Bildr Posted July 31, 2011 #1 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Why do i have to pay to live on a planet...I was born on ''I literally have to pay to live. There's no other way around it. I never chose to be born under this government. I never chose to live a life controlled by laws that if not followed would risk all of my freedom. It's not as if someone can choose live off the land like we were made to. In order to do that, you'd have to pay for the land in the first place. We are born into this world with no right to the planet we were born on. Either you live under the government..AND pay them a large part of your own money...or you essentially, die. And we actually think that it is a good system?'' Let the debate start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmpleFyre Posted July 31, 2011 #2 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Try having to pay for living on two different planets. In all seriousness though, it's hard for it to be any other way, unless you don't mind living in a standard of life that's somewhat lower than what most people expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.H. Holmes Posted July 31, 2011 #3 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Society never chose to support you or have you born in it. The world never chose you to be part of it. The government never chose for you to be a burden until you can work to start paying taxes. What do you want? Anarchy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damrod Posted July 31, 2011 #4 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Delta is correct...we have became accustomed to a standard of living and that came from a system of leaders and rulers directing the efforts of the masses toward goals and objectives. Those that lead know the only way to direct people is to control the things they need or want...food, shelter...or money. Century after century, through the millenia...this is how it has been... Perhaps there is a better system...but people fear what they don't understand and those in power aren't going to hand it over anytime soon... Just think, when the Europeans landed in America, the native Americans had no greed. No one owned the land, to them, the land owned you and they lived in harmony with it...just imagine what it would be like if we had adopted such a way of thinking rather than extinguishing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bendy Demon Posted July 31, 2011 #5 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I understand what you are saying, Bildr and to a large degree I agree. HOWEVER.."living off the land" is not easy and is nowhere near as romantic as some like to think. It is even harder to make a living, your whole day will be taken up by things like weeding gardens, harvesting, planting, tilling, feeding animals, slopping out the pens, constantly repairing buildings. There are no white picket fences with cherry pies on the widow sills and no leisurely afternoons being spent drinking lemonade. There will be no time for fun, music, games or anything. I too think our way of life could be better in the sense that it shouldn't such a struggle just to squeak by. I never chose to be here and this world doesn't need me either but I am here and I am stuck on this world for the long haul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.H. Holmes Posted July 31, 2011 #6 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Delta is correct...we have became accustomed to a standard of living and that came from a system of leaders and rulers directing the efforts of the masses toward goals and objectives. Those that lead know the only way to direct people is to control the things they need or want...food, shelter...or money. Century after century, through the millenia...this is how it has been... Perhaps there is a better system...but people fear what they don't understand and those in power aren't going to hand it over anytime soon... Just think, when the Europeans landed in America, the native Americans had no greed. No one owned the land, to them, the land owned you and they lived in harmony with it...just imagine what it would be like if we had adopted such a way of thinking rather than extinguishing it. That isn't exactly true for many Native American societies pre-Columbus. There were actually many instances of battles between tribes for territory and hunting rights. On the Western Plains, pre‐Columbian warfare—before the introduction of horses and guns—pitted tribes against one another for control of territory and its resources, as well as for captives and honor. Indian forces marched on foot to attack rival tribes who sometimes resided in palisaded villages. Before the arrival of the horse and gun, battles could last days, and casualties could number in the hundreds; thereafter, both Plains Indian culture and the character and meaning of war changed dramatically. The horse facilitated quick, long‐distance raids to acquire goods. Warfare became more individualistic and less bloody: an opportunity for adolescent males to acquire prestige through demonstrations of courage. It became more honorable for a warrior to touch his enemy (to count “coup”) or steal his horse than to kill him.Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/native-american-wars-warfare-in-native-american-societies#ixzz1Te2IjaPM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozner Posted July 31, 2011 #7 Share Posted July 31, 2011 "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first." - Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor_Strangelove Posted July 31, 2011 #8 Share Posted July 31, 2011 What do you want? Anarchy? Anarchy is all fun and games until you run out of cheap beer and are forced to put away the Dead Kennedys records in order to make something of your life. Just think, when the Europeans landed in America, the native Americans had no greed. No one owned the land, to them, the land owned you and they lived in harmony with it...just imagine what it would be like if we had adopted such a way of thinking rather than extinguishing it. Err, no. Anyone who paid attention in history class knows that's flat up wrong. I know it's fun to romanticize Native cultures, but it's incorrect, the tribes fought in similar manners and for similar reasons as every other culture on the face of the planet long before colonial powers turned up. Anyway, I digress. Every privilege has to be earned to some extent, even if it is done via other people. What I am saying is yes, you have to work to live in society, but such is your way of giving back for it to provide you with all your needs. If you were to exit civilization right now,what would you be doing right now? Sitting under a tree harmonising with nature? No, you would be scavenging with food and struggling to build and maintain a shelter. Not too much of a stretch from working to buy groceries and pay rent. Face it, human nature hasn't changed, just grown with technology. You can sit and ponder the morality of being born and expected to toil your days away, or you could man up and tell yourself it's better than starving in the woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Posted July 31, 2011 #9 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Posted Today, 09:58 AMI understand what you are saying, Bildr and to a large degree I agree. HOWEVER.."living off the land" is not easy and is nowhere near as romantic as some like to think. It is even harder to make a living, your whole day will be taken up by things like weeding gardens, harvesting, planting, tilling, feeding animals, slopping out the pens, constantly repairing buildings. There are no white picket fences with cherry pies on the widow sills and no leisurely afternoons being spent drinking lemonade. There will be no time for fun, music, games or anything. That's not actually true Ryu, many people who 'live off the land' in third world countries work a shorter day than we, in our western society do. For example, the remote villages in India where they farm, 4-6hrs is a full days work. Of course, market day and the length of time you may have to travel will account for some of that extra time, but they do find alot of time for village activities. Festivals, markets, singing and dancing. The human race working together though...Scary thought! For some... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted July 31, 2011 #10 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Nowadays you pay with time and money, whereas before you paid with time spent on hunting, farming, ect. You pay either way. Which would you rather pay with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paracelse Posted July 31, 2011 #11 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Or you could come to France, claim the some sordid story about your country of origin and the socialists here will make sure you get a check every month, you have a roof over your head, will try to find you a job you will never get because you don't have to do a thing to learn the language, and you will get food for free in a place called restau du coeur (restaurant of the heart). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Ford Posted July 31, 2011 #12 Share Posted July 31, 2011 To the OP, you can be loads more self sufficient. Set up drains and tanks to collect rain water so you do not need to pay your water bill. Set up solar panels or a wind turbine to get electric so you do not need to pay your electric bill. Stop using gas. Buy an air rifle and go out and shoot pigeons and squirrels and stray dogs etc so you have food and do not have go to the shops. Grow vegetables in your garden and set up a hydroponics lab in your basement and loft. Once you have it all set up you will never need money again. Except to pay for tax of course, but you have to pay that to stop the terrorists killing you with weapons of mass destruction or the Nazis trying to take over again. Also you get health care from your tax money. When I travelled around Australia I stayed on small family run farms and they only spent money on petrol and a bit of food, lots of them were mostly self sufficient and and if civilisation ended they could live on thier land with no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ether2 Posted July 31, 2011 #13 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Society never chose to support you or have you born in it. The world never chose you to be part of it. The government never chose for you to be a burden until you can work to start paying taxes. What do you want? Anarchy? hay genius, learn how the world works before ya make statements like that one... good luck love all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.H. Holmes Posted July 31, 2011 #14 Share Posted July 31, 2011 hay genius, learn how the world works before ya make statements like that one... good luck love all And you know how the world works? Please, enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opsis Posted July 31, 2011 #15 Share Posted July 31, 2011 You don't have to pay to live on this planet, you have to pay to be a part of society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bildr Posted July 31, 2011 Author #16 Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) Anarchy is all fun and games until you run out of cheap beer and are forced to put away the Dead Kennedys records in order to make something of your life. Err, no. Anyone who paid attention in history class knows that's flat up wrong. I know it's fun to romanticize Native cultures, but it's incorrect, the tribes fought in similar manners and for similar reasons as every other culture on the face of the planet long before colonial powers turned up. Anyway, I digress. Every privilege has to be earned to some extent, even if it is done via other people. What I am saying is yes, you have to work to live in society, but such is your way of giving back for it to provide you with all your needs. If you were to exit civilization right now,what would you be doing right now? Sitting under a tree harmonising with nature? No, you would be scavenging with food and struggling to build and maintain a shelter. Not too much of a stretch from working to buy groceries and pay rent. Face it, human nature hasn't changed, just grown with technology. You can sit and ponder the morality of being born and expected to toil your days away, or you could man up and tell yourself it's better than starving in the woods. Well, i have learn not to always pay attention to history class...well, at least to make you own decision and you own researches on history. Because a lot of what we learn in class is distorted knowledge. A lot of how Roman/Catholics described Celts, Germanic tribes, Vikings etc... as been distorted. We teach in class that pagan civilizations were dirty barbarians...and did you know what? Pagan Scandinavians(vikings) Germanic tribes, celts and etc were A LOT MORE clean and bath hell more often than the Catholics in the medieval ages. And do you know why? Because Catholics were teach that is was bad to see yourself naked, or else you were sinful! and how do you clean yourself wen you can't be naked? Not much heh!!! Even more, pre-Catholics ''pagan'' of Iceland and a more solid democracy, respected women and had equality in this democracy that took almost a millennium(1000 years) for the women to take back after the catholic domination! Even the Greeks were going preettyyy well before the Romans screw it all! Agriculture, Art, science and maths... Were all flourishing in those era. like another things, yes the Nazis did a lot of horrible things in WW2, but do we teach in schools all the casualty that the American attitude and wars did over the last 65 years? Hell, the USA killed MILLIONS AND MILLIONS more innocents and did a lot more collateral damage that the nazi EVER DID! but do we teach that in classes? NO! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSqtOLfXtSI and about the going suddenly into the wilds... Well yes it is normal that if any of us would try to go on the wild they would get SCREWED or eating by a bear first thing in the morning, and you know why? because we have been made DEPENDENT of technology, we have been made DEPENDANT of the structure of this society. WE are so profound into this, people can't live without their iPods now without their little bottles of calcium destroying coca cola! Technology is suppose to be made to help the quality of life of human beings, not the become the reason to live! ''Who created environment, the social structure, the economic, the religious structure? We. Each one has contributed individually, until it has become collective, and the individual who has helped to create the collective now is lost in the collective, for it has become his mold, his environment." -Jiddu Krishnamurti Edited July 31, 2011 by Bildr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ether2 Posted August 1, 2011 #17 Share Posted August 1, 2011 And you know how the world works? Please, enlighten me. well genius the way this works is if and only if ya at a height of consciousness (knowledge) you would be able to comprehend, and of course with a comment/statement like yours you clearly have no idea/understanding of the worlds workings, so i will not bother, waste of time something you have to workout yaself, but i will show ya how to obtain the knowledge of what ever is in your path, should this be in your path you will obtain it... this and this good luck love all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arglebargle Posted August 1, 2011 #18 Share Posted August 1, 2011 well genius the way this works is if and only if ya at a height of consciousness (knowledge) you would be able to comprehend, and of course with a comment/statement like yours you clearly have no idea/understanding of the worlds workings, so i will not bother, waste of time something you have to workout yaself, but i will show ya how to obtain the knowledge of what ever is in your path, should this be in your path you will obtain it... this and this good luck love all http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoL2ViLiuSQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ether2 Posted August 1, 2011 #19 Share Posted August 1, 2011 ''Who created environment, the social structure, the economic, the religious structure? We. Each one has contributed individually, until it has become collective, and the individual who has helped to create the collective now is lost in the collective, for it has become his mold, his environment." -Jiddu Krishnamurti what ya got to ask is why life is the way it is, emotions equal energy that comes from diversty in religions/beliefs/society etc (confrontations/war etc) all add up to diversty in thought processes, beliefs are of course thought/speech processes if one knows the effect of various process (thoughts etc) that one has/produce(s) can have to someone or part/many whole, you will know what im say'n... if ya associate this with mental attacks etc, you will know around about what i'm get'n at, but on a "legal" (if i can use that word) scale (massive-effects many)... good luck love all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ether2 Posted August 1, 2011 #20 Share Posted August 1, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoL2ViLiuSQ hay genius if one was to go on about life long enough you would see that all ties in together (all things have a cause and effect on each other) so therefore no such thing as a troll... you look good though, quoteing it... but you already knew that din ya ... good luck love all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bildr Posted August 1, 2011 Author #21 Share Posted August 1, 2011 hay genius if one was to go on about life long enough you would see that all ties in together (all things have a cause and effect on each other) so therefore no such thing as a troll... you look good though, quoteing it... but you already knew that din ya ... good luck love all Yep true responsibility is not to pay your bills, but to understand that every thought, every words and every actions have consequences. This universe is like a spider web; every thing is interconnected. Disturb one string and the vibration may be felts all around the web. The same way that if we don't take care of our planet earth, well she won't take care much of us in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arglebargle Posted August 1, 2011 #22 Share Posted August 1, 2011 hay genius if one was to go on about life long enough you would see that all ties in together (all things have a cause and effect on each other) so therefore no such thing as a troll... you look good though, quoteing it... but you already knew that din ya ... good luck love all That was a staggeringly stupid post. Because all things have cause and effect, there's no such thing as a troll? Or was that not what you tried to say, because if not then you should probably work on expressing yourself better. See, the thread started with someone asking why they had to pay to live on a world they never asked to be born into. Then someone explained that nobody asked this person to be born into the world either, so in order to live in society you have to pay. Then you said that this person doesn't understand how the world works, implying you do, and it doesn't work the way that person thought - and that this is relevant to the topic. Then this person said: Oh really, enlighten me as to how the world works, then. Since you seem to know. Then you basically said "I know but I won't tell you. You're not wise enough. Blablabla consciousness, more new age cliches. blablabla, snore." That reads like a troll to me. And your latest post hasn't changed my opinion in the slightest. What does cause and effect have to do with the topic? How does the idea that all events are connected through cause and effect which can be traced back to a common cause somehow prove you're not trolling? It makes absolutely no sense, so either you're trolling or you're deeply delusional and should probably look into some medical treatment of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ether2 Posted August 1, 2011 #23 Share Posted August 1, 2011 That was a staggeringly stupid post. Because all things have cause and effect, there's no such thing as a troll? Or was that not what you tried to say, because if not then you should probably work on expressing yourself better. See, the thread started with someone asking why they had to pay to live on a world they never asked to be born into. Then someone explained that nobody asked this person to be born into the world either, so in order to live in society you have to pay. Then you said that this person doesn't understand how the world works, implying you do, and it doesn't work the way that person thought - and that this is relevant to the topic. Then this person said: Oh really, enlighten me as to how the world works, then. Since you seem to know. Then you basically said "I know but I won't tell you. You're not wise enough. Blablabla consciousness, more new age cliches. blablabla, snore." That reads like a troll to me. And your latest post hasn't changed my opinion in the slightest. What does cause and effect have to do with the topic? How does the idea that all events are connected through cause and effect which can be traced back to a common cause somehow prove you're not trolling? It makes absolutely no sense, so either you're trolling or you're deeply delusional and should probably look into some medical treatment of some sort. not out to change ya opinion, ya see it or ya dont... what sort of medical treatment... whats ya signature a "game" ya play or something ... good luck love all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor_Strangelove Posted August 1, 2011 #24 Share Posted August 1, 2011 well genius the way this works is if and only if ya at a height of consciousness (knowledge) you would be able to comprehend, and of course with a comment/statement like yours you clearly have no idea/understanding of the worlds workings, so i will not bother, waste of time something you have to workout yaself, but i will show ya how to obtain the knowledge of what ever is in your path, should this be in your path you will obtain it... this and this good luck love all Wait, what? All you've done in this thread is say people don't understand how the world works. Do you want to clarify some more, specifically, what it has to do with the OP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kismit Posted August 1, 2011 #25 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Could we please remember to discuss the actual topic and not lower ourselves to insults, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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