around, and if they did, well you can sure as hell bet the gov't boys are uber eager to scoop those items up for purposes of containment, analysis, and if deemed valuable from a defense standpoint or technology advancement - replication of.


Nobody asked anyone to prove anything, all that was requested is that Dr Mitchell be directly quoted, and not embellished and made up. That is what Bee does, she takes his words and makes up her own interpretation. Dr Mitchell states over and again he has no first hand knowledge, and that NASA is completely uninvolved with the Alien question, and that he had no alien experiences in space. I have provided these quotes, Bee does not believe Edgar Mitchell, she thinks there is something "between the lines that only she can see.
I agree with NASA, Dr Mitchell is a great American, but we do not share his opinions.
If you have more guts than Bee, then I invite you to look at the thread whereby Quillius, whom you might note is an ETH proponent, not a skeptic like myself was the primary source of information proving that Dr Mitchell not only knows absolutely nothing about ET, but that his sources are not even recognised by the UFOlogists like Friedman and are extraordinarily dubious including Bob Lazar and Glenn Dennis.

Quite frankly, looking at your response, it would appear you did not read any post other than Bee's limited interpretations. The woman who thinks the US developed a Death Ray and shot down the Roswell saucer. You see, the more whacky a claim  the more Bee likes it, and that is what I take offence to her silly little games, as they lead less knowledgable people like yourself very much astray. She is much smarter than she makes out you know, this dumb blonde thing is really wearing thin.

LINK - If you have more guts than Bee does to face the music.

I have absolutely no doubt at all that anyone can learn more about the Roswell incident right here at UM in threads than you could if you learned every single snippet that Dr Mitchell knows about the incident in total, in fact, I reckon even Dr Mitchell could find a surprise or two about the incident here that he still is not aware of.

Edited by psyche101, 19 June 2013 - 01:50 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#177    psyche101

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:44 AM

View PostDBunker, on 19 June 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

Belief is fine, I guess..... For some people.

Me, I would like to know if any of this is real. And for that extraordinary scientific peer reviewed evidence is needed.

So far I havent seen any.

I am not even seeing evidence of an ability to clearly read English over the last few posts! How the heck these people think Dr Mitchell's claims equate to alien proof beggars belief. All I see is evidence of an education system in need of repair.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#178    Scudbuster

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:26 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 19 June 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

Nobody asked anyone to prove anything, all that was requested is that Dr Mitchell be directly quoted, and not embellished and made up. That is what Bee does, she takes his words and makes up her own interpretation. Dr Mitchell states over and again he has no first hand knowledge, and that NASA is completely uninvolved with the Alien question, and that he had no alien experiences in space. I have provided these quotes, Bee does not believe Edgar Mitchell, she thinks there is something "between the lines that only she can see.
I agree with NASA, Dr Mitchell is a great American, but we do not share his opinions.
If you have more guts than Bee, then I invite you to look at the thread whereby Quillius, whom you might note is an ETH proponent, not a skeptic like myself was the primary source of information proving that Dr Mitchell not only knows absolutely nothing about ET, but that his sources are not even recognised by the UFOlogists like Friedman and are extraordinarily dubious including Bob Lazar and Glenn Dennis.

Quite frankly, looking at your response, it would appear you did not read any post other than Bee's limited interpretations. The woman who thinks the US developed a Death Ray and shot down the Roswell saucer. You see, the more whacky a claim  the more Bee likes it, and that is what I take offence to her silly little games, as they lead less knowledgable people like yourself very much astray. She is much smarter than she makes out you know, this dumb blonde thing is really wearing thin.

LINK - If you have more guts than Bee does to face the music.

I have absolutely no doubt at all that anyone can learn more about the Roswell incident right here at UM in threads than you could if you learned every single snippet that Dr Mitchell knows about the incident in total, in fact, I reckon even Dr Mitchell could find a surprise or two about the incident here that he still is not aware of.

Ah, look, Mr Skeptic, I have stated before that i believe 95% of all the UFO crap that is thrown out there is just that - crap. So get it straight and don't try to bait me into something else. As far as Edgar Mitchell goes - and others with first hand knowledge -  they have some bona fide credibility, and I will listen to what he/they have to say.


#179    psyche101

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:48 AM

View PostScudbuster, on 19 June 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

Ah, look, Mr Skeptic, I have stated before that i believe 95% of all the UFO crap that is thrown out there is just that - crap. So get it straight and don't try to bait me into something else. As far as Edgar Mitchell goes - and others with first hand knowledge -  they have some bona fide credibility, and I will listen to what he/they have to say.

Mr. believer, I am not baiting you into anything, I am pointing out Dr Mitchell's actual words. Do you believe Edgar Mitchell when he says:


(Edgar Mitchell) I, nor any crew I was on (I was on three Apollo crews), received any briefing before or after flights on UFO events, saw anything in space suggesting UFOs or structures on the moon, etc. We did it just like we said in official reports. My only claim to knowledge of these events is from the individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they saw, and now believe it should be made public. But I claim no first hand knowledge, nor have any. Pass it on to the rest of the net, if you will. --Edgar Mitchell

See what Dr. Mitchell himself states about his own firsthand knowledge?

If you lack the fortitude to follow the provided link to the provided information, and prefer to make up you own interpretations such as Bee opted to do, then I will continue to point out that you too are misquoting the man only to achieve your own personal agenda.


Only 95%?

Edited by psyche101, 19 June 2013 - 02:50 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#180    conspiracy buff

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 04:47 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 19 June 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

Mr. believer, I am not baiting you into anything, I am pointing out Dr Mitchell's actual words. Do you believe Edgar Mitchell when he says:


(Edgar Mitchell) I, nor any crew I was on (I was on three Apollo crews), received any briefing before or after flights on UFO events, saw anything in space suggesting UFOs or structures on the moon, etc. We did it just like we said in official reports. My only claim to knowledge of these events is from the individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they saw, and now believe it should be made public. But I claim no first hand knowledge, nor have any. Pass it on to the rest of the net, if you will. --Edgar Mitchell

See what Dr. Mitchell himself states about his own firsthand knowledge?

If you lack the fortitude to follow the provided link to the provided information, and prefer to make up you own interpretations such as Bee opted to do, then I will continue to point out that you too are misquoting the man only to achieve your own personal agenda.


Only 95%?

I'm just pointing out the obvious here, but you seem to almost ridicule those who believe in the UFO/ET phenomena.  Can't we all believe as we choose to?  I get that you want someone to give direct proof and you don't believe in most of what is posted.  Which is admirable.  However, you cannot dismiss the whole field of Ufology just because no one has given "the smoking gun" or direct proof.  There have been admitted hoaxes and those cases do make it harder for the others to be taken seriously.  There have been ALOT of people in the last 100 years or so alone giving us their stories to convince even the most hardened skeptic that this is real and something is going on that governments don't want to share their knowledge on.  Now what that is, is open to debate.  But there have been cases where trace evidence, sightings, and unexplained elements are left giving us the clear impression that this is quite real.  So are all of these people simply crazy?  Or are they simple recounting what they honestly saw and reported?  Skeptics often want to say it is a case of crazies trying to get attention and while some are guilty of doing it for personal gain, not all of these people are.

Back to Edgar Mitchell again?  Wow, you cannot let that go can you?  Is that an obsession or something?  That you are such a skeptic that you'll ridicule anyone for anything and go to extremes to be right all the time?  That is sad really and typical of skeptics looking down their noses on believers.

Edited by conspiracy buff, 19 June 2013 - 04:49 AM.

There is a grain of truth in every conspiracy known to man, you just have to be intelligent enough to find it.




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