174 replies to this topic

[Mr Right Wing]

Erix, on 26 December 2011 - 03:03 PM, said:

What do you like?

What do you mean?

[Caesar]

Br Cornelius, on 26 December 2011 - 12:00 PM, said:

America has stopped been a functional country decades ago. If it wasn't been propped up by communist China and Japan it would have folded a long time ago. Overspending on the military and not investing in infrastructure. The Dollar is only the reserve currency because everyone is terrified of the consequences of letting it die of natural causes.

The U.S. is more functional then the EU, China or any other economy its size in the world. the Dollar is the best currency because more nations believe in it. if there is a currency thats close to falling its the Euro.

Br Cornelius, on 26 December 2011 - 12:00 PM, said:

It a country with more people disposed by the capitalist dream going sour on them than anywhere since the collapse of the soviet union.
Watch this space for the inevitable rise of the Corporate fascist superstate - when public discontent finally boils over.

Really? so you think living in China, Russia and the EU gives you a better life style? if you read my posts I said the nation was much better then it is now because of these socialists programs. I'm not saying the country cant be fixed or its worst then other nations because its not.

[Caesar]

Br Cornelius, on 26 December 2011 - 01:35 PM, said:

Of course let us not forget the fate of countries which threaten to call the Dollars bluff;
-Iraq - invaded
-Libya - invaded
Coincidence?

Use our currency/buy our bonds - or else. It starts to look obvious why America spends most of its budget on the military.

Br Cornelius

Was it the U.S. or NATO that invaded?

[Rlyeh]

Mr Right Wing, on 26 December 2011 - 02:42 PM, said:

I hate education most of all. How many American workers make use of high school education? How many actually get to put their college or university education to use? The education system is vastly inefficent. The Government should place limits on who can study each course and select the best for them. The rest should be turned out from school at 12 and have to join the work force.

Better idea, reinstate slavery, these uneducated Americans can be owned by those who have an education to perform menial tasks or used in experimentation. This would also solve the problem of homelessness.

Edited by Rlyeh, 26 December 2011 - 04:34 PM.

[Caesar]

Rlyeh, on 26 December 2011 - 04:33 PM, said:

Better idea, reinstate slavery, these uneducated Americans can be owned by those who have an education to perform menial tasks or used in experimentation. This would also solve the problem of homelessness.

I guess one could claim the thats happening with the 12 million illegals

[Mr Right Wing]

Rlyeh, on 26 December 2011 - 04:33 PM, said:

Better idea, reinstate slavery, these uneducated Americans can be owned by those who have an education to perform menial tasks or used in experimentation. This would also solve the problem of homelessness.

And yet the working class is worse off because of socialism.

They have to pay higher taxes to fund it so the more socialism they want the less money they have. As a working class person wouldnt you be happier instead if all your wages were your own?

Reduced Corporation tax also means businesses become more competitive giving the working class cheaper products and more jobs as exports expand.

Socialism is flawed because its a cache 22 situation.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 26 December 2011 - 05:23 PM.

[Rlyeh]

Mr Right Wing, on 26 December 2011 - 05:22 PM, said:

And yet the working class is worse off because of socialism.

They have to pay higher taxes to fund it so the more socialism they want the less money they have. As a working class person wouldnt you be happier instead if all your wages were your own?

Reduced Corporation tax also means businesses become more competitive giving the working class cheaper products and more jobs as exports expand.

Socialism is flawed because its a cache 22 situation.

Exactly, so slavery is a good thing because slaves don't need to pay taxes, its the owners responsibility.

[Damrod]

I admit I have not read all 6 pages, and I'm not going to get into a moral discussion about it though there are definitely some impacts there as well.  

There was a study out several years ago that predicted that capitalism could not and would not be a long lived system.  By nature it causes money to funnel toward fewer and fewer hands and as less capital is being circulated, the process actually accelerates, the few vacuuming up more and more wealth from a smaller and smaller circulation...which is what we are seeing today.  The study went on to say that there were only a few probable outcome scenarios...autocracy/plutocracy or Oligarchy...or civil war and eventually turning to a socialist/communist system...sorry folks, I hate to say it...but...it appears history does support this theory and speculative guesses on the limited possible outcomes

[Mr Right Wing]

Rlyeh, on 26 December 2011 - 05:31 PM, said:

Exactly, so slavery is a good thing because slaves don't need to pay taxes, its the owners responsibility.

Communism rewards failure by treating all people as equals.
Capitialism rewards ability by giving those that excel higher wages and more power.

People are not slaves in a capitalist society they are slaves in a Communist one. A Communist State underpays those that excel giving them the same wages as the toilet cleaner. Where is the motivation to excel in a Communist State?

I want paying what I'm worth thanks take the Communism off to North Korea. If you want to live in desolation because nobody bothers to excel in the State be my guest but I like my sports car, house, 2 holidays a year and luxuries.

[Mr Right Wing]

Damrod, on 26 December 2011 - 05:56 PM, said:

I admit I have not read all 6 pages, and I'm not going to get into a moral discussion about it though there are definitely some impacts there as well.  

There was a study out several years ago that predicted that capitalism could not and would not be a long lived system.  By nature it causes money to funnel toward fewer and fewer hands and as less capital is being circulated, the process actually accelerates, the few vacuuming up more and more wealth from a smaller and smaller circulation...which is what we are seeing today.  The study went on to say that there were only a few probable outcome scenarios...autocracy/plutocracy or Oligarchy...or civil war and eventually turning to a socialist/communist system...sorry folks, I hate to say it...but...it appears history does support this theory and speculative guesses on the limited possible outcomes

The flaw in your reasoning is that Capital doesnt become concentrated in fewer and fewer hands. Except for recession household incomes increase year after year.

[Damrod]

Mr Right Wing, on 26 December 2011 - 06:27 PM, said:

The flaw in your reasoning is that Capital doesnt become concentrated in fewer and fewer hands. Except for recession household incomes increase year after year.

I disagree.  We both know that statistically ...yes it does....and...we are in a recession so houshold incomes are falling...  The numbers can be found on any website or discussion about the 99% movement...the income figures say it all...they, the wealthiest 1%, have had incomes rise hundreds of percentage points over the last decade and the average income workers wages have been stagnant or actually fallen...so ...yes... wealth is being accumulated/hoarded up by the few...this is not even up for debate.

and... that was not actually my point (as I am not taking moral sides here)...just stating the facts that for Capitalism to work, there has to be a constant recycling of wealth...the "average" citizens have to have money to spend to drive a "consumer based" economy or it stymies and stalls...sound familiar?  If you don't have this recycling/recirculation of wealth, the system eventually collapses in on itself as there is no longer demand for product and service because there is no circulating capitol to buy them with...

[ninjadude]

Mr Right Wing, on 26 December 2011 - 02:42 PM, said:

No it isnt we arent living in 1950's - 80's USA when Capitialism was in full swing. Paying for all the fancy little thinks like health, benefits, education and minimum wage drives up taxes stopping the US from competiting with the Chinese and other countries.

you do realize that all these "fancy little thinks" were in place when we were living in the 1950's-80's when "Capitalism was in full swing"? Maybe you were not alive then. Read some history.

Quote

The Government should place limits on who can study each course and select the best for them. The rest should be turned out from school at 12 and have to join the work force.

And then you advocate a fascist idea.

[MichaelW]

Mr Right Wing, on 26 December 2011 - 02:07 PM, said:

If I ever saw delusions of grandeur this was it lol.

New Zealand GDP is less than £100 billion, its a tiny insignificant country. Its human development level is 5th which is what I think you're getting confused over. HDL means hospitals, schools, infrastructure. It isnt wealth or power.

Socialism is bad in all its forms.

A tiny insiginificant country? We outrank Great Britain and the US in education, quality of life, corruption etc. and consistently do every year. Plus, 1/3 of all global dairy products are generated here. In other words, the butter you put on your toast, the milk in your tea/coffee is probably come from a cow in the Waikato.

And our GDP is, in fact, US$119 billion. So you can't even get facts right.

[Mr Right Wing]

ninjadude, on 26 December 2011 - 08:55 PM, said:

And then you advocate a fascist idea.

Nope thats the way it was here in Britain 100 years ago.

When surprisingly we had the money for 10 aircraft carriers and an empire.

[Mr Right Wing]

MichaelW, on 26 December 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

A tiny insiginificant country? We outrank Great Britain and the US in education, quality of life, corruption etc. and consistently do every year. Plus, 1/3 of all global dairy products are generated here. In other words, the butter you put on your toast, the milk in your tea/coffee is probably come from a cow in the Waikato.

And our GDP is, in fact, US$119 billion. So you can't even get facts right.

If you read my comments I used the £ sign not the $ so pie on your face lol

All nations trade so I dont know what your point is especially as the GDP of New Zealand is tiny. Your per capita income per citizen is well below that of someone in the US or UK.

Probably all that socialism pushing your taxes up and holding back your economy lol.