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Loss of faith


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#31    Dontlisten2me

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:16 AM

Here's one for ya pal. How did the isthmus get here? Without the Isthmus humans couldn't be connected at all. Isthmus the luckiest piece of land ever.

Edited by kampz, 13 December 2012 - 12:16 AM.


#32    Beany

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:29 AM

View Postainomieli, on 11 December 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

Hi Beany,

It is always great that people share their personal experiences about the path they are on. It was interesting to read. Thank you!

I grew up in a non-religious family. My parents were not atheists, but rather a sort of agnostics. My father actually was a strong believer of reincarnation and my mother, I think did not have an opinion about the matter. She often visited local churchyard, though she seldomly went to church. I think she was sort of an ancestry worshiper if you will.

I remember when I was spending time with my cousins and when it was time for us kids go to bed I heard my aunt say a prayer with them. I was bewildered by this. Of course I had heard about Jesus, But had not pay much thought about it.

Now when I went to my home I asked about my mother about this. I wanted to know why she had never prayed with me.
My mother kindly explained to me that her intend was always to let me find my own answers. She did not want to fill my head of religion stuff because I had wild imagination and she was afraid that it might not do good to me, because I was easily scared and had nightmares quite often.

To me the idea of God was acceptable, even natural. It was like I had always knew God. The thing different was know that this time I had a name for Him and now I new His son too.
I think it is like this for all children. Close to God in the holy spirit.

When I started to give names these perfectly natural things I started to feel some conflict in me. World was not a peaceful place anymore. It seemed chaotic and even violent. It was nothing like a Gods kingdom on earth shut be.
Later in my life I abandoned most of my childhood beliefs, trying only to keep my heart open and my mind set.
I thought that I needed to forget everything I was thought. I felt I needed to reprogram myself in order to get to the core of things.

I searched and read lot of different types of spiritual literature, but even though I find it very useful for my spiritual bath, it sort of did not lead me anywhere.
Actually I think, I had even more questions than answers. This is of course normal for most of us. In life only certainty there is, is that we know so little of inothing.

But I had these mystical experiences that made me think that there was something special in me.
I crew a bit arrogant. Self-righteously I thought that I was on the bath. And others, well they where a little mediocre. I felt utterly alone.

This lead me eventually hurt myself and others in a way I could not have possibly predict.
I got sick  but this was not sickness of body but rather sickness of soul if you will.

Because of this I had to re-evaluate my previous ways of thinking. I felt horrible anguish and thought that if I am not in Hell already, then I don't want get to know the real deal.

This made me turn back to Jesus as I once did. This time though, I was utterly lost and confused. There was no trace of that mystical knowledge that I once had. Only humiliation.

But eventually, with a loving forgiveness of others once miss treated, and maybe little bit of my own will too, I was able to accept that maybe there still was worth in me.
I regain some of my old self back. Only some of it though.

Observer in me is still the same, but perception has been changed forever. I have lost something that I can not even give a name. World is still confusing, but now I try to keep it simple.
I am able to see other people now not as a manifestation of my own anger and frustrations, but actual beings with real emotions and hardships like myself.

It will never be the same for me, but it is not an end either. I have gained also some insight as well.
And now I think I know what is important. It is not me being '' there'' first. It is us going there together. I am not in Hell anymore and that is enough right now.

Thank you all who had the patience to read this trough. It was bit long I know and I hope it was not that frustrating read. English is not my mother language and I am sorry if there are too many typos.

IMO, it takes a huge act of courage to engage in the kind of self-reflection you did, and it's also an extremely responsible act. And maybe there is something special in all of us, that spark of humanity that makes life worth living. How we feel about life on this planet is all about personal perspective, and each person's commitment to making life a little bit better than before we came along. That alone is worth living for.


#33    Beany

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:31 AM

View Postkampz, on 13 December 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

Here's one for ya pal. How did the isthmus get here? Without the Isthmus humans couldn't be connected at all. Isthmus the luckiest piece of land ever.
Are you talking about the land bridge that facilitated migration? I've heard Native Americans contend that it was a 2-way traffic corridor, that migration went both ways. I'm a little confused, though, about how the isthmus relates. Can you clarify? You might be on to something and I'd never know it unless you explained it.


#34    Beany

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:36 AM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 11 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

I am sort of in this place too. Well for me it started like two years ago and it has been a very growthful and also confusing time. I am still in the mix of wet cement churning for understanding, sometimes I think I will be in this state indefinitely because I know there will always be more that I do not know, but my eyes have been opened to a variety ways of seeing and I am definitely closer to god than ever before.. It is a good place for me personally

but I'd do feel a lot of rejection from people who cannot see the way that I do. I try to let them know that I do see like them, but I also see in different ways, god has given me the view of a larger picture that is still hard for me to articulate, but I love this stage, although it can be lonely, confusing and spiritually grueling... At least it is not spiritually grueling in the way of forcing myself to eat other peoples garbage, it is spiritually grueling in allowing myself to expand and allowing my own thoughts and attitudes have authority and not conforming
Yeah, it's kind of weird how people are eager to recruit you for their team, isn't it? I'm not sure that I'm moving closer to anything other than my authentic self, but accomplishing that alone would be worth the journey. Historically, these periods of change for me have always meant learning to see the world in a new way, and I have to say I've always fallen in love with what I've seen, so I'm hoping this will be true again. Someone gave some good advice here, to just let go. Thanks to whoever advised that, BTW, it's working pretty well for me. Zippity doodah, zippity day, wonderful feeling, wonderful day!


#35    Mr Walker

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 07:54 AM

Two comments on the OP.
First if you are moving you are getting somewhere; but second, if you arent enjoying the trip, man, somethings wrong. :innocent:

The voyage, where ever it leads you, should be fun, or at least enjoyable because of its challenge and interest. If it's not, then perhaps you need to upgrade to first class travel (or at least examine the nature purpose etc of your voyage.)
Remember the posters from WW11? " Is your trip REALLY necessary?."

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#36    Dontlisten2me

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 09:40 AM

View PostBeany, on 13 December 2012 - 02:31 AM, said:

Are you talking about the land bridge that facilitated migration? I've heard Native Americans contend that it was a 2-way traffic corridor, that migration went both ways. I'm a little confused, though, about how the isthmus relates. Can you clarify? You might be on to something and I'd never know it unless you explained it.

Yeah they were created Intelligently in my opinion. Without it they couldn't do it.

Edited by kampz, 13 December 2012 - 09:41 AM.


#37    Beany

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:45 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 13 December 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

Two comments on the OP.
First if you are moving you are getting somewhere; but second, if you arent enjoying the trip, man, somethings wrong. :innocent:

The voyage, where ever it leads you, should be fun, or at least enjoyable because of its challenge and interest. If it's not, then perhaps you need to upgrade to first class travel (or at least examine the nature purpose etc of your voyage.)
Remember the posters from WW11? " Is your trip REALLY necessary?."

Thanks for your input. I am getting somewhere, for sure. Thankfully, I'm not as anxious as I was when I made the OP, mostly because of some of the wisdom from people here, and my friends. And while I love fun & comfort, I've found there's often, if not usually, value in being willing to be uncomfortable, at least for a short while, because for me it often signals a period of growth. The uncomfortability usually occurs when I'm leaving the old behind and haven't yet reached the new, that sort of stepping of the cliff without being certain there will be something solid beneath my feet. And then I do what I'm doing now, surfing the big wave and letting it carry me.


#38    ainomieli

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:12 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 12 December 2012 - 11:42 PM, said:

We are all on the path of unknowing, you are brave enough to be conscious of it my friend.

peace
mark

I know nothing of being brave :yes: But instead I have wonderful friends that inspire me to trust that path again.

Only truth exists.

#39    ainomieli

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:22 PM

View PostBeany, on 13 December 2012 - 02:29 AM, said:

IMO, it takes a huge act of courage to engage in the kind of self-reflection you did, and it's also an extremely responsible act. And maybe there is something special in all of us, that spark of humanity that makes life worth living. How we feel about life on this planet is all about personal perspective, and each person's commitment to making life a little bit better than before we came along. That alone is worth living for.


I agree with you!
First and foremost, we have to take responsibility of our own actions and get to know ourselves.

There is a lot of darkness in me I just recently become aware of.
It was frightful and both surprisingly relieving finally be able to face the darkness.
At the same time I begin to realize how much good there still is, and I became to see this not only in myself, but in others as well.

I think that forgiving is the thing we have to do here. It is important to always forgive. Forgiving means that you let go of all that held you down and accept things as they are. Only then you can move on. This is ongoing process that should keep us moving, but It is the starting point as well :)

Being human means that pain can not be avoided.
Some people have huge traumas, some have minor so that they may not even realize it, but each of us need to get to know these dark parts of our minds, no matter how painful they may seem.

I think this trauma is our lesson that makes us strive here. Sometimes this striving can seem a little helpless.
We can wail and cry and blame others and situations we are on, but this only traps us into a false martyrdom and we give away our free will and then, all that happens can shake us to the point we feel that nothing really matters anymore.

I want to choose consciousness whatever happens and I pray the Lord to give me strength to do so.
That I might never again slip in to dream and start to unconsciously repeat my old negative ways.

Edited by ainomieli, 13 December 2012 - 04:24 PM.

Only truth exists.

#40    White Crane Feather

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:31 PM

View PostBeany, on 13 December 2012 - 02:31 AM, said:


Are you talking about the land bridge that facilitated migration? I've heard Native Americans contend that it was a 2-way traffic corridor, that migration went both ways. I'm a little confused, though, about how the isthmus relates. Can you clarify? You might be on to something and I'd never know it unless you explained it.
Just to add a bit. The ancestors did not migrate here. They just lived. If a group of people spread out about 25 Miles on average every generation of 30 years or so, after 10,000 years that's over 8,000 miles. it was probably much more than that. Groups of people chaseing resources back and forth across a land bridge or island hopping is all it takes. I imagine the north American land bridge was a trade route.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#41    White Crane Feather

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:40 PM

View PostBeany, on 11 December 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

Hey, Seeker, I like that empty cup reference. And I'm also reminder of that phrase "the constantly becoming woman." Everyone, your wisdom & support is helping me over the bumpy road 've been on. I guess we don't always need to visit a guru or spend money on a retreat, sometimes we can just ask our friends & neighbors. I'm a big believer in common wisdom, for sure, and I've found a lot of it here. The great thing about most of the responses was the language & imagery used, it was mostly open-ended, which helps me stay the temptation to define this experience in terms of past experience, which I think would inhibit the full development of whatever comes next. Does that make any sense? In my mind I'm holding images of emptiness, i.e. an empty bowl, an empty night sky, an empty ocean, an empty field of snow in hopes this experience will definite itself, and I'm waiting to see what fills it. Well, I'll see where this takes me. This isn't the first time I've been turned upside down like this, but this IS the first time I've brought it on myself.
Might I suggest a vision quest. A simple one, no sleep deprivation or fasting, but a one or two week stint alone in the wilderness. It takes about three days for the mind to turn inward.

If it is not in your skill set, I'd be happy to give you all the info you need for safety and such and walk you through supply list.

Anyway, just a thought.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#42    SpiritWriter

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:08 PM

View PostBeany, on 13 December 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:



Thanks for your input. I am getting somewhere, for sure. Thankfully, I'm not as anxious as I was when I made the OP, mostly because of some of the wisdom from people here, and my friends. And while I love fun & comfort, I've found there's often, if not usually, value in being willing to be uncomfortable, at least for a short while, because for me it often signals a period of growth. The uncomfortability usually occurs when I'm leaving the old behind and haven't yet reached the new, that sort of stepping of the cliff without being certain there will be something solid beneath my feet. And then I do what I'm doing now, surfing the big wave and letting it carry me.

I totally agree change shouldn't be comfortable. I think we should break and take time for comfort and not over do the gruelingness that it would spiral out of contol, but being at the cutting edge will be sharp at times, being sanded doesnt start out smooth...

Edited by SpiritWriter, 13 December 2012 - 05:09 PM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#43    SpiritWriter

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:19 PM

View Postainomieli, on 13 December 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:




I agree with you!
First and foremost, we have to take responsibility of our own actions and get to know ourselves.

There is a lot of darkness in me I just recently become aware of.
It was frightful and both surprisingly relieving finally be able to face the darkness.
At the same time I begin to realize how much good there still is, and I became to see this not only in myself, but in others as well.

I think that forgiving is the thing we have to do here. It is important to always forgive. Forgiving means that you let go of all that held you down and accept things as they are. Only then you can move on. This is ongoing process that should keep us moving, but It is the starting point as well :)

Being human means that pain can not be avoided.
Some people have huge traumas, some have minor so that they may not even realize it, but each of us need to get to know these dark parts of our minds, no matter how painful they may seem.

I think this trauma is our lesson that makes us strive here. Sometimes this striving can seem a little helpless.
We can wail and cry and blame others and situations we are on, but this only traps us into a false martyrdom and we give away our free will and then, all that happens can shake us to the point we feel that nothing really matters anymore.

I want to choose consciousness whatever happens and I pray the Lord to give me strength to do so.
That I might never again slip in to dream and start to unconsciously repeat my old negative ways.

Very very true, and this is what going through that change is all about. Thank you for posting this!

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#44    Dontlisten2me

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:30 PM

View Postkampz, on 13 December 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

Yeah they were created Intelligently in my opinion. Without it they couldn't do it.

Seems like Evolution wouldn't of worked unless a bunch of Lucys or whatever swam the Mediterranean and Red Sea. Most things in Central America wouldn't of worked either especially if there wasn't a Alaskan/Kamchatka Isthmus. Short faced bears and smilodons were eating us and all we had was wood. Pangea existed in another form when Humans first got here supposedly. Straits of the Mediterranean look planned out too but the entire World is in some way in my opinion.

Giant bears are reported similar to the short faced bear in the past century. In my opinion it's a misidentification or a bigfoot thing. I guess you can throw in a smilodon too or something resembling it.

Edited by kampz, 13 December 2012 - 10:43 PM.


#45    Mr Walker

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:02 PM

View PostBeany, on 13 December 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

Thanks for your input. I am getting somewhere, for sure. Thankfully, I'm not as anxious as I was when I made the OP, mostly because of some of the wisdom from people here, and my friends. And while I love fun & comfort, I've found there's often, if not usually, value in being willing to be uncomfortable, at least for a short while, because for me it often signals a period of growth. The uncomfortability usually occurs when I'm leaving the old behind and haven't yet reached the new, that sort of stepping of the cliff without being certain there will be something solid beneath my feet. And then I do what I'm doing now, surfing the big wave and letting it carry me.

I can appreciate this. Like my wife often tells me, I am a control freak.I couldn't stand  not to know where I was going or what was happening next. I think i got this from my father who had the abilty to imagine anything, draft the plans, models etc to design it, and then to buld or create it. He showed me a process to achieve anything you could imagine in life and make it happen.

As it happens i applied this to surfing as a teenager. Learn the technique step by step, master it and enjoy the rush.
But i found the learning and the mastery of anything more enjoyable than the repitition of doing something over and over, hence i learned to do many many things,   but only stuck with a very few. Once I'd mastered the long board, could walk the plank, hang ten and five, i moved onto something like barefoot sking or iceskating snow sking etc.

Maybe if they had the short boards back in the mid sixties, I might have stuck with surfing a bit longer.

I planned my entire life when I was a child, had met all my objectives by the time I was 40, and had to rewrite the script lol . For me the planning enabled me to identify and meet every goal I might desire.

And for me, while pain and doubt can be natural in life, one's objective should be, overall, to eliminate them. If that requires, for example, a painful exercise regime to make your body fitter and stronger, then  fair enough, but as you point out, deprivation or sacrifice should have an ultimate improvement or goal in mind.

Edited by Mr Walker, 13 December 2012 - 11:20 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.




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