201 replies to this topic

[Harte]

JGirl, on 05 December 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

i wouldn't have issue with it if it was any evidence suggesting alien intervention - actually i would be quite fascinated! the issue i have is that there is no reason to entertain that idea.

LRW, on 05 December 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

I also would not have an issue with Egyptologists if they could prove their theories, but they can't.

Note the difference in terms here.

JGirl mentions the lack of any evidence, while LRW mentions the lack of "proof."

Is evidence proof?

Of course not.

There exists evidence for everything the mainstream theorizes on.  There exists no evidence, on the other hand, for alien inrtervention.

Yet a person that decries the fact that Egyptology can't "prove" their theories happily gloms onto an idea that doesn't even have one iota of evidence behind it, much less "proof."

Harte

[JGirl]

Harte, on 05 December 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

Note the difference in terms here.

JGirl mentions the lack of any evidence, while LRW mentions the lack of "proof."

Is evidence proof?

Of course not.

There exists evidence for everything the mainstream theorizes on.  There exists no evidence, on the other hand, for alien inrtervention.

Yet a person that decries the fact that Egyptology can't "prove" their theories happily gloms onto an idea that doesn't even have one iota of evidence behind it, much less "proof."

Harte

exactly how i feel about it. i just want a starting point lol

[spartan max2]

I watched one episode of AA before because i freind wanted me to. When i fact checked everything on the episode i found out that the show is just dumb. All i got to say lol

[LRW]

JGirl, on 05 December 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

we didn't confirm aliens yet.

You mean the mainstream did not confirm them, but shamanistic cultures have known about them for a very long time and actively tune into their worlds through trance, rituals and ceremonies.

Now, if you can imagine that shamanistic cultures can tune into other dimensions (realms) and planes of existence, then imagine how the entities in the other dimensions tune into the earth realm and influence peoples thoughts, feelings, emotions etc. Humans without knowledge of them are sitting ducks to be taken advantage of. The ancients knew about those etities and used amulets for protection etc. Then big controlling power religons like christianity came and cut off all connections with those traditions and brought human intelligence down to zero, made them pacifist sheep etc. They even murdered shamanistic priests and priestesses all over the world, remember the witch hunts? remember what the conquistadors done to the shamanistic culture in south america? there you go, cold blooded murder and destruction and suppression of indigenous ethnic groups knowledge built up through hundreds and thousands of years. Should people write those peoples traditions and cultures off as fairytales? No they should not, ancient knowledge of the cosmos is valuable as is knowledge of the spirit worlds.

Harte, on 05 December 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

There exists no evidence, on the other hand, for alien inrtervention.

Shamanistic cultures would disagree with that, also the modern study of biology is primitive, modern science still lacks explanations for who created humans and why are humans on earth, step forward religon, war, nihilism, atheism etc.

Step forward Unexplained Mysteries, if there was no mysteries, then the forum would not exist.

[Abramelin]

Shamans took drugs and by that had all kinds of weird visions...

You take drugs too? Shrooms, datura,  marihuana, psilocibine, brunfelsia, LSD, San Pedro, Coleus,  ayahuasca?

I did all that.

And you want us to take you seriously when you tell us you have an 'alternative' view on history?

++

EDIT:

I forgot to mention fly agaric (Amanita muscaria), my very first experience with mind-fkg stuff.

It's nothing but messing with your brain chemistry. You are a phyisical being, despite of the fact you desperately desire to ignore that.

Yep, I once thought that ingesting drugs was the perfect way to "see through the veils", but I have long been cured of that fantasy.

You better hit your big toe with a hammer, and then interpret the ensuing pain as a 'mind blowing experience'.

At least you will not intoxicate yourself, and not put your liver on hold.

Cheers.

(Lol).


.

Edited by Abramelin, 05 December 2012 - 10:30 PM.

[JGirl]

LRW, on 05 December 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

You mean the mainstream did not confirm them, but shamanistic cultures have known about them for a very long time and actively tune into their worlds through trance, rituals and ceremonies.

with all respect to shamanistic cultures, their practices and belief systems are not confirmation of the sort that is required for criticial analysis.

[LRW]

Abramelin, on 05 December 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

Shamans took drugs and by that had all kinds of weird visions...

You better hit your big toe with a hammer, and then interpret the ensuing pain as a 'mind blowing experience'.

At least you will not intoxicate yourself, and not put your liver on hold.

Cheers.

(Lol).


.

It does not neccesarily have to involve plant materials to reach other states of conciousness, it can also be reached through meditation or music.

You count out strict meditation and music way too easily. It shows your lack of experience.

JGirl, on 05 December 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

with all respect to shamanistic cultures, their practices and belief systems are not confirmation of the sort that is required for criticial analysis.

To you maybe, certainly not to others with an interest in it.

Critical analysis is only as good as the person that is doing the analysing.

[Abramelin]

LRW, on 05 December 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

It does not neccesarily have to involve plant materials to reach other states of conciousness, it can also be reached through meditation or music.

You count out strict meditation and music way too easily. It shows your lack of experience.

It only shows I didn't post about what other things I experienced.

I practiced meditation, shamanism, drugs, and so on, and maybe long before you were even born,

I even created a site about it, and it lasted for like 6 or 7 years before I finally got fed up with all the bull people believed in.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 05 December 2012 - 11:57 PM.

[Harte]

LRW, on 05 December 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Shamanistic cultures would disagree with that, also the modern study of biology is primitive, modern science still lacks explanations for who created humans and why are humans on earth, step forward religon, war, nihilism, atheism etc.

To which "Shamanistic cultures" do you refer?

Are you in the business of interpreting other people's visions?  People you've never even met?

Perhaps aliens make saran wrap.  I've never seen it made, after all, and I probably know more about it than the manufacturers do.

Harte

[JGirl]

LRW, on 05 December 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

It does not neccesarily have to involve plant materials to reach other states of conciousness, it can also be reached through meditation or music.

You count out strict meditation and music way too easily. It shows your lack of experience.




To you maybe, certainly not to others with an interest in it.

Critical analysis is only as good as the person that is doing the analysing.

critical analysis stands on its own. at least there are those who take that route rather than grabbing things out of the ethers.

[kmt_sesh]

LRW, on 05 December 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

I also would not have an issue with Egyptologists if they could prove their theories, but they can't. So, i look to other theories...

Most people think of the AA theory as something like star trek, spaceships visiting etc, it does not have to be that, it can take other forms too. I like many different theories, i'm not limited to just the AA theory. However, i simply do not agree with Egyptologists cause i feel they are lieing, promoting false history with unproven theories etc.

>>Snip<<

Egyptologists can't prove their theories? A theory by nature is not fact, so if a theory happens to be proved it cease to be a theory and becomes fact. It is an explanation presented to explain something, and supported by a certain body of evidence. A theory can be evaluated by people with the requisite education and training, after which a theory can be proved incorrect or bolstered by new-found evidence.

So in the realm of Egyptology, how the Great Pyramid was built is theoretical and can never be fully proved because none of us was there to see the construction. Experimental archaeology can take us closer, however. For example, archaeologists have demonstrated in modern times that stone and copper tools can indeed cut and dress limestone masonry and other types of stones with relative ease. Similar experiments have demonstrated how bronze saws can in fact cut through granite. Likewise, it's been demonstrated that a dozen or so men can move and maneuver blocks of masonry weighing up to three tons with little difficulty, including up slopes to approximate ramps.

Some old theories that had considerable following for years, have now been discarded due to re-evaluation of extant evidence and the accumulation of new evidence. One example is the heiress theory, stating the Egyptian royal line was matrilineal and required the king to marry a woman from the line of a queen. There is actually very little evidence to substantiate this, and in fact some of the most powerful pharaohs did not marry a woman from any known royal line (e.g., Amunhotep III, Ramesses II). Another example is that Akhenaten suffered from Marfan's syndrome or a similar disorder, due to the odd appearance of the statues and other royal artwork from the Amarna Period. Recent extensive genetic and pathological analyses of royal mummies from that time period have yielded no convincing evidence for such a disorder, and in fact there are other explanations for the appearance of the artwork, so this theory also is no longer tenable.

I go to this length in explaining theory and citing examples because ancient aliens is not a theory. It is not even really a hypothesis. It is science fiction and nothing more. Shows like Ancient Aliens present stunningly inept and incorrect interpretations of ancient art that in no way reflect the realities of the societies which produced the ancient art. For every crazy and half-baked twist the talking heads on Ancient Aliens commit in presenting evidence, there is already a reasonable, terrestrial explanation.

There is a perfectly sound reason ancient alien advocates are not taken seriously in the scientific and wider academic community. They do not contribute theories, they contribute a bizarre form of pseudo-historical entertainment.

Quote

Wonder why they worshipped cats? ever hear of the witch with the cat who sees into the spirit world? There are many theories, to limit yourself to Egyptology is boring and not colourful, its bland, dry and boring, therefore its not vibrant.  

>>Snip<<

The Egyptians did not worship cats, per se. This is a very common misconception. That they valued and liked cats is beyond question, but that's hardly unusual. Many of us do, and have for many centuries. Certain deities were imbued with feline characteristics, such as Bastet and Sekhmet. The statue in your photo represents Bastet and there are many just like it in museums around the world. We can't even say with any certainty that the Egyptians thought Bastet actually looked like a cat or Sekhmet like a lion—only that they attributed feline attributes to these deities. A statue like the one in your photo would've occupied an important part of a temple, and the Egyptians believed the soul of Bastet inhabited it. They worshiped the soul within the statue.

[kmt_sesh]

Harte, on 06 December 2012 - 02:02 AM, said:

...

Perhaps aliens make saran wrap.  I've never seen it made, after all, and I probably know more about it than the manufacturers do.

Harte

Nope, saran wrap was invented by Atlanteans. Like I've often said, the only technology aliens have felt safe to share with us is Velcro.

Editing to add: I like the line in the latest Men in Black movie where the Viagrians have an important technology to share with us. That really got a rise out of me.

Ha!

Edited by kmt_sesh, 06 December 2012 - 03:13 AM.

[Harte]

kmt_sesh, on 06 December 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

Nope, saran wrap was invented by Atlanteans. Like I've often said, the only technology aliens have felt safe to share with us is Velcro.

Utter poppycock!

If the Atlanteans had had saran wrap, they surely would have been preserved from their fate.

All they had to do was wrap the island and it would have locked in the freshness.

Harte

[kmt_sesh]

Harte, on 06 December 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

Utter poppycock!

If the Atlanteans had had saran wrap, they surely would have been preserved from their fate.

All they had to do was wrap the island and it would have locked in the freshness.

Harte

Got me there, sir.

[JGirl]

Harte, on 06 December 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

Utter poppycock!

If the Atlanteans had had saran wrap, they surely would have been preserved from their fate.

All they had to do was wrap the island and it would have locked in the freshness.

Harte

wish i could have liked this one twice!