110 replies to this topic

[Taun]

DieChecker, on 07 November 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

I think lack of proper Education. And lack of children learning respect, is what is ending this nation, not politics... unless you want to link those to politics. Americans are getting more ignorant and only caring about entertainment. Religion is actually dying off too, so ignorance cannot be laid at religions door. People treasure the political opinons of Gwen Stephani, Katy Perry and John Mayer then about people who have been in politics all their lives and who have helped countless people... because, those people are CELEBRITIES and thus Need to be Worshipped and followed on Twitter and Facebook. It is downhill from here people, regardless of who wins the Presidency.

Celebrity is the new religion...

[Babe Ruth]

OverSword, on 06 November 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

It's all your fault no-goodnik.

And about the democracy comment, what we are grey is a democratic republic.

Thank you!

It is such a nonsensical comment by so many people "we are a republic, not a democracy".  Technically accurate, but missing the point.

I don't see what is so hard to understand about "republic, based on democratic principles"?

The media keeps harping on "democracy", but never define the term.  It suggests that the people control their government, and that is an illusion.  Special interests control the government, and the evidence of that is abundant.

As Lady Kasey has noted, if "We" can fix it, and people have been saying that for decades, why is it NOT fixed?  Why is it worse than ever?

Simple answer: Special interests control the government, we DO NOT.

[Br Cornelius]

joc, on 05 November 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

You just keep hitting them out of the park there!  Of course it is all the fault of the liberals.  Always!

Keep singing that mantra as you rock yourself to sleep

Br Cornelius

[joc]

Br Cornelius, on 07 November 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

Keep singing that mantra as you rock yourself to sleep

Br Cornelius

[zenfahr]

DieChecker, on 07 November 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

I think lack of proper Education. And lack of children learning respect, is what is ending this nation, not politics... unless you want to link those to politics. Americans are getting more ignorant and only caring about entertainment. Religion is actually dying off too, so ignorance cannot be laid at religions door. People treasure the political opinons of Gwen Stephani, Katy Perry and John Mayer then about people who have been in politics all their lives and who have helped countless people... because, those people are CELEBRITIES and thus Need to be Worshipped and followed on Twitter and Facebook. It is downhill from here people, regardless of who wins the Presidency.

Entertaining as it may be, it is an effort by people like Gwen, Katy, and John, to try to get people interested in politics, by using their influence to open diologe.  But It is unfortunate that a massive amount of people will hear what their opinions are and never think to look up some information for themselves. And then pass themselves off by repeating what they heard.  Educators in this country do work hard to educate the population, but are often in direct competition to cell phones, internet, gossip, TV, movies and so on.  Students know more about the NFL, or NBA than they do about us history, government, lit, math, science etc.  Its sad. So what do we do to get our young people to focus?  If the economy really takes a dump, and there are less toys to distract, maybe then people will pay more attention.

[DieChecker]

zenfahr, on 07 November 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

Entertaining as it may be, it is an effort by people like Gwen, Katy, and John, to try to get people interested in politics, by using their influence to open diologe.  But It is unfortunate that a massive amount of people will hear what their opinions are and never think to look up some information for themselves. And then pass themselves off by repeating what they heard.  Educators in this country do work hard to educate the population, but are often in direct competition to cell phones, internet, gossip, TV, movies and so on.  Students know more about the NFL, or NBA than they do about us history, government, lit, math, science etc.  Its sad. So what do we do to get our young people to focus?  If the economy really takes a dump, and there are less toys to distract, maybe then people will pay more attention.

But those celebritys are not like, "Let's discuss why my points are well thought out." Most are on stage screaming things like, "Obama is the Man.... Vote Democrat... Romney's Evil and a Idiot and a Fool!" I don't think when celebritys are brought into rallys that they are there to discuss with those gathered about the Democrat Platform, it is all about whipping the people into a frenzy so they go out and try to get others to vote the way that the celebrity wants them to. When you see these people on talk shows they usually haven't got any reason for what they promote, other then they think it is the Nice thing to do, or because they believe someones opinion over someone else. Rarely are they well informed and actually worth listening to.

[zenfahr]

DieChecker, on 07 November 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

But those celebritys are not like, "Let's discuss why my points are well thought out." Most are on stage screaming things like, "Obama is the Man.... Vote Democrat... Romney's Evil and a Idiot and a Fool!" I don't think when celebritys are brought into rallys that they are there to discuss with those gathered about the Democrat Platform, it is all about whipping the people into a frenzy so they go out and try to get others to vote the way that the celebrity wants them to. When you see these people on talk shows they usually haven't got any reason for what they promote, other then they think it is the Nice thing to do, or because they believe someones opinion over someone else. Rarely are they well informed and actually worth listening to.

I guess I live in the past, listening to people like Zach Dela Rocha, Eddie Veder, Flobots and such.  People and bands who spoke out about politics and were also well informed.  My generation and the generations before us seemed alot more focused on politics and the world in general as kids than I see with young people today.

[WoIverine]

747400, on 05 November 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

Some very interesting points, although of course the response would be:
(a) it's all Obama's fault;
( b ) Euro-lefties should butt out and mind their own business; and
( c ) and
(d): it's all Obama's fault.

You could probably just go with this one:

( a ) Both Bush Jr. and Obama are at fault.

16 years, that's all it will take apparently.

Edited by WoIverine, 07 November 2012 - 10:28 PM.

[DieChecker]

One thing that will be sure... in 4 years, whatever is going on... will be Obama's fault. I hope and pray for Obama to get to work and not repeat the last 2 years.

[Babe Ruth]

WoIverine, on 07 November 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

You could probably just go with this one:

( a ) Both Bush Jr. and Obama are at fault.

16 years, that's all it will take apparently.

I think the government was hijacked decades ago, and maybe that's what Ike was somehow talking about?

Anyway, we have had poor governance for quite a few decades, and it has been essentially a bipartisan effort.

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

Babe Ruth, on 09 November 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

I think the government was hijacked decades ago, and maybe that's what Ike was somehow talking about?

Anyway, we have had poor governance for quite a few decades, and it has been essentially a bipartisan effort.

Indeed, I think that what any Prsdnt can actually do in terms of the Economy and so on is very limited, so perhaps that's why they make such a big issue of International affairs, where they can score points at home by being Firm and all the rest of it, and please those who are pulling the strings by pursuing whatever shady motives they may have. The President is there to serve, certainly; but it's not the People they're there to servce, is it?

[Kazoo]

DieChecker, on 07 November 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

I think lack of proper Education. And lack of children learning respect, is what is ending this nation, not politics... unless you want to link those to politics. Americans are getting more ignorant and only caring about entertainment. Religion is actually dying off too, so ignorance cannot be laid at religions door. People treasure the political opinons of Gwen Stephani, Katy Perry and John Mayer then about people who have been in politics all their lives and who have helped countless people... because, those people are CELEBRITIES and thus Need to be Worshipped and followed on Twitter and Facebook. It is downhill from here people, regardless of who wins the Presidency.

People since the beginning of civilization have said that about the younger generation.

Your grandfather thought your mothers generation was terrible. Your great grand father thought your grandfathers generation was terrible.  Its just the way things work. People will always be stupid. Get over it. Its not the fault of a culture. Its just a mob mentality and the way people work.

Culture is always stupid. And it will stay stupid. It won't be the downfall of civilization.

Edited by Kazoo, 09 November 2012 - 08:49 PM.

[Babe Ruth]

747400, on 09 November 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

Indeed, I think that what any Prsdnt can actually do in terms of the Economy and so on is very limited, so perhaps that's why they make such a big issue of International affairs, where they can score points at home by being Firm and all the rest of it, and please those who are pulling the strings by pursuing whatever shady motives they may have. The President is there to serve, certainly; but it's not the People they're there to servce, is it?

You hit the nail on the head!

No, he does not serve the people, he serves his masters, and they are hidden behind the curtain.  The purpose of today's mainstream media is to keep the curtain firmly in place, while the purpose of honest media and whistleblowers is to pull the curtain back.

[me-wonders]

Babe Ruth, on 06 November 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

Nothing lasts forever, even cold November rain....

In 1961, having seen it from the perspective of POTUS, Ike warned about pretty much what we are seeing today.  Endless illegitmate wars while the rest of the country suffers.  Failing infrastructure, record homeless, and a military industrial complex run amok.

Control of the government was hijacked by special interest groups years ago, and eventually the Supreme Court gives us the Kelo ruling and the Citizens United ruling.

If democracy means control of the government by the citizens, it is an utter illusion.

Germany was also a Christian Republic.  Do you think Germany's authoritarian republic and the demoocratic republic of the US were the same, or did education of democratic principles and a taught culture,  manifested a more democratic society, than the republic of Germany that the US fought against?  

Back to the subject of this thread here is a good explanation of the economic changes that concern us today.

http://en.wikipedia....United_States   What things might we do differently?

[me-wonders]

Quote

747400, on 09 November 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

Indeed, I think that what any Prsdnt can actually do in terms of the Economy and so on is very limited, so perhaps that's why they make such a big issue of International affairs, where they can score points at home by being Firm and all the rest of it, and please those who are pulling the strings by pursuing whatever shady motives they may have. The President is there to serve, certainly; but it's not the People they're there to servce, is it?

Babe Ruth, on 09 November 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

You hit the nail on the head!

No, he does not serve the people, he serves his masters, and they are hidden behind the curtain.  The purpose of today's mainstream media is to keep the curtain firmly in place, while the purpose of honest media and whistleblowers is to pull the curtain back.

Greenspan warned us we were in for a long period of high employment, because deregulating the banks lead to serious trouble, and there was noout  way of this besides the economic pain we have suffered.   As Bill Clinton said during the campaign, no president could fix our economy faster than it takes to recover from the past banking and spending mistakes.   We should be talking Reaganoics and deregulation of banks, and sending our industry over seas, not blaming presidents.  That is to look at the policies and the result of following them.   I am sure we will not agree on what is the best decisions, as it childish to expect a president to resolve all the problems.

Obama responded to the financial crisis that became obvious after he had entered the race to be our President, by taking the course Roosevelt took, and this did mininzed the pain, and our economy is doing better than European economies.  Yes, our debt is increasing, but things would have been worse if Obama had not taken the course Roosevelt took.

I don't think we say nearly enough about the debt caused by Bush taking us to war without budgeting for it, and without selling war bonds, but going to war completely on credit.  A debt we must now pay plus interest.  In this day of insane credit spending, I guess we have to put political responsibility in the constitution and spell out, a president can not enter us in a war, without a congress approved plan for paying for it.  

While looking into possibility of nuclear war, I came across pictures of extremely expensive bombers being warehoused in Arizona, because these jets built to delivery nuclear bombs are out dated.  We are spending huge sums of money on very expensive military weapons, that are rapidly out dated, and this is besides the expense of war.   This spending on military research and technology  looks like healthy economic growth with great jobs, and at the same time, it is a main factor in our national debt.   It was Eisenhower, Reagan and Bush that took us down this path.  Clinton and Obama have tried to wean us off this military spending, but we can't just cut the cost without crashing our economy.   What do you want?

Edited by me-wonders, 09 November 2012 - 10:15 PM.