56 replies to this topic

[pbarosso]

so i dont get it. what is the mystery? is it an art history mystery like a common method to proportion the painting?

[GS1]

pbarosso, on 18 June 2012 - 02:07 AM, said:

so i dont get it. what is the mystery? is it an art history mystery like a common method to proportion the painting?

No, it's a mystery about a secret society of some kind possibly hiding a religious treasure somewhere and using sacred geometry as a treasure map of sorts. incidentally, I found a painting by a Dutch painter, done in 1610-20, which appears to be the basis for the painting owned by Gasc. Like it, it has a ship of the time it was painted instead of an ancient type. Note also the water spraying from the whale's nostrils.

[GS1]

Forgot to mention the painter's name is Adam Willearts. That image is a lot bigger when you click on it. The ships have the same horizontal checker pattern on the stern as in the Gasc painting. A detail which is a little odd is that there are two ducks floating on the large wave just below the whale. Seems a little out of place in a storm.

Edited by GS1, 19 June 2012 - 10:35 PM.

[GS1]

The duck or ducks may be a reference to the chapel of the 3 kings built by Baldassare Ubriachi. His family crest was a duck and it is inlaid on the floor of the chapel. This is in Florence, where the painter Adam Willearts was from.

Quote

Baldassare as patron of the Magi chapel and Gio-
vanni as the heir-apparent of patronal rights at the nunnery of
San Baldassare; Baldassare degli Ubriachi in starting his chapel
of the Three Kings about 1365 followed the devotional lead of
an allied family. If the Baldesi had built a suburban altar where
only cloistered nuns could worship a King, Baldassare Ubriachi now
owned a city chapel where the merchants of Florence could pray
to the Magi.
The building and its ornamentation were finished by 1378,
as can be demonstrated hy a curious iconographic feature unnoticed
by previous scholars. The Ubriachi ducks on the capitals and
tombstone of the chapel, as well as those on the lintel and capitals
of the Chiostro Grande, are identical. But the two large coats
of arms painted so ostentatiously on the cast wall of the chapel
have a distinct addition: these ducks bear a red cross on their
folded white, shield-shaped wings, each cross on its side. The
historian immediately suspects that this variance distinguishes a
Florentine magnate from a popolano: the chapel was done by a
magnate or grande, whose subsequent popolarita was then celebrat-
ed, as such grants commonly were, by the red cross on white
of the popolo on the wall* This hypothesis seems all the more
probable because the popolo motif was also painted above each
of these two ducks, this time as a red cross within a red circle.

...It is their translatio, the bodies of the Kings in a common sarco-
phagus, worshipped by devotees awe-struck at finding the royal
bodies uncorrupted. This scene of translatio may refer to the
legendary movement of the Kings' bodies to Milan from their
earlier resting place in Constantinople, It may also, however, an-
nounce to the world that another Magus, Duke Giangaleazzo
Visconti. has triumphantly "returned* to princely Milan.
Who created this magnificent work of art, so important for
its associations with the history of Milan and the Visconti? Art
historians have generally rejected the earlier idea that Baldassare
Ubriachi was himself the artist, and have suggested as well that
the work came from Baldassare's workshop rather than having
been done on the site."' With the important information from
Baldassarc's will, however, wc are now able to suggest the name
of the master: it was Giovanni di Jacopo Giovanni, master of Bal-
dassare 's works of bone throughout these years and the merchant's
testamentary executor. As both Semper and von Schlosscr have
pointed out, large numbers of Ubriachi ivories in Europe show such
common features that they must have come from set forms."*
Maestro Giovanni was probably the creator of these forms. Yet
in this stupendous triptych of the Certosa, done to commemorate
such an important occasion, maestro Giovanni must have played
the creator to the full.
The theme of this work was Milanese, its entrepreneur was
named Baldassare. Can it be an accident that this was so: that
a Baldassare who had already outfitted a Florentine chapel honor-
ing the Magi, conceivably been associated with their Florentine
procession of 1390. definitely had a relationship with the father
of the emperor-elect who made Giangaleazzo a duke, as well as
with other European monarchs, was chosen to produce this Magian
monument? Perhaps so. Yet there is here in any case an indisput-
able link between the Magi cult in Florence and the one long
established in Milan, the first such definite link scholarship has
been able to show.  Baldassare clegli Ubriachi was certainly the
first Florentine of the time to introduce the Magi theme into
Florentine monuments and perhaps into public life. It remains
to be determined if his early contacts with royalty had inspired
his devotion and his chapel, and if Giangaleazzo was inspired to
hire Ubriachi because of the Florentine chapel and procession.
Only one thing seems clear: our travelling merchant Magus was
an important link in the world of Magian cult and iconography.

Google Books; Church and Community, 1200-1600: Studies in the History of Florence and New ...By Richard C. Trexler

There was apparently a "cult of the magi" in Florence and Milan. Was Poussin involved with this? Who knows? Maybe the treasure is the bodies of the 3 magi which were supposedly kept in one tomb. In Shepherds of Arcadia we see 3 men and a woman in front of a tomb. Maybe the three men represent the 3 magi and the woman represents Mary.



crest image http://giubileo.comu...plesso_5_3c.htm

Edited by GS1, 20 June 2012 - 12:56 AM.

[GS1]

The Adam Willaerts Jonah painting appears to contain at least hexagonal geometry and possibly also the pentagram. In this image you see that the central mast is perfectly vertical and a slanted mast to its right is at the angle of one of the hexagram lines. When that hexagram point is positioned at the end of the slanted mast and the centerline is aligned to the center mast the top point of the hexagram is also right at the top of the mast where the flag starts. Seems an unlikely coincidence. The circle around it also passes perfectly along the whale's snout. The pentagram is not referenced definitively but one line does pass along the head of the man standing on the deck with his arms raised, which a hexagram line also passes through.

Edited by GS1, 20 June 2012 - 03:36 PM.

[GS1]

So we have this "cult of the magi" in Florence and the Chapel of the Magi built by Baldassare Ubriachi whose family crest is a duck, as seen in the painting by Adam Wlliaerts which is clearly the inspiration for the Jonah painting which Francois Gasc belives to have been painted by Poussin. Is there a conncetion between Poussin and Florence? Yes there is;

Quote

Except for a trip to Florence about 1620-1621 and another to Lyons shortly thereafter, Poussin spent the years between about 1616 and 1624 establishing his position in Paris.
http://www.encyclope...as_Poussin.aspx

We also have a drawing of Florence by Poussin;



This tells me that Poussin may have had knowledge of the Cult of the Magi in Florence and may have based his Shepherds paintings on that theme. I do not, however, believe that he painted the Gasc paintings and I'll show you why.

Here's another painting by Willaerts of Jesus Preaching on the Sea of Galilee. The boat is virtually identical in shape to the one in Gasc's Storm on the Sea of Galilee painting.



Here's one by Willaerts son Abraham about the first Dutch war. Note that the flags are the same color as in the Gasc Jonah painting. So that flag color must be a clue to the Gasc painting being connected to Willaerts. This painting below was done in 1652-54, which is when that war happened. The orange/red flags with the cross at the corner must be the flags of the Commonwealth of England, which is who the Dutch were fighting in that war, since they used that cross in their flags. So with the Gasc Jonah painting being strongly linked to the Adam Willaerts Jonah painting and possibly this Dutch War painting by his son Abraham, the Gasc Jonah painting must have been done by somebody who had been in the Netherlands after 1652.

The obvious question arises of how Poussin could have seen these paintings when they were in the Netherlands while he was in Italy or France. This suggests to me that the Gasc paintings were not done by Poussin but by someone who had actually been in the Netherlands at some point in their life. Poussin was also a Catholic while Willaerts was a Protestant who fled France for that very reason, religious persecution by the Catholics. So I must conclude that the Gasc paintings were not done by Poussin, unless he made a secret trip to the Netherlands. Possible but seems unlikely. His life is pretty well documented. There are also paintings by Dutch artist Jan Abrahamsz Beerstraaten with similar type ships and orange/red flags from the same time period such as the one on the Battle of the Sound Wikipedia page.

The red flags are apparently just battle flags indicating that they are engaged in battle. Other countries than England used them as can be seen at the linked page.

Edited by GS1, 21 June 2012 - 03:45 PM.

[GS1]

When I said "at he linked page" I meant a link that I edited out. Couldn't edit out that sentence because the editing period apparently ran out. Just use the Wikipedia search bar to find the Battle of the Sound page. I removed the link because it always went to a different page even though I copied the actual url. Anyway, it seems to me that the Gasc paintings must have been done by a Dutchman rather than a Frenchman.

Edited by GS1, 21 June 2012 - 04:13 PM.

[gasc1988]

it's interesting to  see a boat drawn by Poussin !people say often :Poussin has not painted or drawn boat !it's wrong!


http://aaaahooooohpa...e-13560562.html

Look at my page where i speak about  jules Romain and Brill influences (boats and story ! )

http://www.lesecretd....com/expert.php

for GS1 i dont want answer him but POU and TOU(toulouse is in FRANCE!) and dutch painter it's not serious !!!

[gasc1988]

VERY IMPORTANT CLUE  on one of "parchments".it has been never explained why there was the reference to  Lac de GENESARETH  on the parchment ? it's an exclusive study below ..  this clue is the key of the RLC enigma . In on one of my paintings we see a biblical subject in reference at the lac de GENEASARETH! and it's true the key is AD genesareth as it's explained in this parchment /

http://www.lesecretd...com/arcadie.php

1)The coded parchmentsBelow, an exclusive study, sent this site by Mr. Gerard Papadimopoulos, we thank:Text translation detached from the rest of the message (BLES REDIS SACERDOTIBUS SOLIS) is: The Treasure of Rennes is for insiders.On the other hand, one can see that if we draw a diagonal line starting from the cross, to the right instead of the fourth row just before the word MANDU to the second cross which is on the tenth line continuing towards this diagonal penultimate N the last line, the word ZION. We can deduce that the message has to do with THE PRIORY OF SION. The signature on the message being that of the priory without context.Sign the certificate No. 2 is singular. At first glance this does not sound like much, but if we return this signature, appears once again the word ZION.When the letters A (reversed) and N, their meanings remain unproven (note: one direction?). What we can say is that they seem connected by an arrow imperfect.There are also signs or letters written in small print, if you take these signs for letters and we follow their order in the text, then we discover a new cryptic message: REX MUNDI is REXMUNDI: King of the World.Is this a new key to understanding a new message in the text?In the middle of the text we find the letter A written in uppercase, while all the other "a" is lowercase. A continuing after this, we see another sign, Omega.So we ALPHA and Omega, the beginning and end.Between these two signs, letters shifted up giving us: ARETH.By taking up the other seven letters shifted, we ADGENES. By assembling all this, we find: AD Gennesaret: Towards Genesareth.Genesareth Lake Tiberias or the Sea of ​​Galilee, which holds an important place in the New Testament.By taking down the other letters offset, we obtain: Panis SAL: The bread and salt.Here is a New Key: Towards Genesareth, bread and salt.

  http://www.renneslec...cais/parch2.htm


2)THE SERPENT ROUGE is an “opuscule” on the mystery  RLC .
    it’s an enigmatic book  and it’s one more time a proof of the relation between this
    mystery  and my  paintings . read  this link of my site with these links:
          http://www.light-of-...ts_Treasure.pdf
     http://mysteresdelaude.com/?page_id=51
  http://www.lesecretdepoussin.com/arcadie.php

[GS1]

The preaching from the boat on the same lake, Sea of Galilee/Lake Tiberiasis, is illustrated in the painting by one of the Willaerts above. Maybe adgenesareth refers to that painting. Never know.

Edited by GS1, 07 July 2012 - 08:00 PM.

[gasc1988]

the Willaerts above?????????


and "serpent rouge"????? willaerts painted with astronomy ! and science?stop!!!!
you  don't know the art ; it's not important but you can't  say wrong things and why????

[gasc1988]

......
Barque- La Barque de Saint Pierre: Exit la Grande Ourse. Voici que la casserole devient une embarcation de pêche.

Cartographies célestes
Cartographes
o

Julius Schiller
Coelum Stellarum Christianum, 1627

:

http://www.lesecretd...com/arcadie.php  

http://www.lesecretd...n.com/liens.php  :interview where i explain about grande ourse..

[gasc1988]

These elements return in the world of POUSSIN which draws its wealth from the Greek mythology! Iil resumed(took back) the subjects and the images of the Greek medallions.. POUSSIN had "its" iconography!! interesting parallel  between Jonas and Jason whom I developed in my site..
Draco the marine monster but also the whale.. http://books.google....e jonas&f=false   

   http://www.lesecretd...com/arcadie.php
to translate in english... sorry!!

Marduk et son attribut, le dragon, ]détail d'un cylindre de sceaux en lapis-lazuli, dédicacé à la divinité par le chef babylonien Marduk-zakir-šumi I (v. 854-819)
Le serpent qui est associé à Marduk puis son fils Nabû, comme attribut, a été créé semble t-il bien plus ****, peut-être sous la dynastie chaldéenne (626 - 539), à l'instar du dragon cornu, qui apparaît alors sur les murs de Babylone, en particulier à la porte d'Ishtar (déesse de l'amour et de la guerre, et dans l'avenue processionnelle qu'elle ouvre, ornementées par le roi Nebucadnetsar (Nebucadnezzar, Nabuchodonosor). Nul doute que cette impressionnante exposition a frappé le regard des juifs que ce roi a fait captifs à Babylone (vers 587, II Rois 25:27-30 ) et qui retrouveront la Palestine sous le règne de Cyrus (- 538). Cette longue tradition sumérienne (nous l'avons vu pour le déluge) puis assyrienne a influencé la tradition juive du dragon, qui est appelé en hébreu thannîn (tannin), ce mot désignant parfois le serpent lui-même (Exode 7 : 9, Deutéronome 32 : 33) Bel et le Dragon v. 23). A l'inverse, le nom traditionnel hébreu du serpent, sârâph (peut-être à l'origine du séraphin), est traduit quelquefois par dragon, comme dans Esaïe 14 : 29 (parce qu'il vole?) et 30 : 6. Le dragon est associé, dans l'Ancien Testament, aux cataclysmes : Additions à Esther 1 : 4 et 2 : 6, personnifiant les ennemis deYahveh et de son peuple, comme...Nebucadnetsar (Jérémie 51 : 34). Il continuera de personnifier les représentants du Mal dans l'Apocalypse, sous la forme de l'Antéchrist, et là, nous rejoignons le monde de Beatus, qui connaît le dragon sous sa forme latine, draco, dérivée du grec drakôn (du verbe derkomai, "regarder", "fixer du regard", caractéristique connue de ces reptiles), qu'utilise la version des Septante pour traduire les termes hébreux tannin et Liwyatan (d'une racine hébraïque : tordre, courber) le fameux Léviathan, monstre à plusieurs têtes dans les Psaumes 74 : 14, monstre en sommeil dans Job (3 : 8), animal marin fantastique et joueur dans Psaumes (104 : 26), qui ne permettent pas de faire du léviathan un monstre serpentiforme. Le drakôn grec désigne des serpents géants ou aquatiques, qui souvent étaient gardiens de trésors, tel celui qui gardait le jardin des Hespérides, Ladon, vaincu par Héraklès (Hercule) dans le onzième de ses fameux Douze Travaux ou celui qui protégeait la Toison d'Or, tué par Jason Le mythe du dragon a donc une très longue histoire quand s'en empare la tradition chrétienne, nous le verrons bientôt au travers des illustrations de l'Apocalypse. http://www.lesecretd...com/arcadie.php
   Jason régurgité par le Dragon, coupe attique, 500-450, peinture attribuée à Douris. Cité du Vatican,Museo Gregoriano Etrusco Vaticano, n° 16545. On peut voir, derrière le dragon, la Toison d'Or accrochée à l'arbre donnant les pommes d'or du jardin des Hespérides.

Edited by gasc1988, 15 July 2012 - 06:39 PM.

[itsnotoutthere]

oh god...............

[Likely Guy]

itsnotoutthere, on 15 July 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

oh god...............

That added a lot to the debate.