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Israel airstrikes in Syria (confirmed)


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#106    Frank Merton

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 11:43 AM

If the Iranians persist, at some point all of their installations will be destroyed.  It seems so stupid.


#107    skookum

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:40 PM

View PostCoffey, on 06 February 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:




Seems so hateful and like he loves war. :whistle:

They show military power as a deterrent. Imagine if this was a playground and some nasty spiteful kid (that's Israel by the way) Kept getting it's bigger friend to bully you (that's the US by the way) and took your lunch money everyday... Wouldn't you want to show that you won't stand for this?

Also you failed to provide evidence of Iran's threat to nuke Israel.....

I really don't get how you can honestly think Iran would nuke Israel. They would be nuked in return and they are intelligent enough to know that. What kind of weird world do you live in? Are you really that brainwashed by the media? lol Please use some common sense.


No my partner was married to an Iranian and has lived in Iran.  I still have Iranian friends and even they are nervous about their countries actions.  

I have no evidence of anything it is my own fear of what could happen.

This is a country that hangs 15 and 16 year old boys publically because it suspects they are gay ( they later claim it was for rape).  They stone women, they cut of peoples body parts. Thats just a few of the things.

You want me to believe the leaders are playing with a full deck of cards?  Do they really care about how many people would die in a war?  I don't know but look at Syria, they have no problem killing there own.

Thats all I have to say on it to be honest.  You want to believe they are a peace loving nation thats up to you are your right to have your opinion.

I choose to think something else because of what people have told me that have lived in that country.  (So I have been brainwashed by people who live or have lived in Iran, if I can't believe them where should I get information.  That is my right to have my opinion.

I really want to believe you as I have absolutely no desire for a war, let alone nuclear.  I also have no hatred towards Iranian people, but even they have been protesting against the leaders.

I don't know why you are taking it so personally if you are so sure you are right.

Edited by skookum, 06 February 2013 - 01:54 PM.

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#108    and then

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:54 PM

View Postskookum, on 06 February 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

No my partner was married to an Iranian and has lived in Iran.  I still have Iranian friends and even they are nervous about their countries actions.  

I have no evidence of anything it is my own fear of what could happen.

This is a country that hangs 15 and 16 year old boys publically because it suspects they are gay.  They stone women, they cut of peoples body parts. Thats just a few of the things.

You want me to believe the leaders are playing with a full deck of cards?  Do they really care about how many people would die in a war?  I don't know but look at Syria, they have no problem killing there own.

Thats all I have to say on it to be honest.  You want to believe they are a peace loving nation thats up to you are your right to have your opinion.

I choose to think something else because of what people have told me that have lived in that country.  That is my right to have my opinion.

I really want to believe you as I have absolutely no desire for a war, let alone nuclear.  I also have no hatred towards Iranian people, but even they have been protesting against the leaders.

I don't know why you are taking it so personally if you are so sure you are right.
Those who support Iran's rights to nuclear power here are demonstrably too intelligent to actually believe their own rhetoric.  They know there is really no way a nation would absorb the kind of pain and universal ostracism that has attended this effort JUST to create nuclear energy for peaceful purposes.  Power plants and medical isotopes could have been in place long ago with minimal international involvement in HELPING Iran to achieve them.  Offers of free nuclear fuel and isotopes were made - and refused.  Uranium enrichment facilities were spread out over the whole country and placed in extremely hardened deep under ground bunkers.  Iran is interested in only one thing and it will have it soon enough.   I think that is unstoppable at this point.  But if one marks this thread and pulls it up in a few months or a year or two when the news hits the paper that Iran has indeed *gasp* tested a nuclear weapon, everyone who ridiculed this premise will just say - well, doesn't matter, they had a perfect right to the weapon - IT'S ONLY FAIR AFTER ALL.  And that attitude is childish in the extreme IMO.  It presupposes all nations to be equal and that no nation other than the most powerful (America) is ever likely to be a threat in the world....childish.

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#109    skookum

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 02:14 PM

So allowing countries with Governments that are not politically very stable even with their own people is a step in the right direction for a safer world?

BTW I have no love for America or the UK in the way they have conducted themselves in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya.

Edited by skookum, 06 February 2013 - 02:19 PM.

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#110    and then

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 02:52 PM

View Postskookum, on 06 February 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

So allowing countries with Governments that are not politically very stable even with their own people is a step in the right direction for a safer world?

BTW I have no love for America or the UK in the way they have conducted themselves in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya.
Understood, and deservedly so with the possible exception of the initial involvement in Afghanistan which I felt was justified and still do.  But This really is a different question isn't it?  An Iranian nuclear weapon will not be a good thing for the world.  It will inevitably raise tensions in an already volatile area that the whole world has a stake in keeping at peace to the extent possible.  But I think that naysayers aside, it's too late now to stop an Iranian bomb.  And the same people who decry an American or Israeli intervention to stop such a bomb will continue to blame both for any consequences that flow from that bomb - watch it happen.  It's ridiculous.

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#111    Coffey

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 02:56 PM

View Postskookum, on 06 February 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

No my partner was married to an Iranian and has lived in Iran.  I still have Iranian friends and even they are nervous about their countries actions.  

I have no evidence of anything it is my own fear of what could happen.

This is a country that hangs 15 and 16 year old boys publically because it suspects they are gay ( they later claim it was for rape).  They stone women, they cut of peoples body parts. Thats just a few of the things.

You want me to believe the leaders are playing with a full deck of cards?  Do they really care about how many people would die in a war?  I don't know but look at Syria, they have no problem killing there own.

Thats all I have to say on it to be honest.  You want to believe they are a peace loving nation thats up to you are your right to have your opinion.

I choose to think something else because of what people have told me that have lived in that country.  (So I have been brainwashed by people who live or have lived in Iran, if I can't believe them where should I get information.  That is my right to have my opinion.

I really want to believe you as I have absolutely no desire for a war, let alone nuclear.  I also have no hatred towards Iranian people, but even they have been protesting against the leaders.

I don't know why you are taking it so personally if you are so sure you are right.

Because I also have Iranian friends, who live just like I do.... They don't have that sort of thing happening in front of them....

I don't hear about people running into schools over there with automatic weapons and killing  kids. Does that mean America is dangerous?!

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.

#112    and then

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 03:01 PM

View PostCoffey, on 06 February 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

Because I also have Iranian friends, who live just like I do.... They don't have that sort of thing happening in front of them....

I don't hear about people running into schools over there with automatic weapons and killing  kids. Does that mean America is dangerous?!
Coffey, what about his other point?
This is a country that hangs 15 and 16 year old boys publically because it suspects they are gay ( they later claim it was for rape).  They stone women, they cut of peoples body parts. Thats just a few of the things.

Surely you don't approve of such behavior by that government?  And excusing evil by pointing to other's bad behavior is unacceptable to most thinking people.

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  for what could be, the darkest age...

#113    Coffey

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:04 PM

View Postand then, on 06 February 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

Coffey, what about his other point?
This is a country that hangs 15 and 16 year old boys publically because it suspects they are gay ( they later claim it was for rape).  They stone women, they cut of peoples body parts. Thats just a few of the things.

Surely you don't approve of such behavior by that government?  And excusing evil by pointing to other's bad behavior is unacceptable to most thinking people.

Of course I don't, but I don't approve of Israel murdering children because they Palestinian either.

Just like I don't approve of the US, UK etc bombing Afghanistan and Iraq and murdering THOUSANDS of children.

So how come US, UK and Israel are allowed Nukes based on the exact same thing?


Do you approve of those things?

Can you not see the hypocrisy here?!  

US, UK and Israel cause mass genocide... Where has Iran ever been involved in mass genocide?

That should be the rule of owning a nuke... Has a country been involved in mass genocide.. if yes they shouldn't be allowed nukes.

Edited by Coffey, 06 February 2013 - 04:08 PM.

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#114    and then

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:40 PM

View PostCoffey, on 06 February 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Of course I don't, but I don't approve of Israel murdering children because they Palestinian either.

Just like I don't approve of the US, UK etc bombing Afghanistan and Iraq and murdering THOUSANDS of children.

So how come US, UK and Israel are allowed Nukes based on the exact same thing?


Do you approve of those things?

Can you not see the hypocrisy here?!  

US, UK and Israel cause mass genocide... Where has Iran ever been involved in mass genocide?

That should be the rule of owning a nuke... Has a country been involved in mass genocide.. if yes they shouldn't be allowed nukes.
I won't argue that mistakes were made in Iraq and Afghanistan but characterizing those actions as murder is wrong, IMO.  But that aside, what you seem to be saying is that because America is guilty then the world should allow a country that executes young people for appearing to be gay, cuts off body parts as a form of judicial sanction and routinely threatens other countries -especially Israel -  with physical attack - though by proxies, is acceptable.  If you find that acceptable then the obvious trail of logic is that when Iran has a nuke, you will excuse any action they take with it for the same reasons.  The two cannot be so lightly separated IMO.

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  for what could be, the darkest age...

#115    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:24 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 06 February 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

If the Iranians persist, at some point all of their installations will be destroyed.  It seems so stupid.

Persists with what? Making medical isotopes?


#116    and then

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:43 PM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 06 February 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

Persists with what? Making medical isotopes?
Ex, how long are you going to take such an embarrassing uber legalistic view of this situation?  So unless courtroom quality proof can be offered for Iran working on components - including the most important one, fuel,  - then you cannot even imagine that they might be trying to position themselves for a bomb?  Do you require such a standard for ANYTHING else you discuss?  Frankly, people will stop taking what you say seriously if you keep up such an illogical pattern of absolute denial.  NO ONE in the world community any longer doubts Iran's intentions in this NOR do they think it is a beneficial course for the world.  You know, it is possible to acknowledge their attempt for nukes yet not approve of specific actions being considered against them - you just have to be honest about  where you stand.

edit to clarify that when I say NO ONE I mean world governments that aren't doing billions in business with Iran.

Edited by and then, 06 February 2013 - 05:45 PM.

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#117    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:44 PM

Quote


Persists with what? Making medical isotopes?



Nuclear weapons ;)


#118    Coffey

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:10 PM

View Postand then, on 06 February 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

I won't argue that mistakes were made in Iraq and Afghanistan but characterizing those actions as murder is wrong, IMO.  But that aside, what you seem to be saying is that because America is guilty then the world should allow a country that executes young people for appearing to be gay, cuts off body parts as a form of judicial sanction and routinely threatens other countries -especially Israel -  with physical attack - though by proxies, is acceptable.  If you find that acceptable then the obvious trail of logic is that when Iran has a nuke, you will excuse any action they take with it for the same reasons.  The two cannot be so lightly separated IMO.

Iran would not nuke Israel. It is just silly to even think that.

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.

#119    Yamato

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:31 PM

View Postskookum, on 06 February 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

So allowing countries with Governments that are not politically very stable even with their own people is a step in the right direction for a safer world?
What should somebody else in the world "allow" your country with your government?   Sovereignty is a wonderful thing, when you're taking your own for granted and defiling someone else's.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#120    Yamato

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:36 PM

View Postand then, on 06 February 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

Coffey, what about his other point?
This is a country that hangs 15 and 16 year old boys publically because it suspects they are gay ( they later claim it was for rape).  They stone women, they cut of peoples body parts. Thats just a few of the things.

Surely you don't approve of such behavior by that government?  And excusing evil by pointing to other's bad behavior is unacceptable to most thinking people.
And we bomb civilians that we suspect they are disagreeable.   We electrocute people, torture people, have over a million abortions a year, gamble, prostitute, start wars on countries that never attacked us, starve millions of people to death with sanctions, proliferate more arms than any other country in the world.   Who's going to rabble rouse about us out there and make you think their voices are legitimate?   That reflection in that mirror is nothing I'd wear.

If cutting off body parts is going to be raised as the reason to rabble rouse about Iran then our officials should get busy with their next shameless display of hypocrisy while they're subsidizing other countries who stone women blah blah blah.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela




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