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Dead Mice Are Going To Be Dropped On Guam

guam dead mice brown tree snakes painkillers helicopters

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#16    Sakari

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:00 AM

View PostMichelle, on 23 February 2013 - 11:57 PM, said:

Well, let's just kill all of the men, women and children with a plague and be done with it. That'll fix everything!

Not all of us, but most. It will fix a lot of things, and it would be " natural ".....

Mother Nature has a way of population control, we as humans keep finding ways around it, but history shows, it will happen, one way or another. If we do not destroy our home ourselves first.

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#17    Michelle

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:16 AM

View PostSakari, on 24 February 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

Not all of us, but most. It will fix a lot of things, and it would be " natural ".....

Mother Nature has a way of population control, we as humans keep finding ways around it, but history shows, it will happen, one way or another. If we do not destroy our home ourselves first.

Yes, and in a thousand years after this plague you keep talking about, when man has repopulated, these "invasive species" will be natives to the environment. The whole ecosystem will have changed and no one will know the difference.

You really don't know how ridiculous you sound do you?

Edited by Michelle, 24 February 2013 - 12:19 AM.


#18    Sakari

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:22 AM

View PostMichelle, on 24 February 2013 - 12:16 AM, said:

You really don't know how ridiculous you sound do you?


Coming from you, not very.

I am not saying anything that about 99% of the educated population feel. If you can not see how we are destroying the environment, ourselves, and especially the future for our children, and grand children, I do not know what to tell you. It is all fact, not my opinion.

Hoping for a plague, or disaster to cut our population down may sound ridiculous to some, but not me. Just how I feel every time I see the News, or open up my home page.....Starving families, homeless people, lack of jobs, greed, holy wars, police states, psychological mass killings, oil spills, animals going extinct, etc,etc,etc.....

Aside from me saying the plague thing, I hope you can see how we, as humans, are destroying countless things, and there are just to many of us to go around.




Quote

Yes, and in a thousand years after this plague you keep talking about, when man has repopulated, these "invasive species" will be natives to the environment. The whole ecosystem will have changed and no one will know the difference.


So, what you just said is that is ok to just **** things up, because some time in the future, it will all just be " natural "........

Now how ridiculous is that?

Personally, I want my kids, grand kids, their grand kids, to all be able to go Salmon fishing, go see wildlife ( not in a zoo ), and be able to experience the world as we were able to. Not to only read bout it in books because we were selfish.

Edited by Sakari, 24 February 2013 - 12:42 AM.

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#19    Michelle

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:48 AM

View PostSakari, on 24 February 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

Coming from you, not very.

I am not saying anything that about 99% of the population feel. If you can not see how we are destroying the environment, ourselves, and especially the future for our children, and grand children, I do not know what to tell you. It is all fact, not my opinion.

According to you we need a plague...you say it often enough. Now, according to you, you speak for 99% of the population of the earth. I've been a tree hugging hippy for longer than you have been alive and I've got news for you, a lot people don't see how we are destroying this planet. I fail to see how you can hope for a future for children with no parents, if you think all of the children will be spared and we should all be taken out by Mother Nature's plague or a meteor. By the way, don't you think the majority of animals would be killed in a meteor strike too?

What is the age, according to you, everyone should be annialated or saved? Should that include people, like me, who have spent their life rescuing animals, farmers who provide your food? Just where do you draw the line in this utopia you dream of on who is killed?


#20    Sakari

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 01:01 AM

View PostMichelle, on 24 February 2013 - 12:48 AM, said:

According to you we need a plague...you say it often enough. Now, according to you, you speak for 99% of the population of the earth. I've been a tree hugging hippy for longer than you have been alive and I've got news for you, a lot people don't see how we are destroying this planet. I fail to see how you can hope for a future for children with no parents, if you think all of the children will be spared and we should all be taken out by Mother Nature's plague or a meteor. By the way, don't you think the majority of animals would be killed in a meteor strike too?

What is the age, according to you, everyone should be annialated or saved? Should that include people, like me, who have spent their life rescuing animals, farmers who provide your food? Just where do you draw the line in this utopia you dream of on who is killed?

As I said, the plague part may sound ridiculous, but I do feel that way. I honestly feel we are over populated, and I could post 100's of facts showing this.

Yes, my opinion of a human population control may be nuts to some, or most, who knows, I know a lot agree with me.

On the 99%, I meant feel that we have to many people, and we are destroying everything, not that 99% want a event like I do.

In reality, if a plague came, plagues do not pick and choose, many would die. It would be sad, but it would be beneficial for the future. Yes, if we could come up with " population control " ourselves, I would prefer that, but it would need to be world wide.

In a fantasy world, if I had a choice, people like you that save animals should be the ones surviving, so people like you can instill important things to the future generations, things that the majority have forgotten about.

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#21    Michelle

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 01:30 AM

View PostSakari, on 24 February 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

As I said, the plague part may sound ridiculous, but I do feel that way. I honestly feel we are over populated, and I could post 100's of facts showing this.

Yes, my opinion of a human population control may be nuts to some, or most, who knows, I know a lot agree with me.

On the 99%, I meant feel that we have to many people, and we are destroying everything, not that 99% want a event like I do.

In reality, if a plague came, plagues do not pick and choose, many would die. It would be sad, but it would be beneficial for the future. Yes, if we could come up with " population control " ourselves, I would prefer that, but it would need to be world wide.

In a fantasy world, if I had a choice, people like you that save animals should be the ones surviving, so people like you can instill important things to the future generations, things that the majority have forgotten about.

We are far from being over populated, especially in the US. We have thousands upon thousands of miles of nature preserves and farmlands. Simply because people choose to live in congested areas doesn't mean we are running out of room. Some of us have to worry more about bears breaking into their cars than thieves and it isn't because we are taking over their territory. They have found out there are easier pickings around people's houses than in the woods.

Thank you for granting me immunity though.


#22    Sakari

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 01:40 AM

View PostMichelle, on 24 February 2013 - 01:30 AM, said:

We are far from being over populated, especially in the US. We have thousands upon thousands of miles of nature preserves and farmlands. Simply because people choose to live in congested areas doesn't mean we are running out of room. Some of us have to worry more about bears breaking into their cars than thieves and it isn't because we are taking over their territory. They have found out there are easier pickings around people's houses than in the woods.

Thank you for granting me immunity though.


I know the bold part.......This is my " back yard ".....Nothing but forest for a while, actually all around.


Posted Image




As for being over populated, lets just say we disagree, unless you want to get into a discussion on it. ( friendly )......I will make a topic and see how it goes. Not sure how much I will put in, unless it is active.

And anyone that has a heart for animals is respected highly in my book.......... :tu:

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#23    Michelle

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 01:50 AM

View PostSakari, on 24 February 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

I know the bold part.......This is my " back yard ".....Nothing but forest for a while, actually all around.


Posted Image




As for being over populated, lets just say we disagree, unless you want to get into a discussion on it. ( friendly )......I will make a topic and see how it goes. Not sure how much I will put in, unless it is active.

And anyone that has a heart for animals is respected highly in my book.......... :tu:

That is a beautiful picture. Our property borders government park property and we take great pleasure in the wildlife that visits our yard. :tu:


#24    MoorWalks

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:37 AM

View PostStill Waters, on 23 February 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

Here's the latest plan scientists have come up with to kill some of the estimated 2 million brown tree snakes that have wiped out many other animals on Guam:

In April or May they're going to lace dead mice with painkillers, attach them to little parachutes, drop them from helicopters and hope that they get snagged in the jungle foliage. Then, if all goes well, the snakes — which as their name implies hang out in trees — will eat the mice and die from ingesting the painkillers' active ingredients.

http://www.npr.org/b...icopters-really

I believe, I may have seen this island and the snakes covered on a couple of documentaries, it looked infested when I watched it a couple of years ago, I bet you can't move for them now.

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#25    highdesert50

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 03:45 PM

For anyone who has spent time on Guam, one inevitably does come across these snakes where they have really taken over in areas of the island decimating some of the native species of birds as well as even gotten into homes. How does one undo the human error associated with accidentally transporting such an uncontrolled species? Tough decision.


#26    pallidin

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 04:08 PM

Interesting thread.


#27    Sundew

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:26 PM

It is quite true that wherever man goes, animals and plants follow, some intentionally, some accidentally. In this case the Brown Tree Snake was almost certainly a stowaway. Guam like many tropical islands had a number of endemic birds, as well as those found on nearby islands. Most have now been exterminated from the wild by the snake, there are only three native bird species left currently. Fortunately for those no longer found on the island, many have been the subject of captive breeding programs and some have been released on suitable nearby islands, but some are extinct and their future looks pretty bleak for the rest unless the BTS can be eliminated from Guam. Not reduced, eliminated.

If acetaminophen is highly toxic to the snakes then this is a reasonable approach to kill them. Lab mice are relatively cheap, as is the toxin. By dropping them with snags so they get caught in the trees they insure that an arboreal snake will more likely find them than a ground dwelling animal. But the fact is there are few native animals on Guam left anyway. The one worry might be that the native crow, of which I believe there is still a small wild population, might be attracted to the mice. Hopefully they have tempted captive crows with mice (obviously with no toxin) to see if they would be a worry.

These drops should be done monthly for several years until they can eliminate the snakes. They must kill off all adults before they reach breeding age and continue until all juveniles reach adult size. Then at least the birds can be reintroduced with a fighting chance at survival.

Guam is a military and commercial air hub. I landed there on the way to S.E. Asia years ago. The snake's high population density on the island makes it a very real possibility of individuals stowing away once more. Hawaii's endemic birds, which are already under pressure from disease and introduced bird species, would be under threat, and with inter-island flights they would quickly spread from Oahu to the rest of the chain. Several BTS have been found alive or dead in the wheel wells of planes landing in Hawaii that originated in Guam. So the clock is ticking....

Edited by Sundew, 24 February 2013 - 07:26 PM.


#28    CRIPTIC CHAMELEON

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:37 PM

These snakes are a pest they live on the east coast of Australia from NSW to NT they are a nocturnal snake that can be very aggressive when confronted. It is a rear-fanged colubrid, possessing two small, grooved fangs at the rear of the mouth.Due to the placement of the fangs and their grooved rather than hollow architecture, the venom is difficult to convey into a bite on a human, and thus is only delivered in small doses. The venom appears to be weakly neurotoxic and possibly cytotoxic with localized effects that are trivial for adult humans; serious medical consequences have been limited to children, who are more susceptible because of their low body mass.The snake is not considered dangerous to an adult human. The venom seems to be primarily used to subdue lizards, which can be more easily positioned in the rear of the mouth for venom delivery.


#29    King Fluffs

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:40 AM

Some person is going to end up eating those mice and killing themselves...


#30    AsteroidX

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:46 AM

Why dont they hunt the snakes like we do the everglades pythons. Its actually good business. and snakes are a delicacy for many. Poison just takes away from the environment. Oh I forgot were too cool to repair the damage the damage we created ourselves.





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