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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#3001    Othar Winis

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 08:58 AM

View PostApol, on 21 March 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:

Moreover, the inscriptions on the burgh-walls would have been the very first that would fall prey to the conquerors' ravage - they would have been annihilated in the most thorough ways.

Exactly.

And adding to what was said in the last three posts (Apol, NO-ID-EA and Puzzler):
Most archaeological finds are labelled "Germanic", "Keltic", "(Anglo-) Saxon" (since '45 the label 'Germanic' is less popular), while some might as well have been labelled "Frisian".

History, including archaeology are for a part politically relevant as they help create or sustain a national identity, even more so in these times of secularization.

I can't copy the photo's, but in another thread there are finds in the the Römisch-Germanische Museum in Köln of a big 6-spoked wheel (remains) and this was said:

Quote

Als toelichting in de tentoonstellingsgids stond hierover nog dat de Franken in de 4e en 5e eeuw 'heidense' symbolen, zoals dit wiel, systematisch vernietigden. Dit zal zeker ook zijn gebeurd met eventueel overgeleverde teksten.

=> In the catalogue of the exhibition it was explained that the Franks in the 4th and 5th century systematically destroyed all 'pagan'symbols, like this wheel. This will surely also have happened with texts that might have been saved until then.

In this museum was also a bowl (dated: first ten years of CE) with the name Horus scratched on it with a 'Fryan' H (although it may also have been meant as an L: Lorus?, because that is sometimes written as a mirrored Greek Lambda), but the photo is not very clear. I hope someone can make a better picture of it some day.

The Greek alphabet has no H, and the Latin one is the same as our capital H.

Typical is that in the explanation this name was not mentioned, while that of another bowl (in normal letters) in the same showcase was.

My point is, that once archaeologists go look for JOL script, they may find more of it.

Many letters that diverge from the classic ancient alphabets as we know them can be found here: http://otharus.tumblr.com/

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#3002    Knul

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 11:12 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 20 March 2013 - 10:59 PM, said:

Thank you.

Now I ask you: will you agree when a post a link to the Stormfront site, where HLH/Otharus is posting?

I don't want you to report me as some kind of nazi again, I have been banned from that stupid site already for not being "White" enough.

.

This thread should be free from neonazi links including the neonazi blog Fryskednis. In fact everybody can see, that this thread is again poisened by neonazism by Otharus, HLH, Gestur. I told you, that it was a big mistake of you to register with Stormfront.


#3003    The Puzzler

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:01 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 20 March 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:



I'd like you to show me an example of that.

Not from the OLB, of course.

Here, try to read this (without Googling):

Eiris sazun idisi, sazun hera duoder; suma hapt heptidun, suma heri lezidun, suma clubodun umbi cuoniouuidi: insprinc haptbandun, inuar uigandun

.
I'll pass right now thanks.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3004    The Puzzler

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:17 PM

View Postgestur, on 21 March 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:



Exactly.

And adding to what was said in the last three posts (Apol, NO-ID-EA and Puzzler):
Most archaeological finds are labelled "Germanic", "Keltic", "(Anglo-) Saxon" (since '45 the label 'Germanic' is less popular), while some might as well have been labelled "Frisian".

History, including archaeology are for a part politically relevant as they help create or sustain a national identity, even more so in these times of secularization.

I can't copy the photo's, but in another thread there are finds in the the Römisch-Germanische Museum in Köln of a big 6-spoked wheel (remains) and this was said:



=> In the catalogue of the exhibition it was explained that the Franks in the 4th and 5th century systematically destroyed all 'pagan'symbols, like this wheel. This will surely also have happened with texts that might have been saved until then.

In this museum was also a bowl (dated: first ten years of CE) with the name Horus scratched on it with a 'Fryan' H (although it may also have been meant as an L: Lorus?, because that is sometimes written as a mirrored Greek Lambda), but the photo is not very clear. I hope someone can make a better picture of it some day.

The Greek alphabet has no H, and the Latin one is the same as our capital H.

Typical is that in the explanation this name was not mentioned, while that of another bowl (in normal letters) in the same showcase was.

My point is, that once archaeologists go look for JOL script, they may find more of it.

Many letters that diverge from the classic ancient alphabets as we know them can be found here: http://otharus.tumblr.com/
I agree the absence of the writing is a problem. However, I do think that some good reasons have been given on why we can't find any relics of it.

Just to recall the Nordwestblock theory....because even though we may not find any writing, evidences point to a people in the exact area of Frisia whose language may have been more important than we know.

The Nordwestblock theory

Some scholars (De Laet, Gysseling, Hachmann, Kossack & Kuhn) have speculated that a separate ethnic identity, neither Germanic nor Celtic, survived in the Netherlands until the Roman period. They see the Netherlands as having been part of an Iron Age "Nordwestblock" stretching from the Somme to the Weser.[25][26] Their view is that this culture, which had its own language, was being absorbed by the Celts to the south and the Germanic peoples from the east as late as the immediate pre-Roman perod.

Disappearance of the Frisii

The ancient Frisii were forced to resettle within Roman territory as serfs (laeti) about 300, and disappeared as a distinct group. Three factors contributed to the disappearance of the Frisii from the northern Netherlands. First, according to the Panegyrici Latini (Manuscript VIII), the ancient Frisii were forced to resettle within Roman territory as laeti (i.e., Roman-era serfs) in ca. 296.[31] This is the last reference to the ancient Frisii in the historical record.


http://en.wikipedia....the_Netherlands

What makes the OLB seem all the more real to me is that these people were a people who had everything wiped out - by nature, Romans, Franks and every other man and his dog, losing most of their identity and language in the process. Who knows what has been built over, kept secret or lost to the sea and time, before archaeology was even 'invented'.

Edited by The Puzzler, 21 March 2013 - 02:31 PM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3005    The Puzzler

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:50 PM

It's interesting that the Frisii and Frisiaevones disappeared to be replaced by their old kin the Angles and Saxons - Anglo-Saxons and Jutes - it's these people who settled in ancient Frisia and became "Frisians" although not descended from the ancient Frisii.

Continued: What happened to them, however, is suggested in the archaeological record. The discovery of a type of earthenware unique to 4th century Frisia, called terp Tritzum, shows that an unknown number of them were resettled in Flanders and Kent,[32] likely as laeti under Roman coercion. Second, the environment in the low-lying coastal regions of northwestern Europe began to deteriorate ca. 250 and gradually worsened over the next 200 years. Tectonic subsidence, a rising water table and storm surges combined to flood some areas with marine transgressions. The situation was aggravated by a shift to a cooler, wetter climate in the region. If there had been any Frisii left in Frisia, they would have fallen victim to the whims of nature.[33][34][35][36] Third, after the collapse of the Roman Empire, there was a decline in population as Roman activity stopped and Roman institutions withdrew. As a result of these three factors, the Frisii and Frisiaevones disappeared from the area. The coastal lands remained largely unpopulated for the next two centuries.

As climatic conditions improved, there was another mass migration of Germanic peoples into the area from the east. This is known as the "Migration Period" (Volksverhuizingen). The northern Netherlands received an influx of new migrants and settlers, mostly Saxons, but also Angles and Jutes. Many of these migrants did not stay in the northern Netherlands but moved on to England and are known today as the Anglo-Saxons. The newcomers that stayed in the northern Netherlands would eventually be referred to as "Frisians", although they were not descended from the ancient Frisii. These new Frisians settled in the northern Netherlands and would become the ancestors of the modern Frisians.[37][38] (Because the early Frisians and Anglo-Saxons were formed from largely identical tribal confederacies, their respective languages were very similar. Old Frisian is the most closely related language to Old English[39] and the modern Frisian dialects are in turn the closest related languages to contemporary English.) By the end of the 6th century, the Frisian territory in the northern Netherlands had expanded west to the North Sea coast and, by the 7th century, south to Dorestad. During this period most of the northern Netherlands was known as Frisia. This extended Frisian territory is sometimes referred to as Frisia Magna (or Greater Frisia).


Dorestad and main traderoutes
In the 7th century and 8th century, the Frankish chronologies mention this area as the kingdom of the Frisians. This kingdom comprised the coastal provinces of the Netherlands and the German North Sea coast. During this time, the Frisian language was spoken along the entire southern North Sea coast. The 7th century Frisian Kingdom (650–734) under King Aldegisel and King Redbad, had its centre of power in Utrecht.

http://en.wikipedia....the_Netherlands


English may only show relics of Fryan/early Frisian that was used in Old Saxon. So some Fryan words are probably lost and the English words are Saxon versions of Fryan words.

Edited by The Puzzler, 21 March 2013 - 02:50 PM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3006    Knul

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 03:28 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 21 March 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:




Dorestad and main traderoutes
In the 7th century and 8th century, the Frankish chronologies mention this area as the kingdom of the Frisians. This kingdom comprised the coastal provinces of the Netherlands and the German North Sea coast. During this time, the Frisian language was spoken along the entire southern North Sea coast. The 7th century Frisian Kingdom (650–734) under King Aldegisel and King Redbad, had its centre of power in Utrecht.

http://en.wikipedia....the_Netherlands


English may only show relics of Fryan/early Frisian that was used in Old Saxon. So some Fryan words are probably lost and the English words are Saxon versions of Fryan words.

Dorestad (city) never existed. s. http://www.rodinbook...exdorestad.html .


#3007    Knul

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 03:32 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 21 March 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

It's interesting that the Frisii and Frisiaevones disappeared to be replaced by their old kin the Angles and Saxons - Anglo-Saxons and Jutes - it's these people who settled in ancient Frisia and became "Frisians" although not descended from the ancient Frisii.

Continued: What happened to them, however, is suggested in the archaeological record. The discovery of a type of earthenware unique to 4th century Frisia, called terp Tritzum, shows that an unknown number of them were resettled in Flanders and Kent,[32] likely as laeti under Roman coercion. Second, the environment in the low-lying coastal regions of northwestern Europe began to deteriorate ca. 250 and gradually worsened over the next 200 years. Tectonic subsidence, a rising water table and storm surges combined to flood some areas with marine transgressions. The situation was aggravated by a shift to a cooler, wetter climate in the region. If there had been any Frisii left in Frisia, they would have fallen victim to the whims of nature.[33][34][35][36] Third, after the collapse of the Roman Empire, there was a decline in population as Roman activity stopped and Roman institutions withdrew. As a result of these three factors, the Frisii and Frisiaevones disappeared from the area. The coastal lands remained largely unpopulated for the next two centuries.

As climatic conditions improved, there was another mass migration of Germanic peoples into the area from the east. This is known as the "Migration Period" (Volksverhuizingen). The northern Netherlands received an influx of new migrants and settlers, mostly Saxons, but also Angles and Jutes. Many of these migrants did not stay in the northern Netherlands but moved on to England and are known today as the Anglo-Saxons. The newcomers that stayed in the northern Netherlands would eventually be referred to as "Frisians", although they were not descended from the ancient Frisii. These new Frisians settled in the northern Netherlands and would become the ancestors of the modern Frisians.[37][38] (Because the early Frisians and Anglo-Saxons were formed from largely identical tribal confederacies, their respective languages were very similar. Old Frisian is the most closely related language to Old English[39] and the modern Frisian dialects are in turn the closest related languages to contemporary English.) By the end of the 6th century, the Frisian territory in the northern Netherlands had expanded west to the North Sea coast and, by the 7th century, south to Dorestad. During this period most of the northern Netherlands was known as Frisia. This extended Frisian territory is sometimes referred to as Frisia Magna (or Greater Frisia).





English may only show relics of Fryan/early Frisian that was used in Old Saxon. So some Fryan words are probably lost and the English words are Saxon versions of Fryan words.
Could you please quote the source ?


#3008    The Puzzler

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 04:35 PM

View PostKnul, on 21 March 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:


Could you please quote the source ?
The source is there, History of the Netherlands - Wikipedia. You will find all sources of the relevant quotes there too.
Here it is again anyway: http://en.wikipedia....the_Netherlands
Scroll to Disappearance of the Frisii.

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#3009    The Puzzler

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 04:40 PM

View PostKnul, on 21 March 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:



Dorestad (city) never existed. s. http://www.rodinbook...exdorestad.html .
Looks alot of writing I unfortunately cannot read. But I can read this:

In the Early Middle Ages, Dorestad was the largest settlement (emporia) of northwestern Europe. It was a large, flourishing trading place, three kilometers long, situated where the rivers Rhine and Lek diverge southeast of Utrecht in the Netherlands near the modern town of Wijk bij Duurstede.[1][2] In Roman times a Roman fortress was built there that was still in use during the existence of Dorestad. Between 600 and around 719 Dorestad was often fought over between the Frisians and the Franks.

Dorestad was a North Sea trading centre between the 7th century and the middle of the 9th century,[2] primarily handling goods from the Middle Rhineland.[2][3] Wine was among the major products traded at Dorestad, likely from vineyards south of Mainz.[3]

The place was widely known because it had a mint. Around 640, the master of the mint in Dorestad was Madelinus. Later, sceattas and Carolingian coins were minted there.

Because of its success as a trading place, according to medieval Christian written sources[4] Dorestad drew the attention of Vikings, who frequently raided the place (834, 835, 836, 837, 844, 857 and 863). Vikings were involved in the first raid in 834. The raid of 857 was led by Rorik of Dorestad.[citation needed] Dorestad became the capital of the Viking Kingdom of Dorestad, which lasted from 850 to 885.

Dorestad declined around 850 and shrunk to a small agricultural site. However, in 896 king Zwentibold of Lotharingia refers to the rights and privileges of Dorestad in a document. The town's remains have been partially washed away by the river.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorestad

So this place is what? Imaginary?




In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3010    Knul

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 06:21 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 21 March 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

Looks alot of writing I unfortunately cannot read. But I can read this:

In the Early Middle Ages, Dorestad was the largest settlement (emporia) of northwestern Europe. It was a large, flourishing trading place, three kilometers long, situated where the rivers Rhine and Lek diverge southeast of Utrecht in the Netherlands near the modern town of Wijk bij Duurstede.[1][2] In Roman times a Roman fortress was built there that was still in use during the existence of Dorestad. Between 600 and around 719 Dorestad was often fought over between the Frisians and the Franks.

Dorestad was a North Sea trading centre between the 7th century and the middle of the 9th century,[2] primarily handling goods from the Middle Rhineland.[2][3] Wine was among the major products traded at Dorestad, likely from vineyards south of Mainz.[3]

The place was widely known because it had a mint. Around 640, the master of the mint in Dorestad was Madelinus. Later, sceattas and Carolingian coins were minted there.

Because of its success as a trading place, according to medieval Christian written sources[4] Dorestad drew the attention of Vikings, who frequently raided the place (834, 835, 836, 837, 844, 857 and 863). Vikings were involved in the first raid in 834. The raid of 857 was led by Rorik of Dorestad.[citation needed] Dorestad became the capital of the Viking Kingdom of Dorestad, which lasted from 850 to 885.

Dorestad declined around 850 and shrunk to a small agricultural site. However, in 896 king Zwentibold of Lotharingia refers to the rights and privileges of Dorestad in a document. The town's remains have been partially washed away by the river.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorestad

So this place is what? Imaginary?

Not imaginary, but a misunderstanding. The only source is a monk of Ravenna (ca. 700), who tells that Dorestates (indicated as patria Frisonum) is at the mouth of the Rhine river. The place called Dorestad is 80 km inland. You will not find any old map which shows Dorestad. This is strange, because Dorestad has been regarded as the most important trade place of the early mediaevals. The real name of the so called Dorestad is Vic (lat. vicus, Wijk). They say that Dorestad suddenly disappeared, but the fact is that it never appeared.

Kaart van Blaeu

Kaart van Jansonius

Kaart van Ortelius

Kaart van Tirion

Edited by Knul, 21 March 2013 - 06:56 PM.


#3011    Othar Winis

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 06:22 PM

View PostKnul, on 21 March 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

Dorestad (city) never existed.

... and Moses parted the Red Sea :nw: .

Dorestad in the 9th century was the most strategic Frisian trading centre:

Posted Image

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#3012    Knul

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 06:24 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 21 March 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

The source is there, History of the Netherlands - Wikipedia. You will find all sources of the relevant quotes there too.
Here it is again anyway: http://en.wikipedia....the_Netherlands
Scroll to Disappearance of the Frisii.
Thanks. I never read this article before.


#3013    Othar Winis

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 06:51 PM

View PostKnul, on 21 March 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:


Blaeu is a 17th century reconstruction of the Roman times (ca. year zero), it has "Batovodorum", which appears to have been (or was thought to be) the old name.

Jansonius does show its newer name: "Wyc Duyrstede" (south-east of Utregt).

Ortelius is a 16th century phantasy map (reconstruction), it shows a settlement without a name in the area of Dorestad.

Tirion is also a reconstruction and it shows "Batovodorum Vicus - nu Wyk"; which was the new name ('Wyk Durestad').

A modern reconstruction (2012) made with the newest available knowledge (source: Friese Graafschappen tussen Zwin en Wezer ~ een overzicht van de grafelijkheid in middeleeuws Frisia (ca. 700-1200), by Dirk Jan Henstra):

Posted Image

Edited by gestur, 21 March 2013 - 06:56 PM.

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#3014    Othar Winis

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 06:59 PM

View PostKnul, on 21 March 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

In fact everybody can see, that this thread is again poisened by neonazism ...

I must have missed that, but I do hope you have reported those evil posts.

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#3015    Knul

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 07:25 PM

Amor-land was not under 'Dorestad' but the area of Amer-s-foort. The Rhine did not end at Noordwijk but at Katwijk. So this map is useless.

Posted Image

Edited by Knul, 21 March 2013 - 07:26 PM.





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