135 replies to this topic

[psyche101]

ChloeB, on 20 February 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

Yes, Psyche, we have spoken before and you accused me of an agenda then too in a thread I made, ended up apologizing for jumping my case, but I see it's a pattern with you when anyone tries to discuss anything, so I'll just save us the trouble and drop it here.  I'm done, I have no desire to discuss anything with some who is so paranoid.

Funny, I get the same impression back, and am happy to drop it. I do not see your point at all, and I doubt that I ever will.

And now you are seeing patterns after two conversations Do go on with these incredible insights!!

[_Only]

ChloeB, on 20 February 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

Well big old giant boobs, that's sexual and Psyche is all yahooo for that in his neighborhood, that he wanted to keep clean for the young 'uns.  Kids would walk past the giants boob billboard wouldn't they?  That's what I say....where do you draw the line?  It's not just what you like and don't like, it doesn't work that way.

Well if we're talking about things sold in stores and billboard advertisements of this sort, the line is clear. Covered private parts okay, naked private parts not okay. Unless you sell it from an 18+ shop, or in the back room (or wrapped in a way that not anyone can see it). Just the way it is.

[Paranoid Android]

ChloeB, on 20 February 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

I just feel like if it weren't for the religious imagery, then they wouldn't have went to the trouble to do it all, PA, but I think I kind of see where the line is drawn, legally, that is.

Well the band obviously used the religious imagery to stir up shock and controversy.  They wouldn't just whack on a normal naked chick and a normal phallic symbol.  The band has cultivated a particular image of themselves and their merchandise is attempting to use that image to put out consistent marketing about "who" this band is.  But whether the religious imagery is there, the pornography is still illegal, and I'm glad you're seeing that underlying point.  It is the point that moved me from "disagree but accept" to "disagree and think it totally inappropriate".

[Beckys_Mom]

Paranoid Android, on 20 February 2012 - 01:48 AM, said:

In my opinion, ignoring it is the same as accepting it as valid.  

Example -> So if I found someone's posts annoying, rude, inconsiderate and I thought to myself - this person is not worth talking to, their posts are rude and inconsiderate, I personally do not like this...But instead of complaining about them...I will glady put their  posts on ignore so I do not have to view them  .... AKA that must mean - I accept their  posts as valid and approve them?   To say that it still means you accept it all because you chose not to complain.. then that would make the ignore function pointless ..If I cannot see it, I do not have to complain what I cannot see

If you chose not to look at anything and you clearly ignore  it, then it means  you do not accept it as anything valid especially if you cannot see it ...We all do not have to complain about everything we do not like, we can easily ignore it..  I do not think  that needed any more explanation..  

Anyway, although my posts were greatly pulled up by yourself and others and questioned as to why I do not approve of the clothing  and yet ignore it and not complain about others?.. Is not really on topic., as there topic is not about who chooses to ignore it.... I have answered your questions and  I will gladly leave it at that..  I see no point in continuing on over why someone chooses to ignore it all..  Fact is If I do not see it where I come from then I cannot know what it is like for others who see it all the time.. I speak on my own behalf.... I hope now you can hold a better understanding, if not then its best to leave it.. I cannot say anything more to be honest..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 20 February 2012 - 10:14 AM.

[Beckys_Mom]

psyche101, on 20 February 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

I realise that you have not been exposed to such, but that is not where the banning took place. I agree with the decision. Like I say, I have a house not far from where this instance took place.

Indeed, I have not been exposed to these things where I come from, you on the other hand have..  So If I can see your reasoning on  why you feel it all should be gone..  then you should be able to understand that if someone who never  gets to see this sort of thing going on in their home town and has rarely seen anyone wear these things, then obviously they cannot imagine how it feels due to the fact they do not ever experience it...  That to me is easy to understand..    Now I stand firm with my posts, and I feel there is nothing more that needs to be said...

Quote

    I find life is too short, if I meet a racist, I will just move on.      

Exactly, if you do not approve of the racist, you ignore them and move on, life's to short.. And we all know racists can bring society down too..  I think that was a good example

Anyway.. Thee is nothing left on  this entire thread to be said.. We stick by our points and I do not feel I need to say more ..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 20 February 2012 - 10:18 AM.

[Sevenof Seven]

It's controversial and perhaps it was done to get attention. It is insulting at the same time and could be considered quite offensive in any societal group. Regardless of what any one person thinks of it, it is really is a cultural acceptance issue and what people are willing to accept within the society that they live in. Clearly.... from reading this thread, this is not something that society is willing to accept within it's moral boundary.

[Paranoid Android]

Beckys_Mom, on 20 February 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

Example -> So if I found someone's posts annoying, rude, inconsiderate and I thought to myself - this person is not worth talking to, their posts are rude and inconsiderate, I personally do not like this...But instead of complaining about them...I will glady put their  posts on ignore so I do not have to view them  .... AKA that must mean - I accept their  posts as valid and approve them?   To say that it still means you accept it all because you chose not to complain.. then that would make the ignore function pointless

It depends, are they posting illegal material?  If they are and you ignore it I would argue you are by proxy supporting it.  However, if it's just a rude attitude, as annoying as that may be it's not illegal and in this case ignoring them may be the best.

This t-shirt in question is displaying illegal images (illegal for people under the age of 18).  If it was just swearing, sure you can just ignore it and put it down to rude behaviour.  There are rude people out there.  But it's not, it includes illegal material, and if you walk by it and choose to ignore it you are in essence accepting that illegal images on t-shirts are acceptable attire.  

Since you don't actually encounter this type of shirt in daily life, I appreciate that you can choose to ignore it.  However, if for some reason someone walked down the streets of your town wearing it and you chose not to report them to authorities then through your silence you are deciding that breaking the law is ok.  

Do you see the distinction?  Ignoring rude behaviour says that you can keep to yourself when someone is rude and insulting.  Ignoring illegal behaviour says that you think the Law can be disobeyed without sanction.  Just my opinion, of course.

~ PA

[Beckys_Mom]

Paranoid Android, on 20 February 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

It depends, are they posting illegal material?  If they are and you ignore it I would argue you are by proxy supporting it.  

If they are on ignore, then the ignore function does not allow you to see what else they post  now does it? ... It doesn't have to be about something illegal in that respect, it can be about something you just do not approve or like.. In general if I do not like something I do usually ignore it..then it no longer bothers me..

Sometimes people just prefer not to face more hassle of getting something sorted... it can  cause more trouble than it is worth...

Example - If you are sitting next to me and you are yapping in my ear looking an argument.. and I switch myself off from hearing you and pay attention to  the TV or something else.meaning I am ignoring you... Would it make sense then for me to complain about what you have said  IF I have not heard you, due to the fact I was ignoring you?

If I do not see these images on clothing were I live, ( most likely because they are illegal over here too).. then  why would I need to complain about them?    Complain about what?

Quote

   However, if for some reason someone walked down the streets of your town wearing it and you chose not to report them to authorities then through your silence you are deciding that breaking the law is ok.      

So if I  see like one guy walking down the street wearing a swear word   or something dirty on his t-shirt ............. How exactly do you suppose I go about  making a complain about on e passer by in the streets.......  Do I tackle them and put myself at risk?  Please explain how I do this?.............  I  am dying to know how... I find this very odd...  

Say  while you are trying to explain how I can tackle one person walking down the street... Care to expand and say - What if I saw someone with a dirty porn tattoo  ?  I mean why stop at a bit of clothing right?....  If we are going to tackle the odd person walking down the street .. we may as well  make a show out of it right?......Complain like mad until they force him down to have it removed or cut his arm off?.
...Sounds a bit extreme but  it would cause more hassle and trouble  most likely ..   That is why it is best to target  an entire outlet  than tackle  one person who passes you by..
..Where does the line get drawn?......I think it is fair to ask that.. ..What do you think, do we stop at just dirty clothing or go further?

If you feel it is more important to tackle one person passing you in the street to complain... then I do not get why that is...It is a lot of hassle... It would differ if you saw an entire clothing store filled with it..  Two completely different things

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 20 February 2012 - 04:53 PM.

[Paranoid Android]

Beckys_Mom, on 20 February 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

If they are on ignore, then the ignore function does not allow you to see what else they post  now does it?

Exactly, and you would not know they posted it.  That was not my point.  My point is that if you see it, and then choose to ignore it then that is something different.

Beckys_Mom, on 20 February 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

So if I  see like one guy walking down the street wearing a swear word   or something dirty on his t-shirt ............. How exactly do you suppose I go about  making a complain about on e passer by in the streets.......  Do I tackle them and put myself at risk?  Please explain how I do this?.............  I  am dying to know how... I find this very odd...

Leaving aside that swear words aren't actually illegal, if the shirt has something dirty on it, in some situations it may not be practical to stop them (certainly not running out into the street and making a citizen's arrest).  However, if you are out and about in public and you see it, and then you see the local security guard or police officer you could ask them if they can do something.  Even if they then choose not to do something about it, at least you have notified the right people about it.  But I do agree that in some situations it is just not practical to speak out against it.  Mostly when it becomes an issue is in areas where lots of people mingle - shopping malls, restaurants, sports arenas, community centres and the like.  These places have staff who can deal with this, and if a complaint is made by someone about objectionable material on a shirt then the staff and/or security will take action.  

Beckys_Mom, on 20 February 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Say  while you are trying to explain how I can tackle one person walking down the street... Care to expand and say - What if I saw someone with a dirty porn tattoo  ?  I mean why stop at a bit of clothing right?....  If we are going to tackle the odd person walking down the street .. we may as well  make a show out of it right?......Complain like mad until they force him down to have it removed or cut his arm off?.
...Sounds a bit extreme but  it would cause more hassle and trouble  most likely ..   That is why it is best to target  an entire outlet  than tackle  one person who passes you by..

Same as above, if the guy is walking around in public and you notify security personnel then it might be as simple as asking them to put a long-sleeved shirt on.  Image removed.  Legal requirements met.  And if they don't have a long-sleeved shirt then staff and security have the Right to eject them from wherever they are mingling.  

This is just my opinion, of course

~ PA

[Beckys_Mom]

Paranoid Android, on 20 February 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

Exactly, and you would not know they posted it.  That was not my point.  My point is that if you see it, and then choose to ignore it then that is something different.

If you see it and chose to ignore it, does not mean you accept it either..Not everyone likes the hassle  to complain, not everyone likes to cause more trouble than it is worth, and not everyone feels people who act like idiots and clueless by showing disrespect, need any more attention...............  I gave you a  very good example on  how if someone is nagging at you and you shut yourself out, then it means they are annoying you, so by ignoring them, helps...It doesn't mean you think all they have said is acceptable.. If it were, you would not ignore them...

Quote

    Leaving aside that swear words aren't actually illegal, if the shirt has something dirty on it, in some situations it may not be practical to stop them (certainly not running out into the street and making a citizen's arrest).        

Wise to avoid, if you value your nose  in shape and teeth in place  lol... It is a risk I would not want to take.. If the person is willing to wear a dirty porno t-shirt, then goodness know what he would be like if you pulled him to one side to complain...  Not worth it   lol

Quote

      However, if you are out and about in public and you see it, and then you see the local security guard or police officer you could ask them if they can do something.  

What if you do not see one and the guy is long passed by that stage?

What if you are in a hurry, do you have time to go seek one from some place and see if you an get them to go catch the guy?  

The odd one wearing some stupid porn t-shirt and  me going all out to look for some cop or guard  to get them to make an arrest ... is just silly and a waste of my time.. It is not worth it........... It would be better IF  you knew of a store  that sold them..   Completely different ball game...At least the store cannot run away   or beat you up

Anyhoo.. I am a pretty fast walker when I am out, always in a hurry .. ( cuz I am always late for something)   I doubt I would notice  the odd t-shirt  with some stupid slogan or porno on it..lol  

Quote

   Same as above, if the guy is walking around in public and you notify security personnel then it might be as simple as asking them to put a long-sleeved shirt on. Image removed. Legal requirements met. And if they don't have a long-sleeved shirt then staff and security have the Right to eject them from wherever they are mingling.        

What if it is just in the streets?  the passer by guy.. , probably whistling the words - sweet lord, sweet chariot  to himself.. minding hi own business.... well at least until he encounters the local fuss pot dun dun dunnn  ... Where can they remove them on to?  tell them to bugger off home and find a long sleeve sweater ?  It could be a hot day.. a tad cruel  if ya ask me.lol

Anyhoo... Lets say it is in a mall....

So  lets say you  are next to me, I know you like porn  ( you said once before) and I know you have a tattoo.( because again you said once before lol )......  this next part is hypothetical so work with me here lol... And  I happen to see  you wait in line for a sandwich...On your arm I notice a porno  pic tattooed on you.......I kick up a fuss, run to get a security guard, to come and sort you out..  You see me complain.. Everyone is looking at you.. Face red... What would go through your mind?  Would you want to share your sandwich with me?  

I think even the guards would think, man this girl is a bit cookoo.. I guess we better go say something to the poor guy, before she complains about us too !!....     <- looks on their faces  most likely lol   Saying  -  sigh  ok miss leave it with us .!!

My point here is... I cannot be bothered  with that hassle  over one person in the street......I may not like your tattoo...but I  can look the other way and just keep myself to myself.....  It doesn't mean I think your tattoo is acceptable .. It just  means I  do not want the hassle...  Lots of people are like that ........I mean you could be a decent enough guy and harmless.. So why would I want to cause any trouble for you.. Your tattoo is not jumping out to  hit me  lol...

As I mentioned many posts ago.. I am raised like that.. My mother always saying to us...If you see a hair style, clothing on someone  or how someone  chooses   to look that doesn't look appropriate , you do not stare  or pass any remarks.. you keep yourself to yourself.. Do not cause any trouble.<-.  It stuck with me... It too does not mean  you will find it all acceptable..   We al have our reasons for ignoring things and not wanting to complain

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 21 February 2012 - 12:04 AM.

[psyche101]

Beckys_Mom, on 20 February 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

If they are on ignore, then the ignore function does not allow you to see what else they post  now does it? ... It doesn't have to be about something illegal in that respect, it can be about something you just do not approve or like.. In general if I do not like something I do usually ignore it..then it no longer bothers me..

Sometimes people just prefer not to face more hassle of getting something sorted... it can  cause more trouble than it is worth...

Example - If you are sitting next to me and you are yapping in my ear looking an argument.. and I switch myself off from hearing you and pay attention to  the TV or something else.meaning I am ignoring you... Would it make sense then for me to complain about what you have said  IF I have not heard you, due to the fact I was ignoring you?

If I do not see these images on clothing were I live, ( most likely because they are illegal over here too).. then  why would I need to complain about them?    Complain about what?

I guess I just see prevention as valuable. The shirt does not make a statement, it is nothing more than someones way to hurt or make others uncomfortable on purpose. I just do not see why that is necessary, or why we should support it.

Beckys_Mom, on 20 February 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

So if I  see like one guy walking down the street wearing a swear word   or something dirty on his t-shirt ............. How exactly do you suppose I go about  making a complain about on e passer by in the streets.......  Do I tackle them and put myself at risk?  Please explain how I do this?.............  I  am dying to know how... I find this very odd...  

Say  while you are trying to explain how I can tackle one person walking down the street... Care to expand and say - What if I saw someone with a dirty porn tattoo  ?  I mean why stop at a bit of clothing right?....  If we are going to tackle the odd person walking down the street .. we may as well  make a show out of it right?......Complain like mad until they force him down to have it removed or cut his arm off?.
...Sounds a bit extreme but  it would cause more hassle and trouble  most likely ..   That is why it is best to target  an entire outlet  than tackle  one person who passes you by..
..Where does the line get drawn?......I think it is fair to ask that.. ..What do you think, do we stop at just dirty clothing or go further?

If you feel it is more important to tackle one person passing you in the street to complain... then I do not get why that is...It is a lot of hassle... It would differ if you saw an entire clothing store filled with it..  Two completely different things

How would I propose you go about a person in the street with profanaties or pornography on his shirt? I would suggest alerting the local authorities and letting them make the decision. That is how it happened in the article from what I gather. If one has a chance to offer a vote, I do not see what would be wrong with voting against this sort of public display.

[psyche101]

Beckys_Mom, on 20 February 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

Indeed, I have not been exposed to these things where I come from, you on the other hand have..  So If I can see your reasoning on  why you feel it all should be gone..  then you should be able to understand that if someone who never  gets to see this sort of thing going on in their home town and has rarely seen anyone wear these things, then obviously they cannot imagine how it feels due to the fact they do not ever experience it...  That to me is easy to understand..    Now I stand firm with my posts, and I feel there is nothing more that needs to be said...

It still seems to me that there is absolutely no reason at all to not support the decision.

Beckys_Mom, on 20 February 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

Exactly, if you do not approve of the racist, you ignore them and move on, life's to short.. And we all know racists can bring society down too..  I think that was a good example

Anyway.. Thee is nothing left on  this entire thread to be said.. We stick by our points and I do not feel I need to say more ..

I have no other choice, if I see a racist inciting hatred in public, yes I will do my best to report them, and I have voted against racist groups coming to Australia in particular the Hammered Music Festival. LINK I do what I can with the avenues available to me.

[Beckys_Mom]

psyche101, on 21 February 2012 - 12:36 AM, said:

I have no other choice, if I see a racist inciting hatred in public, yes I will do my best to report them,   

I guess that is the way to spot a racist

Yet earlier you said ...

Quote

            I find life is too short, if I meet a racist, I will just move on.    

I see  lol   ....I see no point in pushing that one further, it is  not on topic....

  Anyhoo.. I have said all I   need to say... and  stand by it ...  Good luck

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 21 February 2012 - 01:55 AM.

[psyche101]

Beckys_Mom, on 21 February 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

I guess that is the way to spot a racist

Yet earlier you said ...



I see  lol   ....I see no point in pushing that one further, it is  not on topic....

  Anyhoo.. I have said all I   need to say... and  stand by it ...  Good luck

If I meet a racist I will move on as there is not much I can do about an individuals point of view, but if they take that view to the public then I do have a course of action. As perhaps an example, a friend of mine who is particularly offended by the Muslim Religion saw a bunch of young Muslim men heckling a Christian Bible Bashing in Brisbane Mall, he promptly went up to them, told them that it is this man's right to speak, and not theirs to stifle him, and  gave them his view of the Muslim religion. Suffice to say they moved on before he was finished. Now this fellow does not go out of his way to single out any Muslim he might cross in the street, and he does not get up in public and have a rant about his thoughts, but when he saw a bunch of bullies picking on one young man, he stepped in.

[Paranoid Android]

Beckys_Mom, on 20 February 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

If you see it and chose to ignore it, does not mean you accept it either..Not everyone likes the hassle  to complain, not everyone likes to cause more trouble than it is worth, and not everyone feels people who act like idiots and clueless by showing disrespect, need any more attention...............  I gave you a  very good example on  how if someone is nagging at you and you shut yourself out, then it means they are annoying you, so by ignoring them, helps...It doesn't mean you think all they have said is acceptable.. If it were, you would not ignore them...

Last I checked, nagging someone isn't illegal.  Now if you have already started to ignore them and no longer hear them and they tell you something they did that was illegal then naturally you aren't "accepting" them because you didn't hear it.  I never claimed otherwise.  But if you hear about something illegal, and then choose to ignore them, that is your choice.

Beckys_Mom, on 20 February 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

What if you do not see one and the guy is long passed by that stage?

What if you are in a hurry, do you have time to go seek one from some place and see if you an get them to go catch the guy?

As I said, it's not always practical.

Beckys_Mom, on 20 February 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

The odd one wearing some stupid porn t-shirt and  me going all out to look for some cop or guard  to get them to make an arrest ... is just silly and a waste of my time..

If I had a child and I was out in the park and suddenly my child is saying "Daddy, what does that shirt mean", then at this point I'm up and finding a way to remove that shirt from the presence of children!  Not a waste of time at all, in my opinion.

Beckys_Mom, on 20 February 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

So  lets say you  are next to me, I know you like porn  ( you said once before)

I said I've viewed porn.  And I'm a heterosexual male so naturally I like the look of a female body.  But I do not "like porn".  

Beckys_Mom, on 20 February 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

So  lets say you  are next to me, I know you like porn  ( you said once before) and I know you have a tattoo.( because again you said once before lol )......  this next part is hypothetical so work with me here lol... And  I happen to see  you wait in line for a sandwich...On your arm I notice a porno  pic tattooed on you.......I kick up a fuss, run to get a security guard, to come and sort you out..  You see me complain.. Everyone is looking at you.. Face red... What would go through your mind?  Would you want to share your sandwich with me?  

So if you were waiting in line for a sandwich, Becky is jumping up and down next to you.  Sees my hypothetical tattoo of a naked lady pleasuring herself with a sex toy, and says "I like that picture, Mommy, can I have one too?  What does it mean?  What is that woman doing to herself?"

If someone has a porn scene tattooed onto their flesh it's a pretty good indication that they don't care whether they are offending anyone.  Of course I would be embarrassed to be called out on something like this.  But then again, I would never get an illegal image tattooed to my body.    

Beckys_Mom, on 20 February 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

So why would I want to cause any trouble for you.. Your tattoo is not jumping out to  hit me  lol...

It may be jumping out to hit your daughter though, when it is illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to view something like that.