sslama, on 18 January 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:
Hi Hazzard, Again, I respectfully disagree with much of your thoughts.
Hi sslama As you have answered the questions in my post, I will assume that you have simply got names mixed up.
sslama, on 18 January 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:
Many of today’s "modern" medical tools and techniques...including prescription drugs and pregnancy tests...can, in fact, be traced back over 5,000 years. Every temple possessed a very well equipped laboratory in which medicines were prepared and stored. It’s well known that Egyptian medicine was highly advanced for it’s time. Prosthetics, such as artificial toes and eyeballs, were also used. Cairo museum (which was the most fascinating museum I've ever visited) has a collection of surgical instruments, including scalpels, scissors, copper needles, forceps, spoons, lancets, hooks, probes and pincer which I saw. A collection of 37 instruments is engraved on a wall in the temple of Kom-Ombo (2nd century BC).
They can be traced yes, I agree with that, traced being the operative word here. It is not quite the same thing though. This is what some ancient instruments look like:
Not quite the same as
But to be expected with development.
The people of Ancient Egypt made several major medical discoveries and began treating diseases in a physical manner alongside older spiritual cures.The Egyptians did not perform major surgery as conducted today they did make major developments in surgical knowledge and practice.Egyptian physicians are known to have performed some minor surgical operations however. The Papyrus Edwin Smith informs us of methods used to treat dislocated bones
LINK - Ancient Egyptian Medicine 3- Medical Discoveries
Alongside the medical practises, superstitious incantations were chanted as part of the treatment. I do not understand how you do not see this as an obvious indicator that we were still very much in infancy, and dabbling with ideas. Medicine worked. and it is still around today, appealing to gods did not, so it is gone. Chinese medecine, Indian Medicine, Egyptian Medicine and surgeries all began roughly in the same period - about 5-6,000 years ago, yet separated by oceans, indicating a new phase in mans evolutionary development. All countries that had taken and academic path were starting to think about the same thing, and becoming aware of the world around us. Hunter gathering was coming to an end, societies with compassion and benevolence would naturally turn to medicine.
sslama, on 18 January 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:
The Edwin Smith Papyrus contains a list of instruments, including lint, swabs, bandage, adhesive plaster (x-formed), support, surgical stitches and cauterization.
It's not the only one, in addition to the The Edwin Smith Papyrus there is the The Ebers Papyrus and the the Kahun Gynecological Papyrus. Again, indicating an multiple effort achieved by the thoughts of many men and into specialised areas. Not a sudden development.
LINK - Medicien in Ancient Egypt
sslama, on 18 January 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:
Recently, American researchers have described a 23 cm screw, tying the thigh and calf bones, fixed into a mummy dating back to the 6th century BC.
But nobody can say if it was fixed in place before, or after death. It could be part of the embalming process, Mummies were well looked after, we we are lucky to know.
sslama, on 18 January 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:
An inscription in the tomb of Ipujy, an architect of the 19th dynasty (1300 BC) shows the physician reducing a dislocated joint. The procedure is exactly similar to the modern “Kocher’s technique” orthopedics use today. The diagnosis of sciatic pain was well described in the Edwin Smith Papyrus...this method of examination is what medical students today know as “Lassauge’s test”. Joint pain, internal medicine, brain surgery, all things the ancients understood as well as we do today and treated it properly.
Not as well, not by a long shot. Tutankhamen still managed to die of an infection. Emil Theodor Kocher is not simply known for on technique, he is also known for his work in the physiology, pathology and surgery of the Thyroid. None of which was equalled by ancient Egypt. As per my signature, Newton said that our perspective is greater when we stand on the shoulder of giants. And that is what we are seeing, men working form older records, improving on technique, rediscovering practices, there is nothing sudden about it.
sslama, on 18 January 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:
I visited Australia….and attended a very informative talk on how the Aboriginals (fascinating people) handed down their information through stories in the stars. The stars are their books...telling them how to live. That way their information lasts forever…these stories are a link to their history. Like I said before, all cultures throughout the world believe Gods from the heavens came down and gave them information to make their lives easier. And they have written it down or told the stories using the stars in the night sky.
You may have attended a talk, but it is not quite the same as listening to an Elder.
Indigenous Culture here does not traditionally share stories. My Niece on my wife's side spent quite a few years working at Batchelor Uni here in Australia on recording, and restoring surviving languages. Historical record is kept orally, and stories are considered a thing of value amongst this indigenous, not to be freely shared. They can be traded burt not ever given away. You would have received a basic outline of the Dreamtime as has been filtered down. The entire version is well beyond myself, but what I do know is filled with tales of Magafauna such as is seen in the foffil record, not spacemen. The spirits are a completely different concept, coming form both over and under, it's a broader brush than considering "a star" it's more like considering the entire Milky Way an living breathing thing, a God in the sky.
sslama, on 18 January 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:
Etched into a rock is a human like figure seated in an airborne vehicle. If this isn't a description of an ancient astronaut then what does it mean?
This is where I feel you cross the line, and show great disrespect toward other people, culture, and history.
What could it be indeed. A Head dress for a ceremony yoiu and I might never be aware of. A healing process, an indicator of a great hunter, the sun rising, a drug induced hallucination as the Aztecs and Inca were famous for, and artitistic interpretation of how the sun got in the sky, a million things.
Our narrow modern view cannot possibly account for the process that brought man to the technological wonder of today. Each time a piece of this history is tainted, it is lost. As such interpretation is irreparable vandalism, and extraordinarily selfish in my opinion as one gives no thought to not only the real record, but all those you rob from ever learning the true story. I think if people have such thoughts. they should pursue such personally, and not taint out fragile historical record. It's a crime the way I see it.
sslama, on 18 January 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:
As far as the Egyptians, and other ancient cultures building structures with shear backbreaking labour….the up-to-date information tells us the cutting of the stone is not done by man. It was done by machine (actually we don’t have machines that can cut like that today) but we are starting to see that laser is a possibility.
Absolute Codswallop. Also, Ancient Rome had power tools.
There is an entire thread on Ancient Aliens here, and every single such questions has been answered thoroughly and with in depth information to accompany said explanations All that I see is two in that thread that insist in deliberate ignorane to keep the ideal afloat. It is embarrassing the s=the species as a whole in my opinion. For some reason, some people seem to think asking the same question repeatedly somehow validates it. All that illustrates is extraordinary ignorance and refusal to learn, and as has been mentioned, it does appear the ignorance is indeed deliberate. Nobody is that stupid.
I work in construction, I can understand the principals quite well. I struggle to see how others do
not understand what has been explained to be quite frank.
The TV show Ancient Aliens has pushed theses claims, all the while avoiding more impressive structures such as the Pantheon or the Colosseum, both of which outdate the Megalithic sites sampled on the TV show. They avoided older, more complex structures, because those structures had clear records of man building them. And they misconstrued, exaggerated, speculated, and outright lied on the TV show about the sites to make them sound more mysterious. The actual facts go a bit more like the following:
Quote
AA: “One of the most intriguing thing there is it that the stones that were used there weren’t sandstone, they’re granite and diorite. The only stone that is harder than diorite is diamond, so the only way this could have been achieved is if the tools were tipped with diamonds.”
This is funny because it’s totally wrong, the stones are not granite or diorite at Pumapunku, they are Red Sandstone and Andesite, but this is also funny because of the way he says it.
AA: “The stones that were used there weren’t sandstone, they’re granite and diorite.”
Well yeah, actually it is sandstone. You can’t blame him though for it becomes obvious that throughout the series he often just repeats things he has heard in Eric Von Daniken’s books. Von Daniken’s books are what the Ancient Aliens series is based on. Later we see Eric Von Daniken himself make the exact same, totally wrong claim.
AA: “Of course [Pumapunku was] made out of stones found on Earth, because you don’t transport granite or diorite from another solar system.”
Von Daniken continues building up this false dilemma:
AA: “One of these platforms is 800 tons.”
That is very incorrect, the heaviest block at Pumapunku is 130 tons, and most of the stones are much smaller than that. So he is off by a whopping 670 tons! Unfortunately we will come to expect this kind of thing from Von Daniken as we progress.
Ancient Aliens spends quite a lot of time pointing out the various features in the stone masonry at Pumapunku before declaring it impossible to do without power tools.
AA: “Each of these small drills holes are basically evenly spaced along this routed groove. To me it’s clear that power tools have been used on this unusual block of stone here.”
AA: “This surface is as smooth as a table top, like in your kitchen. There’s no wave to it. This was machined.”
The sandstone and andesite stones at Pumapunku would have been easily worked with the most basic stone working tools, the idea that diamond tipped power saws were needed is ridiculous. The red sandstone was relatively soft and easy to work with, and even though andesite is pretty hard, because of the way it cooled it could be easily flaked off using stones as soft as 5.5 on the Mohs scale. Such pounding stones were found all over andesite quarries in the area.
Contrary to Ancient Aliens’ claims that archeologists are baffled by Pumapunku, Archeologists know the basics about how Pumapunku’s stones were cut and shaped. This is partly because there is evidence for this all over the site itself.
They actually used a method that almost all ancient stone workers used. They used hard -pounding stones to pound out troth like depressions; later on they used flat stones and sand to grind the stone to make a polished surface. We will see later on that this is also how the Egyptians, 1000’s of years before this, made their flat surfaced granite monuments like obelisks.
Sand, as we will see later when we look at Egypt, has extremely hard particles in it and, if placed between a flat surface and a rock, can polish even the hardest stones known to man. In fact, the harder the stone is the better it can be polished using sand.
We will also see that how sand can turn a piece of copper into a very efficient granite saw or granite drill – a method which the Egyptians utilized quite well.
Some stones at Pumapunku that Ancient Aliens would never show the cameras are the ones that were in the middle of this process. They show that at the same time a stone was being pounded by stone hammers, which created these troth like depressions, the grinding and polishing was taking place on the other end of the stone. Unfinished stones like this one clearly show how they were shaped – and it wasn’t with lasers.
LINK
sslama, on 18 January 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:
I have read about the Orion Project. And your info is very interesting.
Thank you, I hope you enjoyed the Nat Geo special.
It shows that less advanced species can indeed traverse space. What is needed is understanding, not speed. Not matter how fast we go, the Universe is not only to big to get across, it is ever expanding.
So it seems to me that we should see these "wading species" the ones who are just testing the waters of space, starting to look around, we do not all have to be majorly advanced. No species has to be to cross space, and yet, why go into space when you can make a phone call, ask for some specifications and pictures, and arrange to visit? Is that not an intelligent approach? Why would species not cross space with signals to find intelligent others first?
sslama, on 18 January 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:
I agree there is a lot of mysterious sightings and odd experiences…but I believe a lot of these experiences are not lies. We just don’t understand what they are and who is in control when it comes to UFO’s. Just because you don’t have the answers doesn’t mean these people didn’t experience it.
I never said I have the answers, and in fact, I think looking for a single one to explain this wide ranging phenomena is a fools errand. I feel there has to be many answers to the questions that abound. I do note however, that all answers regarding the UFO phenomena to date have come from the earth, beneath our feet. I ask, why is that trend likely to change all of a sudden?
sslama, on 18 January 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:
Astronaunts are not not allowed to talk about UFO sightings but years ago I saw an interview with Buzz Aldrin and he didn’t deny seeing it…..he just said he didn’t know what it was. He battled with depression and other issues after that trip. And Cooper was a firm believer in UFO’s. Cooper said “For many years I have lived with a lie, a secrecy imposed on all specialists in astronautics.” You can’t dismiss these men and their beliefs as crazy. Well you can, but I don’t.
Well, here is what Buzz himself had to say, I do know about his depression problems, and how he struggled with being the second man on the moon, just another lesson I learned from out lost friend MID,
Quote
To get the story straight, I called Buzz Aldrin, who was happy to explain what happened. He said that his remarks were taken out of context to reverse his meaning. It is true that the Apollo 11 crew spotted an unidentified object moving with the spacecraft as they approached the Moon. After they verified that this mystery object was not Apollo 11’s large rocket upper stage, which was about 6,000 miles away by then, they concluded that they were seeing one of the small panels that had linked the spacecraft to the upper stage (any part of the spacecraft’s rocket upper stage will continue to move alongside the spacecraft, as both are floating in free-fall). These panels were too small to track from Earth and were relatively close to the Apollo spacecraft. Aldrin told me that they chose not to discuss this on the open communications channel since they were concerned that their comments might be misinterpreted. His entire explanation about identifying the panels was cut from the broadcast interview, giving the impression that the Apollo 11 crew had seen a UFO. Aldrin told me that he was angry about the deceptive editing and asked the Science Channel to correct the intentional twisting of his remarks, but they refused. Later, Aldrin explained what happened on CNN’s Larry King Live (left, bottom) but was nearly cut off by the host before he could finish.
With the popularity of YouTube, this same question is addressed to me repeatedly, as in: “Check out this video on YouTube with Buzz Aldrin saying he saw a UFO on Apollo 11. Who is fibbing? NASA or the great American hero, Buzz Aldrin?” My answer was that the fibbing was being done by the producers of the video, who omitted the second half of the interview.
It is instructive to watch this interview to see the ways the story is embellished and ultimately manipulated. Most of the talking is done by the interviewer and not Aldrin, but their comments have been edited to create the illusion of a seamless narrative. Throughout the interview we see a montage of short scenes from Apollo and other missions, including a blurry image through the window taken during a later flight. Only a critical viewer will distinguish what Aldrin said from the narrative by the interviewer or realize that the video clips are unrelated. The end product is clever disinformation, strongly suggesting—without explicitly lying—that Aldrin and his crewmates saw an alien spacecraft.
LINK
I have spoken with Dr David Morrison myself on this matter, via email, personally I feel this also is incorrect, and that Astronaut Collins most likely identified the debris as a piece of Mylar that came loose during the CSM-LM separation. But, that is indeed a personal view that I feel best fits the facts available to us, however in no place does Buzz say that there was a genuine UFO that was never identified.
I, nor any crew I was on (I was on three Apollo crews), received any briefing before or after flights on UFO events, saw anything in space suggesting UFOs or structures on the moon, etc. We did it just like we said in official reports. My only claim to knowledge of these events is from the individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they saw, and now believe it should be made public. But I claim no first hand knowledge, nor have any. Pass it on to the rest of the net, if you will.
--
Edgar Mitchell
Cooper said he saw a UFO over Germany, his falling out wit NASA began with APollo 13, he expected to be selected, but after a falling ut with management, he lost the position to Shepard, and he was not happy about it. He wanted to be remembered He dies seem to have accomplished that. Did you know the name Collins when I mentioned it above? Maybe, maybe not, but I bet you know the names Cooper, Aldrin, Armstrong and Mitchell well dont you, and for very good reason. These men stood out, Cooper did too, didn't he.
Edited by psyche101, 19 January 2013 - 04:59 AM.
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