4013 replies to this topic

[Abramelin]

Van Gorp, on 12 January 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

Other example:

The Gullah are the descendants of slaves who live in the Lowcountry region of South Carolina and Georgia, which includes both the coastal plain and the Sea Islands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gullah

Many colonisation went side by side with slavery or forced exile.

I don't know if you read the passage in the OLB about the Gola, but there is no hint of them being slaves.

They are priests.

Hebrews had settled in Sidon among the Phoenicians and many there (or so it is said) had adopted the Phoenician religion.

This could have happened long before Babylon and all that.

The Gola were 'expelled' , or had simply settled elsewhere, or people who had fled away for whatever reason, (mostly) because of occupation by a foreign force, or because of having the wrong religious (or political) ideas in their home country (Israel).


Two terms are used to describe the Jewish world outside of Eretz Yisrael. They are very different in meaning although they relate to the same physical reality. The word DIASPORA, originating from a Greek word meaning scattering, is a value free word that describes objectively the Jewish world as a world in which Jews live in many different countries. Another word, describing exactly the same reality in a value laden sense, is GALUT [or GOLA], meaning literally exile.

The use of the term Galut or exile to describe the Jewish communities of the world indicates that these communities live an unnatural and undesirable existence. When people are in exile, the assumption is that they are living for some reason in the wrong place - it would be far more natural for them to be living in their homeland. In other words, the use of the term Galut to describe the scattered Jewish communities of the world indicates an attitude towards that world, based on disapproval and - often - of the hope that this unnatural state of affairs will come to an end, and that the people in Galut will be enabled to return to their homeland.

http://www.jewishage...ntroduction.htm

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Edited by Abramelin, 12 January 2013 - 10:37 AM.

[Van Gorp]

Abramelin, on 12 January 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

I don't know if you read the passage in the OLB about the Gola, but there is no hint of them being slaves.

They are priests.

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I didn't think the Gola in the OLB need to be slaves.
The root 'Gol', 'Col', 'Kol' can be used in a context of kolonisation, settlement, exploitation of foreign land (voluntarely or forced) and slavery is only one very often used approach for that.

In OLB they were also 'sent'.-> you could think in OLB it is more used in the context of colonism than pure 'run aways' or exiles needed to get rid off or fled themselves for there own security.

[Knul]

Van Gorp, on 12 January 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

I didn't think the Gola in the OLB need to be slaves.
The root 'Gol', 'Col', 'Kol' can be used in a context of kolonisation, settlement, exploitation of foreign land (voluntarely or forced) and slavery is only one very often used approach for that.

In OLB they were also 'sent'.-> you could think in OLB it is more used in the context of colonism than pure 'run aways' or exiles needed to get rid off or fled themselves for there own security.

I agree with Abramelin, but I have some difficulty about the Gols being priests.

[Abramelin]

First the part of the OLB that mentions the Gola for the first time:


Inner northlikste herne fon tha Middelsê, thêr lêid en êland by thêre kâd. Nw kêmon hja thaet a kâp to frêjande. Thêrvr waerth ene mêna acht bilêid.

Moder-is rêd waerth wnnen, men Moder sach ra lyast fêr of. Thêrvmbe mênde hju that er nên kwâ an stek, thach as wi aefternêi sâgon ho wi misdên hêde haevon wi thaet êland Missellja hêten. Hiraefter skil blika ho wi thêr to rêde hêde.

Tha Gola, alsa heton tha saendalinga prestera Sydon-is. Tha Gola hêdon wel sjan thet et land thêr skares bifolkad was aend fêr fon thêre Moder wêre.

Translation:

In the northernmost corner of the Middle Sea there lies an island near the coast. They now came and asked to buy that, on which a general council was held.

The mother’s advice was asked, and she wished to see them at some distance, so she saw no harm in it; but as we afterwards saw what a mistake we had made, we called the island Missellia. Hereafter will be seen what reason we had.

The Gola, that's how the missionary priests of Sidon were called, the Gola had well seen that the land there was thinly populated, and was far from the Mother.


Can't help it: that's what the OLB calls them.


And I wouldn't call them 'colonists' either. because the Phoenicians were not known as 'farmers' :

colonize (v.)
1620s, "to settle with colonists," from stem of Latin colonus "tiller of the soil, farmer" (see colony); in sense "to make another place into a national dependency" without regard for settlement there by 1790s (e.g. in reference to French activity in Egypt or British work in India), and probably directly from colony.

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

And who were known as 'priests'?


The society was obviously a caste system, but no one knows what the castes were, although rulers, princes, nobles and elders are all mentioned in Ezra and Nehemiah. All of the colonists will have been of privileged classes, whereas the locals were mainly simple peasants. Judah was a “nation of priests”  implying that everyone in the original temple state were considered as priests (..).

http://askwhy.co.uk/...amentPeriod.php
http://www.biblegate...9:6&version=NIV

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Edited by Abramelin, 12 January 2013 - 03:38 PM.

[Abramelin]

Van Gorp, on 12 January 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

I didn't think the Gola in the OLB need to be slaves.
The root 'Gol', 'Col', 'Kol' can be used in a context of kolonisation, settlement, exploitation of foreign land (voluntarely or forced) and slavery is only one very often used approach for that.

In OLB they were also 'sent'.-> you could think in OLB it is more used in the context of colonism than pure 'run aways' or exiles needed to get rid off or fled themselves for there own security.

If you are going to split up the word 'colonist', you'll have a problem because it is derived from a Latin word meaning 'farmer'.

And I am not suggesting the Gola were expelled and kicked to Missellia, but that they were already exiles in the place where they came from and lived: Sidon. So, they had been kicked out of Israel or had fled Israel, then settled in Sidon, and lived happily ever after.  But they were still Gola and may have used that denomination when they, out of free will, traveled along with the Phoenicians.

The main problem here is that the Gola/Missellia story in the OLB took place around 1600 BC. when Israel not even existed.

But it's not the first time I said that many events in history have been transplanted to a 1000 years earlier by those who created the OLB...

+++

EDIT:

Here's something akin to the scenario I described: http://en.wikipedia....Jezebel_(Bible)

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Edited by Abramelin, 12 January 2013 - 04:06 PM.

[Van Gorp]

Abramelin, on 12 January 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

If you are going to split up the word 'colonist', you'll have a problem because it is derived from a Latin word meaning 'farmer'.

Not necesseraly: Fenicians were kolonists, missionary priests (see also middleage abbeys) were most active in agriculture and trade.
To make a colony (volks-planting) thrive, you first need to cultivate the land and have even better gains if you can make trade with the products as cheaply produced as possible.
In Roman sources Punic-speaking people were known to be able to farm succesfully in dry areas.

colonism-missionary work-cultivating land-trade (if you will, by a once exiled people with Hebrew background): for me it all adds up.

Edited by Van Gorp, 12 January 2013 - 05:28 PM.

[Abramelin]

Van Gorp, on 12 January 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

Not necesseraly: Fenicians were kolonists, missionary priests (see also middleage abbeys) were most active in agriculture and trade.
To make a colony (volks-planting) thrive, you first need to cultivate the land and have even better gains if you can make trade with the products as cheaply produced as possible.
In Roman sources Punic-speaking people were known to be able to farm succesfully in dry areas.

colonism-missionary work-cultivating land-trade (if you will, by a once exiled people with Hebrew background): for me it all adds up.

I mentioned you splitting up the word 'colonist' because of what you said:

"The root 'Gol', 'Col', 'Kol' can be used in a context of kolonisation, settlement, exploitation of foreign land (voluntarely or forced) and slavery is only one very often used approach for that."

And from there you went on.

-

I don't think you should equate the Phoenicians with medieval monks: they were above all known as traders (and quite fanatic at it). Their 'colonies' if you will were most often trading posts along the shores of the Mediterranean which later on indeed developed into real cities.

I'm not saying they couldn't or didn't work the land, just that that was not their main interest.

When I think about the Phoenicians, I often have to think of these guys from the Star Trek series:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferengi
http://en.wikipedia...._of_Acquisition



And even the OLB hints at them being traders: the name of their colony was called "Missellia" or "miss sale" by the Fryans, a trade went wrong, a bad bargain.


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Edited by Abramelin, 12 January 2013 - 06:26 PM.

[Knul]

Abramelin, on 12 January 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

First the part of the OLB that mentions the Gola for the first time:


Inner northlikste herne fon tha Middelsê, thêr lêid en êland by thêre kâd. Nw kêmon hja thaet a kâp to frêjande. Thêrvr waerth ene mêna acht bilêid.

Moder-is rêd waerth wnnen, men Moder sach ra lyast fêr of. Thêrvmbe mênde hju that er nên kwâ an stek, thach as wi aefternêi sâgon ho wi misdên hêde haevon wi thaet êland Missellja hêten. Hiraefter skil blika ho wi thêr to rêde hêde.

Tha Gola, alsa heton tha saendalinga prestera Sydon-is. Tha Gola hêdon wel sjan thet et land thêr skares bifolkad was aend fêr fon thêre Moder wêre.

Translation:

In the northernmost corner of the Middle Sea there lies an island near the coast. They now came and asked to buy that, on which a general council was held.

The mother’s advice was asked, and she wished to see them at some distance, so she saw no harm in it; but as we afterwards saw what a mistake we had made, we called the island Missellia. Hereafter will be seen what reason we had.

The Gola, that's how the missionary priests of Sidon were called, the Gola had well seen that the land there was thinly populated, and was far from the Mother.


Can't help it: that's what the OLB calls them.


And I wouldn't call them 'colonists' either. because the Phoenicians were not known as 'farmers' :

colonize (v.)
1620s, "to settle with colonists," from stem of Latin colonus "tiller of the soil, farmer" (see colony); in sense "to make another place into a national dependency" without regard for settlement there by 1790s (e.g. in reference to French activity in Egypt or British work in India), and probably directly from colony.

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

And who were known as 'priests'?


The society was obviously a caste system, but no one knows what the castes were, although rulers, princes, nobles and elders are all mentioned in Ezra and Nehemiah. All of the colonists will have been of privileged classes, whereas the locals were mainly simple peasants. Judah was a “nation of priests”  implying that everyone in the original temple state were considered as priests (..).

http://askwhy.co.uk/...amentPeriod.php
http://www.biblegate...9:6&version=NIV

.

As I understand the text, the Gauls were both priests (druids) and a folk, which e.g. occupied Britannja and had its own rulers, e.g. in Kerenak. So the Gauls were not a nation of priests like Judah.

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 13 January 2013 - 11:29 PM, said:

As I understand the text, the Gauls were both priests (druids) and a folk, which e.g. occupied Britannja and had its own rulers, e.g. in Kerenak. So the Gauls were not a nation of priests like Judah.

"Gola" became a denomination for a people later on. I do know who  the Gauls were, but the OLB suggests that "Gola" was originally the name for certain priests from Sidon.

[Abramelin]

Golan was the most northerly of the three cities of refuge east of the Jordan River (Deuteronomy 4:43). Manasseh gave this city to the Gershonite Levites (Joshua 21:27). According to the Bible, the Israelites conquered Golan from the Amorites. The city was known to Josephus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan


In Jewish tradition, a Levite is a member of the Hebrew tribe of Levi. When Joshua led the Israelites into the land of Canaan, the Levites were the only Israelite tribe that received cities but were not allowed to be landowners "because the Lord the God of Israel himself is their inheritance" (Deuteronomy 18:2). The Tribe of Levi served particular religious duties for the Israelites and had political responsibilities as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levites


Galilee

According to the Bible, Solomon rewarded Hiram I for certain services by giving him the gift of an upland plain among the mountains of Naphtali. Hiram called it "the land of Cabul". The region takes its name from the Hebrew galil, "district", "circle", a noun which, in the construct state, requires a genitival noun. Hence the Biblical "Galilee of the Nations", Hebrew"galil goyim"(Isaiah 9:1). The "nations" would have been the foreigners who came to settle there, or who had been forcibly deported there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilee

http://www.unexplain...50#entry4208491


The one(s) who wrote the OLB was/were clever enough not to call these priests Levites or Kohen, for it would be too obvious who they really were.

[Knul]

Abramelin, on 14 January 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

"Gola" became a denomination for a people later on. I do know who  the Gauls were, but the OLB suggests that "Gola" was originally the name for certain priests from Sidon.

Most probably the name has been derived from Golan (Lat. Gaulanitis), present day Golan Heights.

[Abramelin]

Yes, that's what I posted in my post before yours.

We did discuss this long ago, as you can see from the link in that same post.

Golan was a city given to the Levites whose main function was to serve particular religious duties.

Golan, or the present Golan Hights is in fact not far away from Sidon, and was once part of Phoenicia or the OLB "Palm Land" (Phoenicia Secunda or Palmyra)

[The Puzzler]

I'll fly in from left field here for a sec, after being off here through the holiday break I havent caught up but thought of the name Golgotha, where Jesus was apparently crucified, named so for the skull shape of the rock.
The name is also CALvary, which is alot like COL, I havent had time to delve though...
The Gola might even equate to mean skull.

Calvary or Golgotha /ˈɡɒlɡəθə/ was, according to the Gospels, a site immediately outside Jerusalem’s walls where Jesus was crucified.
Golgotha is the Greek transcription in the New Testament of an Aramaic term that has traditionally been presumed to be Gûlgaltâ (but see below for an alternative). The Bible translates the term to mean place of [the] skull, which in Greek is Κρανίου Τόπος (Kraníou Tópos), and in Latin is Calvariae Locus, from which the English word Calvary is derived.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvary

Obviously a very old named place -

A spot there is called Golgotha, - of old the fathers' earlier tongue thus called its name, "The skull-pan of a head"

I know Golgotha is not really next to Sidon but found the term an unusual connection.

The “place of a skull” etymology is based on the Hebrew verbal root גלל g-l-l, from which the Hebrew word for skull, גֻלְגֹּלֶת (gulggolet)

gulggolet - golet - sounding more like Gola

Edited by The Puzzler, 16 January 2013 - 02:06 AM.

[The Puzzler]

OR maybe the word 'call' holds the real meaning of what Gola means...
call (v.) Old English ceallian "to call, shout," less common than clipian; replaced by related Old Norse kalla "to cry loudly," from P.Gmc. *kallojanan (cf. Dutch kallen "to talk," Old High German kallon "to call"), from PIE root *gal- "to call, scream, shriek, shout" (cf. Sanskrit garhati "bewail, criticize;" Latin gallus "c***;" Old High German klaga, German Klage "complaint, grievance, lament, accusation;" Old English clacu "affront;" Old Church Slavonic glasu "voice," glagolu "word;" Welsh galw "call"). Related: Called; calling.

http://www.etymonlin...x.php?term=call

Gal - to call, scream, shriek, shout - this one I can see - like roosters/cocks do - make alot of noise.

People of Gallic descent particularly did this going into battle and such. I'm sure priests carried on with alot of this too - the Gola could be a word equating with this.

Gauls could mean 'people who shout, cry loudly, shriek' - like roosters - also Latin gallus.

The Kalla's (Old Norse) would become the Gauls into Latin.

Kalla is also a lot like Kalta, which might have the same base word - talk - since Kalta had that name because she spoke oddly. Maybe she shrieked or called out when she spoke - Kalta - the cryer/caller - Oracles apparently did this too, they shrieked out their strange messages.

Hence the OLB has the Kalta folk also being Gauls...more crying out, make alot of noise types.

Kalta to Gaul imo then works since both words stem from 'talk' words. Kelts and Gauls - both names could come from the word stem of 'talk/call' imo, as well as Kalta's own name.

Edited by The Puzzler, 16 January 2013 - 02:26 AM.

[The Puzzler]

OK.
Gola, if the name was originally from Hebrew seems to mean skull - they may have been named because of a skull, in many forms that fits right in with priests, skullcaps etc.
They became Druids once the name was changed to Fryan.
But the Kalta people became Gauls, and for the reason I gave in my above post.
The Gola name therefore is probably seperate from the etymology of Gaul - but the former Gola (skull preists) now Druids ended up heading them, making it confusing.
The Gauls name would come from the name of Kalta and be entrenched in the word 'call' but have no etymological connection to the word Gola as skull.
imo.
Unless of course, Nordic kalla/call is also related to Hebrew gol - to whit I see the root word 'cell' being the most possible transfer word in both cultures. (cup, skull, cell, hole, opening our mouth etc - anything with a scooped out inside - think scull cups of Skythians)
And I never forget the Gutians appearance in Mesopotamia c. 2200BC, possible Goths according to Julian Oppert and my answers come instantly on how Nordic got into Hebrew in the first place.

Edited by The Puzzler, 16 January 2013 - 02:40 AM.