368 replies to this topic

[Seeker79]

Professor T, on 12 January 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

You think you know, but indeed, in your heart, you walk on one side? so you dont know. Sweet as..

Hmmmmmmmm, am no expert but it occurs to me that knowing if a non-physical presence is part of ones Ego or a spirit/entity couldn't be determined or seperated by walking on both sides.. But could be determined and separated by standing on the line or becomming the line, or in the very least, knowing where the line is in relation to Ego & eternal factors.

Not if there is no line to walk on or the line is so large and fuzzy it's impossible to discern. Skirting the edges of both sides of the fuzzyness is the closest thing you will come to standing on the line. But in this case you are still in both pastures.

Then there is always the matter of personal confirmation. Events that hint dramatically at which side of the line is more true.

A couple of not so hypothetical examples:

In spirit I fly to a location sit on a scyscrapper and observe the town. Afterwards I hop on my computer take google earth to the exact location using 3d buildings and position myself with the exact same view. I have never been to this city before yet the view is not similar.... It's exact. Besides the changeling and moving traffic during the journey. One side) it is exactly what it spears to be. The other) it's possible that at some point in my life I saw a movie where Somone looked over this very same view and it is eternally stores in my memory, and was manifested in a semi dream state.

A spirit guide pulls me to an abondoned Waikiki. Besides a very occasional car and police car. Strange i was thinking. I have ben to Waikiki and its always busy even late at night. Upon returning to normal reality I find out Waikiki has been abandon because of a luming tsunami from Japan. Coincidence? Mabey, or us it exactly what it spears to be. I can go on, I have had numerous confirmation experiences right up to direct communication about information about Somone that needs help that turns out to be entirely accurate. I have a choice these things are exactly what they apear to be, or the workings of of deep mental processes and coincidences. I cannot rule out either because I just know better. There are severe flaws and holes in the 'logical' assessments that make them no longer logical, and yet I also know that I'm a prisoner to my own perceptions. From my perspective it seems clear, but the ego is a funny thing if you let it have the the wheel, there is no telling where you might end up. I like to consider myself in a state of superposition ready to manifest wherever I need to be for the moment. It might be at work teaching kids kicks, punches, throws, and chokes or zinging through space to have a conversation with whatever intelligence is hanging out around the Pleiades, or writing a letter to some poor teenager that is cutting herself because she can't stop seeing some of the things that I do and it's eating her alive because no one believes her. The latter is a very precarious place to be, because being a fence straddler I have to acknowledge what she is experiencing yet gently guid her towards people that can help. A manifestation of my ego on the edge of the quarter.

Anyway... Fun stuff to talk about anyway.

[Professor T]

Seeker79, on 12 January 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

Not if there is no line to walk on or the line is so large and fuzzy it's impossible to discern. Skirting the edges of both sides of the fuzzyness is the closest thing you will come to standing on the line. But in this case you are still in both pastures.

Then there is always the matter of personal confirmation. Events that hint dramatically at which side of the line is more true.

A couple of not so hypothetical examples:

In spirit I fly to a location sit on a scyscrapper and observe the town. Afterwards I hop on my computer take google earth to the exact location using 3d buildings and position myself with the exact same view. I have never been to this city before yet the view is not similar.... It's exact. Besides the changeling and moving traffic during the journey. One side) it is exactly what it spears to be. The other) it's possible that at some point in my life I saw a movie where Somone looked over this very same view and it is eternally stores in my memory, and was manifested in a semi dream state.

A spirit guide pulls me to an abondoned Waikiki. Besides a very occasional car and police car. Strange i was thinking. I have ben to Waikiki and its always busy even late at night. Upon returning to normal reality I find out Waikiki has been abandon because of a luming tsunami from Japan. Coincidence? Mabey, or us it exactly what it spears to be. I can go on, I have had numerous confirmation experiences right up to direct communication about information about Somone that needs help that turns out to be entirely accurate. I have a choice these things are exactly what they apear to be, or the workings of of deep mental processes and coincidences. I cannot rule out either because I just know better. There are severe flaws and holes in the 'logical' assessments that make them no longer logical, and yet I also know that I'm a prisoner to my own perceptions. From my perspective it seems clear, but the ego is a funny thing if you let it have the the wheel, there is no telling where you might end up. I like to consider myself in a state of superposition ready to manifest wherever I need to be for the moment. It might be at work teaching kids kicks, punches, throws, and chokes or zinging through space to have a conversation with whatever intelligence is hanging out around the Pleiades, or writing a letter to some poor teenager that is cutting herself because she can't stop seeing some of the things that I do and it's eating her alive because no one believes her. The latter is a very precarious place to be, because being a fence straddler I have to acknowledge what she is experiencing yet gently guid her towards people that can help. A manifestation of my ego on the edge of the quarter.

Anyway... Fun stuff to talk about anyway.

Fun Stuff alright!!

Sorry, but...
Again, this is kind of vague and not telling me anything..
In my experience with Ego, true self, and foreign entities the Line between has always been quite defined.. Yes it widens and get's fuzzier the deeper to dive into the rabbit hole, but if one dives so deep that one looses all perspective of any form of self then one must then ask yourself "what is the point? What can I learn from this?"

The line between Ego and true or higher self's is the hardest to cross in my experience.. Actually, if I were going to plot it on an onion graph it would be a wall, not a line.. Only though Meditation can that wall be lowered and with some difficulty can it be crossed (or perhaps the line becomes blurred enough to cross).. But as far as identifying foreign aspects, Sprits, Entities... These (with some confirmation from others) I've been able to identify as not beonging to my Ego or Higher self..

Prisoner to perception?
If I percieved some of the comments in this thread with my old Ego, then I would probably be in a lot of trouble right now.. As it is, I'm not a prisoner to my perceptions.. My Ego is not in control of them, I shift my perceptions around and choose the best angle to view a topic or subject or opinion.. Sometimes I choose to percieve from my Ego, sometimes I'm surprised to find that other peoples perceptions are much better than mine.. It's not that my perceptions are a free-floating spirit.. lol.. It's that my perceptions are more open than they used to be, and are not controlled by ego.

Edited by Professor T, 12 January 2013 - 10:26 PM.

[Professor T]

Star of the Sea, on 12 January 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Hi Prof T,

I particularly like Jung’s theories on the ‘Persona’. I think we all  ‘put on a mask’ to hide ‘our true self. Very few people are able to suppress their Ego's. When we drop the mask and stop hiding a really important part of of our true nature then we are actually being more honest with ourselves and to others. It’s very liberating taking off the mask and in essence that’s who we really are.  Jung’s theories on the ‘collective consciousness’ is bang on in my opinion. We are all ‘connected’ somehow. I do however, have a favourite Psychologist and that is Gerard Egan and he resonates with me the most.  I incorporate Jung and Egan with his person-centred approach but also work with other Psychologist’s theories but there are too many to name.

Hmmmmmm....
The more you mention Jung the more I like it and gravitate towards it.. Perhaps I was wrong in describing myself as leaning towards Freudian thinking, afterall, it was over a decade ago when I did a bit of study in psychology..

I still feel though that Ego is a false center.. People are not born with an Ego..

Love this song btw, It seems to capture my feelings on ego and self.

[Twin Personalities]

interesting... I would like to participate as well,
about my own ego, I am the kind of person who would like to talk anything straight,
if someone is talking rubbish and if I see that, i'll mostly try to correct that,
in general i'm a quiet/lurker type, always analyzing the moment and trying to do whats right
i'm a totally awkward person when it comes to philosophy and most of you would probably have noticed that.
when it comes to dialogues, I mostly analyze what is said as well and that is annoying since I do it unconscious
and by doing so i always pick things up an other way then normal people would do, and when i'm talking there's
always a 50% chance that I kind of back down from something because of the consequences that would follow,

so, what do you say prof?
cat.

Edited by Cataclysmic faith, 13 January 2013 - 12:57 PM.

[Seeker79]

Professor T, on 13 January 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

Hmmmmmm....
The more you mention Jung the more I like it and gravitate towards it.. Perhaps I was wrong in describing myself as leaning towards Freudian thinking, afterall, it was over a decade ago when I did a bit of study in psychology..

I still feel though that Ego is a false center.. People are not born with an Ego..

Love this song btw, It seems to capture my feelings on ego and self.

Jung was a student of Freud. He got p***ed off that Jung spoke out against his fixation on sexuality, then they parted ways. It's an interesting story.

Wow I just found out there is a movie. I can't vouch for its Acuracy though. But Kira knightly is lovely to watch.

[Professor T]

Cataclysmic faith, on 13 January 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

interesting... I would like to participate as well,
about my own ego, I am the kind of person who would like to talk anything straight,
if someone is talking rubbish and if I see that, i'll mostly try to correct that,
in general i'm a quiet/lurker type, always analyzing the moment and trying to do whats right
i'm a totally awkward person when it comes to philosophy and most of you would probably have noticed that.
when it comes to dialogues, I mostly analyze what is said as well and that is annoying since I do it unconscious
and by doing so i always pick things up an other way then normal people would do, and when i'm talking there's
always a 50% chance that I kind of back down from something because of the consequences that would follow,

so, what do you say prof?
cat.

Hi Cataclysmic faith..
Yep, Ego is very interesting.. The more you understand it in yourself, the more you understand others imo..

You have a fairly good grasp on your Ego.   but only because it has been attacked and your's has been manipulated and hurt before.
You place importance on analysis of other peoples words, thoughts & feelings because you have learned the hard way that people can be easily manipulated this way.  Also, in daily life, you think more about the past and the future than the moment you are in.. You are nearly always in fight or flight mode, that is to say that the hurt/damaged part of your ego is contantly on the edge..

Am I right?

[Star of the Sea]

Professor T, on 13 January 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

Mmmm....
The more you mention Jung the more I like it and gravitate towards it.. Perhaps I was wrong in describing myself as leaning towards Freudian thinking, after all, it was over a decade ago when I did a bit of study in psychology..

I still feel though that Ego is a false center.. People are not born with an Ego..

Love this song with, It seems to capture my feelings on ego and self.

Hi Prof T,

Nice song!

What Jung believed is that our 'ego' is the centre of consciousness, whereas the 'self' is the 'centre' of the 'total personality' which includes consciousness, the unconscious and the ego. So even though he put our 'ego' at the centre of 'self', 'ego' is only a contained smaller part of the whole, aka our  'self'. To me is appears that 'self' should be far more important to our 'psyche' than the 'ego'. I'm in agreement with you that we are not born with an 'ego' as Jung believed too,  but sadly our 'ego's' do seem to be at the centre of most peoples psyche and I suppose that's why Jung put it at the centre. And if that doesn't hurt your head....... then I don't know what would

Edit to add: I tried to remove video link Prof T to tidy up the post but for some reason it wouldn't let me! So apologies to all!

Edited by Star of the Sea, 13 January 2013 - 08:33 PM.

[Twin Personalities]

Professor T, on 13 January 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

Hi Cataclysmic faith..
Yep, Ego is very interesting.. The more you understand it in yourself, the more you understand others imo..

You have a fairly good grasp on your Ego.   but only because it has been attacked and your's has been manipulated and hurt before.
You place importance on analysis of other peoples words, thoughts & feelings because you have learned the hard way that people can be easily manipulated this way.  Also, in daily life, you think more about the past and the future than the moment you are in.. You are nearly always in fight or flight mode, that is to say that the hurt/damaged part of your ego is contantly on the edge..

Am I right?

indeed, I've been hurt several times, trying to do whats right, after those times passed I tried to keep my self aware of whats happening and
trying to stay calm in every situation, well that's kind of it, everyone is a puzzle and everyone has its own fitting pieces,

thank you.

[Professor T]

Purifier, on 12 January 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

Ooh! Ooh! I have got to take a crack at this as well, Prof T. Let's see:

The dragon resembles Ouija's exotic personality and also a taste for the exotic as well; could be specifically for things of the oriental nature. Could also mean she feels herself as being like a empress. (sounds like a trait of the Leo)

Foghorn Leghorn yelling at Chickenhawk resembles her intolerance to specific behavior or actions, impatient with
ignorance. Specifically there are some things people do, that really p***es her off to no end. Or sometimes she
can become irritated, easily provoked into anger, possibly moody. (sounds like another trait of the Leo, btw)

The ballerina resembles Ouija seeing herself as being graceful, carrying herself with class, dignity, having
occupational prestige. Or just simply having a elegant personality. (that can be a Leo trait, as well)

And there you go, probably none of it is right. But I tryed, anyway.

  Did you base this assesment on Astology or Ego?
Was very good btw..

ouija ouija, on 12 January 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

That's very good Purifier! (Not so good Prof. T. )
I do see myself as regal in some way, which is absolutely ludicrous if you observe me IRL ..... it's pure ego! I'm not into oriental things particularly, it's just that I was born in a Chinese year of the Dragon and that describes me very accurately. For me there are two types of dragon that I 'channel' at different times: there's the one in the photo above who is colourful and loud and flashy but is very fragile and only made of paper(I'm trying to avoid using the word 'shallow' here!). Then there's the one in the heavens who chases(indeed, sometimes briefly holds), the Pearl .... protects it too.

The Foghorn Leghorn thing: nothing to add there .... you got it spot on !

As for the ballerina, well, I've been in love with ballet since the first time I was taken to a live performance, aged about 9 ....... that world onstage is where I have always wanted to live. Why? no-one speaks and there is always lovely music playing! To some extent I am always partly(in my head) in that world ........ completely on my own, gracefully dancing en pointe. (This is also laughable if you know me IRL!).

8 out of 10 Purifier

you have an awesome grasp on your own Ego.. But I wonder who is in control most of the time?
The reagalness and the Ballet kind of suggests that you spend more time being entertained by ego than actually experiencing life?
Or is it a case of ego masking reality or defending you from reality?

Edited by Professor T, 14 January 2013 - 08:07 PM.

[Purifier]

ouija ouija, on 12 January 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

That's very good Purifier! (Not so good Prof. T. )
I do see myself as regal in some way, which is absolutely ludicrous if you observe me IRL ..... it's pure ego!  I'm not into oriental things particularly, it's just that I was born in a Chinese year of the Dragon and that describes me very accurately. For me there are two types of dragon that I 'channel' at different times: there's the one in the photo above who is colourful and loud and flashy but is very fragile and only made of paper(I'm trying to avoid using the word 'shallow' here!). Then there's the one in the heavens who chases(indeed, sometimes briefly holds), the Pearl .... protects it too.

The Foghorn Leghorn thing: nothing to add there .... you got it spot on !

As for the ballerina, well, I've been in love with ballet since the first time I was taken to a live performance, aged about 9 ....... that world onstage is where I have always wanted to live. Why? no-one speaks and there is always lovely music playing! To some extent I am always partly(in my head) in that world ........ completely on my own, gracefully dancing en pointe. (This is also laughable if you know me IRL!).

8 out of 10 Purifier

You did a good job with pictures too, btw. Thanks for doing that, it was fun, Ouija.

Professor T, on 14 January 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

  Did you base this assesment on Astology or Ego?
Was very good btw.

Well not really, but then again somewhat. Honestly for the most part, it was just that I could relate to the pictures she posted. Specifically the top two (except for the ballernia...lol), kinda describes my old ego; which of course I still have btw - hard to get completely rid of it. And I thought maybe she was a Leo, as well, since I am. I just know some Leo's exhibt that kind of behaviour pattern, especially the Foghorn Leghorn intolerence to ignorance, which I was really bad about in my youth. (Lol, the nerve of me, what made me think I was so much better. My ego, of course.)

When you know yourself from a self deep observation, you tend to know other people who act like or similar to you because they exhibt those same behaviour patterns and you understand them better. I think there is a lot more to that old Greek aphorism: "Know thyself" then what is traditionaly explained. Opened a lot more insight and perception for me, when I started observing myself from outside myself, with that particular aphorism.

[Seeker79]

Professor T, on 12 January 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

Fun Stuff alright!!

Sorry, but...
Again, this is kind of vague and not telling me anything..
In my experience with Ego, true self, and foreign entities the Line between has always been quite defined.. Yes it widens and get's fuzzier the deeper to dive into the rabbit hole, but if one dives so deep that one looses all perspective of any form of self then one must then ask yourself "what is the point? What can I learn from this?"

The line between Ego and true or higher self's is the hardest to cross in my experience.. Actually, if I were going to plot it on an onion graph it would be a wall, not a line.. Only though Meditation can that wall be lowered and with some difficulty can it be crossed (or perhaps the line becomes blurred enough to cross).. But as far as identifying foreign aspects, Sprits, Entities... These (with some confirmation from others) I've been able to identify as not beonging to my Ego or Higher self..

Prisoner to perception?
If I percieved some of the comments in this thread with my old Ego, then I would probably be in a lot of trouble right now.. As it is, I'm not a prisoner to my perceptions.. My Ego is not in control of them, I shift my perceptions around and choose the best angle to view a topic or subject or opinion.. Sometimes I choose to percieve from my Ego, sometimes I'm surprised to find that other peoples perceptions are much better than mine.. It's not that my perceptions are a free-floating spirit.. lol.. It's that my perceptions are more open than they used to be, and are not controlled by ego.

Indeed prof. But you could not have asked the question without diving so deep. If we are talking about dissolution the point becomes contrast. Self realization needs a canvass.

Where is the line defined? It may be that spirits may be something else,

[Seeker79]

Seeker79, on 15 January 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

Indeed prof. But you could not have asked the question without diving so deep. If we are talking about dissolution the point becomes contrast. Self realization needs a canvass.

Where is the line defined? It may be that spirits may be something else,

Hmmmm I think I dozed off last night.

Indeed prof. But you could not have asked the question without diving so deep. If we are talking about dissolution the point becomes contrast. Self realization needs a canvass.

Where is the line defined? What exactly is higher self? You see I have always thought the descriptions of these things were a bit vague. I have heard that the higher self is like god, or just the universal spirit, or a timeless soul that maintaines its awareness on levels of existence that is unique to each of us. Im not so sure as others seem.

I tend to agree about spirits, I have close relationships with a few. But it's in my nature to question the nature of all things. For example I am convinced shadow is an aspect of myself. If shadow is then why not the angel? Let's be straight I go with my gut in these things, so I don't think she is, but how can anyone really know. All one can do, mr walkers style, is to apply the same logic you do with any other kind of relationship. It works for me. Still, it's usefull and prudent to maintain an awareness that standard logic may not always apply.

You can change your perspective, I think that's what your were referring to, but you can only decipher what you experience. Your inputs are the key to your world.

[Sherapy]

Professor T, on 13 January 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

Hmmmmmm....
The more you mention Jung the more I like it and gravitate towards it.. Perhaps I was wrong in describing myself as leaning towards Freudian thinking, afterall, it was over a decade ago when I did a bit of study in psychology..

I still feel though that Ego is a false center.. People are not born with an Ego..

Love this song btw, It seems to capture my feelings on ego and self.

For me, I do not take sides, I try and keep in mind that there are many approaches and theories in Psychology. I think Jung and Freud made major contributions to the understanding of Psychology, both have ideas that have stood the test of time and both have ideas that have been discarded, replaced with current understandings.

[ouija ouija]

Professor T, on 14 January 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

you have an awesome grasp on your own Ego.. But I wonder who is in control most of the time?
The reagalness and the Ballet kind of suggests that you spend more time being entertained by ego than actually experiencing life?
Or is it a case of ego masking reality or defending you from reality?

I suppose my ego does mask reality for me, to some degree in my personal life(and I am very grateful for that!), but on a wider perspective I would say no, it doesn't.
There's an awful lot going on in my head most of the time, and I guess that's where my attention is most of the time ....... in that sense I am being 'entertained' by my ego, although my thoughts may be on global subjects.

Purifier, on 15 January 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

You did a good job with pictures too, btw. Thanks for doing that, it was fun, Ouija.
Well not really, but then again somewhat. Honestly for the most part, it was just that I could relate to the pictures she posted. Specifically the top two (except for the ballernia...lol), kinda describes my old ego; which of course I still have btw - hard to get completely rid of it. And I thought maybe she was a Leo, as well, since I am. I just know some Leo's exhibt that kind of behaviour pattern, especially the Foghorn Leghorn intolerence to ignorance, which I was really bad about in my youth. (Lol, the nerve of me, what made me think I was so much better. My ego, of course.)
When you know yourself from a self deep observation, you tend to know other people who act like or similar to you because they exhibt those same behaviour patterns and you understand them better. I think there is a lot more to that old Greek aphorism: "Know thyself" then what is traditionaly explained. Opened a lot more insight and perception for me, when I started observing myself from outside myself, with that particular aphorism.

Oh come on, Purifier, you're amongst friends ...... you can confess to an 'inner ballerina' here!
I am in fact Cancer but have Leo rising. And what do you mean 'intolerance to ignorance'? Some b*ggars just need to be told what's what, and told it in no uncertain terms! hahaha!

[eight bits]

Sheri

Quote

For me, I do not take sides, I try and keep in mind that there are many approaches and theories in Psychology. I think Jung and Freud made major contributions to the understanding of Psychology, both have ideas that have stood the test of time and both have ideas that have been discarded, replaced with current understandings.

Jung embraced the open-ended and ogoing nature of science, including that the progress of knowledge would inevitably overrule him on occasion. Jung always ackowledged his debts to Freud, especially for having detected the real operation of something of which we are unconscious (an extraordinary intellectual feat, when you think about it).

@8ty (Thank you for defending my ego honor),  - Da nada

Prof T

Quote

People are not born with an Ego.

People can't hold their heads up at birth, etiher. For all the mammals, and for us more than many, life in the air-breathing world is a second gestation for quite a while. Eventually, though, things come together.

Star

Quote

sadly our 'ego's' do seem to be at the centre of most peoples psyche and I suppose that's why Jung put it at the centre. And if that doesn't hurt your head....... then I don't know what would

... but it wasn't supposed to stay there; kind of like our heads as babies. Time passes, and we start to be able to move the head and take a look around. After that, it still takes a while to realize that what's going on behind the direction we're currently looking in can be important, too, and very easy to forget sometimes that anything's even there. Mirrors can be downright shocking, too.

We aren't born with an ego, as Prof T reminds us, and we all, along with Jung, seem to agree. We aren't born with a self, either. The difference is that an ego will emerge, while a self will have to be built. Not of all us will have one, and maybe none of us will ever have a complete one.

The self is something we have to build, around a center, and in that center there is no thing.

What clearer blueprint could any builder possibly ask for?

Quote

  I incorporate Jung and Egan with his person-centred approach but also work with other Psychologist's theories but there are too many to name.

My own second favorite is another Jungian, Marie Louise von Franz. R.D. Laing would be my favorite among the not consciously ( ) Jungians, although I have no particular involvement with the clinical side of things.

Seeker

Quote

Wow I just found out there is a movie. I can't vouch for its Acuracy though. But Kira knightly is lovely to watch.

Yes, Keira is easy on the eyes. The movie is historical, however nobody knows the actual crucial private particulars of Jung's relationship with Sabina Spielrein. It depends on what you want to read into some letters between Jung and Freud and some of her own personal papers, found posthumously, which included selected correspondence with both men. The movie is one "plausible past" with a Jung-friendly tilt. Other pasts are possible, too.

It is generally agreed, however, that whatever happened in this specific instance, Mrs. Jung was very patient, and Carl gave her much to be patient about in his dealings with other women.