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Odd Social/Relationship Question


Miss Shadows

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Ok so fair warning, this is a long and complicated question. Don't bother reading unless you really want to. Secondly, I wouldn't say I'm really interested in this man, but rather I'm interested in the social interpretations of this. I don't always read things like this so accurately, so below I've tried to include what I feel are relevant events with necessary details to help paint a decent understanding of some things. Go ahead, tell me what you think.

This is a complicated question for many reasons so please keep a few things in mind: differing cultures, he's married, and he seems like a good, honest guy.

So I took my first Arabic class last semester. Loved it. Also, my teacher was amazing. He was friendly, funny, insightful, and really seemed into the fact that I loved the language so much. I've always been smart and personable, so I became friendly with him very fast and one of those front and center students, but I never thought more of it until I heard a couple quiet comments to me suggesting that our professor might like me. A bit about him, he's between 40-50 and very nice, to all of the students, not just me. He also seems very grounded, he has a 12 y/o daughter and a wife and he never outwardly seemed unhappy with any of that, I can really tell he loves his daughter because he was showing a picture of her around during class once, and he briefly mentioned his wife a couple times. Anyway, he's originally from Egypt, but he studied in England for years and has lived in the US even longer, so I can see that he has a grasp on his birth culture but he's fully adapted here as well.

That being said, a couple slightly odd incidents to examine.

1) He always joked and talked and spent more time with me, stood near my desk a considerably greater amount of the lectures, and two separate people had made the comment to me "he really lights up brighter when he talks to you".

2) One of the older students worked in a big company with a large meeting area, and they started letting him use this space once a month or so as a "clubroom" for our Arabic class, so this older student, a middle aged man with a wife and kids from Iran, would make Arabic food and invite some of their Arabic speaking friends plus our class, we'd come and eat and watch movies and socialize and so on for an evening now and then. Keep in mind, that this classmate's family is also very well adapted and Americanized, and his wife particularly was one of those loud laughing friendly women.

Well, in this club the joke was we were always supposed to just speak Arabic, but that never lasted more than the first 2 minutes of the get-togethers. Anyway, during our first meeting after the end of the semester, when we hadn't seen our teacher for a while, a girl friend from class and I were sitting at a table eating bread and mingling with some guests in Arabic when our old teacher walked in. My girlfriend jumped up and gave him this big hug all happy to see him, but I stayed seated because I was talking to this nice old man. Well, after my friend let go he came over and gave me a hug standing up, while I was sitting down, one of those awkward side hugs that ended up with my head pressed into the side of his waist. The weird thing here is that my classmate's wife comes over and says "What is this?!" At first he and I were both confused, but we didn't let go of each other. I thought maybe she was weirded out from a cultural perspective by us hugging (but like I said her whole family is Americanized so I knew it wasn't that). Anyway, my old professor stuck out his free hand in a palm-up position, like that "no big deal, chill out" gesture and said "What??" My classmate's wife repeated herself excitedly and I felt my professor tense up more, so I looked up and he had the guiltiest hand-in-the-cookie-jar look on his face. I thought this was the weird thing of it all. I'm not the best judge of social circumstances, but I'm VERY keen on catching subtle facial expressions for some reason. No doubts, it was a big guilt look. Anyway, classmate's wife quickly chastises him for greeting me in English, not Arabic, and she bursts into this cackling laughter then walks away (lol). It had nothing to do with the hugging or whatever.

So, instance two, at another get together months later he came again, and we ended up (about a dozen people) in a big projector room in the dark watching a movie he brought for us from Egypt. I was sitting in the front row off to one very end talking to that old man again while my professor got up from the opposite end of the row to introduce the film. While he was doing so the old man got up and went home (it was getting late) and when he was finished with his intro my professor came and sat next to me. So, we watched this film in the dark (not alone in the room though) and at one point I was confused about something and leaned in to whisper a very simple question about where the character was. In return my professor leaned in and put his arm around me and whispered in my ear for about 2 minutes (it ended up being a sort of back and forth whispering conversation) about the setting and Egypt and its cities etcetera.

Lastly, for our final class session we had a final and then went out to a local Arabic restaurant. During this dinner where we were all seated at a long table, the class clown decided to get up and he started belly dancing. About a half dozen of us including myself whipped out our phones and started recording. My video ended up lasting about 30 seconds, 29 of which were of this guy dancing like a fool and us laughing in the back ground. The last second was of the people across the table from me laughing, so that was my professor directly across from me and two guys on either side of him. It was just a very brief frame in the video.

That night I went home and sent it to a guy friend from the class, commenting about how funny our dancing colleague had been, and my friend's immediate reaction was "whoa, why is our professor staring at you like that?" I hadn't noticed what he was talking about before, but when I went back and really watched the last second I could kind of see that our teacher was staring across the table straight at me, not our dancing classmate where everyone else had been looking. So, I sent the same video to another friend outside of the class, and she picked up on the same thing right away.

So in some respects I'm not the most brilliant social analyst, and I can't be objective about something I'm in the middle of. All I'm sure of is he understands Western culture and its implications, and that guilty look I mentioned before was sure and blatant. Also, on my part and mostly his, I'm certain that any "crushy" feelings or flirty behaviors were NOT evident in class. No one ever made any teasing remarks towards me about this or even referenced it, and there were only a few passing comments about how HE seemed to respond to me during the semester.

Some uncertain insight on my part, is that I feel like maybe (big maybe) he's confused with his marriage. Sometimes when we'd get close and lean in to joke about something privately or find a moment where we were talking in seclusion, he'd look at me with this truly happy look, but also what seemed like a quiet sort of sorrow or guilt of sorts. Not that "just got caught with his hand in the cookie jar" guilt look he got from my classmate's wife, but a deeper more internal, subtler guilt.

This all being said, what do you think? Is he into me? Not into me? Is it a passing crush from him? Something deeper? Is he just confused? How do you think his marriage, his daughter, our ages and roles play into this for him, if at all.

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Well, I think he's a middle aged married man with a family who he probably loves and he wants to have his cake and eat it. Doubt your the first he's done it to either and you probably won't be the last. You can try and romanticize things if you want, but it basically comes down to him wanting to screw a young girl who isn't his wife. Maybe he thinks you're gullible enough to fall for it too?

Edited by Cat_From_Hell
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Cat pretty much hit it on the head.

Many people, and in particular those from cultures where people don't as freely express themselves, mistake friendly gestures for something more meaningful. A question to you, Miss Shadows, that might seem a bit 'sharp' but is not ill-intentioned at all - are you flirting with the teacher because the attention feels good, or are you unaware that you may be flirting with the teacher?

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Well I certainly didn't mean to 'romanticize' and no, I've thought about it and asked some objective colleagues, and I can't think of any point where I've committed what most reasonable people would construe as 'flirting'. I am used to being friendly with professors who are invested in a field of focus for me, but in a professional manner. Make sense? Be it language or law, two big things I need in my career plans, having contacts and letters of recommendation etc can go a looong way, so it's important to network while still in school, not wait.

Cat could be right, and logically that would make sense to an extent. No offense but we know how guys are, and infidelity, middle aged fantasies and so on are heard of too often. The only reason I reserve total agreement with this is that as he's mentored me through the semester, showing me external language resources and connecting me to information about study abroad language programs, I've taken some time to get to know him a bit, and he genuinely seems like a clean character. I don't think he's looking to take any actions or cheat or anything like that. He doesn't seem weasley to me, and believe me I've met my share of teachers like that High School to college.

Obviously you don't 'know' someone in 5 months, but I just don't get that vibe from him, nor do any of my classmates I've asked one way or another.

Leonardo, no offense taken at all, I think that's a valid question. I'm not interested in this man romantically, as I said in my Op, so I'm professionally social but certainly not 'flirting' with him. Unconsciously? I can't answer that nyself, but I had had that concern, so again I surveyed some class mates whose responses were unanimously that I was polite engaged and friendly, but not flirting. Yes, he's from a different culture but as I stated he's been in the West for decades now, so I'm confident in dealing with him and knowing a lot about his back ground that he's got a full anf thorough understanding of our culture and it'd implications. I think in other words he would get that I'm just being friendly and interested in the actual class and looking to make academic contacts.

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Well I certainly didn't mean to 'romanticize' and no, I've thought about it and asked some objective colleagues, and I can't think of any point where I've committed what most reasonable people would construe as 'flirting'. I am used to being friendly with professors who are invested in a field of focus for me, but in a professional manner. Make sense? Be it language or law, two big things I need in my career plans, having contacts and letters of recommendation etc can go a looong way, so it's important to network while still in school, not wait.

Cat could be right, and logically that would make sense to an extent. No offense but we know how guys are, and infidelity, middle aged fantasies and so on are heard of too often. The only reason I reserve total agreement with this is that as he's mentored me through the semester, showing me external language resources and connecting me to information about study abroad language programs, I've taken some time to get to know him a bit, and he genuinely seems like a clean character. I don't think he's looking to take any actions or cheat or anything like that. He doesn't seem weasley to me, and believe me I've met my share of teachers like that High School to college.

Obviously you don't 'know' someone in 5 months, but I just don't get that vibe from him, nor do any of my classmates I've asked one way or another.

Leonardo, no offense taken at all, I think that's a valid question. I'm not interested in this man romantically, as I said in my Op, so I'm professionally social but certainly not 'flirting' with him. Unconsciously? I can't answer that nyself, but I had had that concern, so again I surveyed some class mates whose responses were unanimously that I was polite engaged and friendly, but not flirting. Yes, he's from a different culture but as I stated he's been in the West for decades now, so I'm confident in dealing with him and knowing a lot about his back ground that he's got a full anf thorough understanding of our culture and it'd implications. I think in other words he would get that I'm just being friendly and interested in the actual class and looking to make academic contacts.

Thank you for being reasonable, Miss Shadows. I didn't know if you would get upset at my asking a personal, and searching, question.

I would suggest that your definition of 'flirting' might be more restrictive than most, however. If I was in a dark cinema and, in a conversation with someone that someone put their arm around me I would certainly construe that as them flirting - and if I didn't suggest they remove their arm then I would be flirting in return. I might further suggest that your classmates might not be fully aware of the situation, especially if Cat is right and this person has 'prior' so is clever in ensuring his actions are discreet.

Perhaps you are uncomfortable in asking people to maintain the proper boundary between friendly and flirting behaviour? If you are 'shy' in this respect, then please be aware that shyness might lead to such situations you find yourself in, with one person misunderstanding that shyness for a "green light".

Edited by Leonardo
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Well if you don't think it's a big deal why are you making it one?

If you know yourself and know that you aren't interested in him other than as a professor and less than casual more friendly acquaintance it doesn't really matter what is going on.

Most flirting is harmless and unless you feel that he is being too forward (that he is doing things he wouldn't in front of his wife or you wouldn't in front of his wife) don't bother about it.

Mabon.

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Well if you don't think it's a big deal why are you making it one?

If you know yourself and know that you aren't interested in him other than as a professor and less than casual more friendly acquaintance it doesn't really matter what is going on.

Most flirting is harmless and unless you feel that he is being too forward (that he is doing things he wouldn't in front of his wife or you wouldn't in front of his wife) don't bother about it.

Mabon.

Well I'm interested in hearing interpretations of what's going on here. I don't need someone's permission to be curious, hun.

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Thank you for being reasonable, Miss Shadows. I didn't know if you would get upset at my asking a personal, and searching, question.

I would suggest that your definition of 'flirting' might be more restrictive than most, however. If I was in a dark cinema and, in a conversation with someone that someone put their arm around me I would certainly construe that as them flirting - and if I didn't suggest they remove their arm then I would be flirting in return. I might further suggest that your classmates might not be fully aware of the situation, especially if Cat is right and this person has 'prior' so is clever in ensuring his actions are discreet.

Perhaps you are uncomfortable in asking people to maintain the proper boundary between friendly and flirting behaviour? If you are 'shy' in this respect, then please be aware that shyness might lead to such situations you find yourself in, with one person misunderstanding that shyness for a "green light".

Again, some of these are valid points. First of all I'm not shy in this respect, I've had teachers flirt with me, show romantic/sexual interest in me in the past, so I have a good deal of experience in this field. Also, something I didn't think would be relevant in my OP but I might as well mention now, the semester that he taught my class was the first he's ever taught in a co-ed environment. The only other teaching experience he had was as a language instructor for the Navy Seals who needed to learn Arabic. I live in a large coastal and military dense city, so that's that.

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Idk if Cat is still with us, but Leo what do you think? Sex driven flirting? Teacherly-friendliness? Other?

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If you are not interested in him in a romantic sense then I wouldn't worry about it all too much. He could just be friendly, maybe he has a crush on you, or maybe he wants to have an affair with you? No one on these forums can determine his intentions, even though you have tried to describe his behaviour as thoroughly as possible, the only person who really knows is this guy.

I'm a friendly person and I hug and kiss (peck on cheek or lips depending how good friends we are) most of my friends and family. I'm a touchy feely person, it's just how I am. Some people may read more in to my behaviour if they are not used to it, or don't realise I am like that with most people.

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Interesting, Moon. Thanks for responding. I'm a bit huggy feely too but strictly with close friends and family. Anyway, I guess the way people behave sometimes fascinates me, or drives me a little stir crazy lol. Social dynamics can be ever complex and multi-layered, and I love to write, so I'm always picking apart my dealings with one or another.

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Idk if Cat is still with us, but Leo what do you think? Sex driven flirting? Teacherly-friendliness? Other?

Given the visual clues you have already related, I would suggest he is sexually interested. If you don't wish to reciprocate then I would also suggest you set some boundaries with the teacher - not in your mind, but in discussion with him. Don't make excuses for him in your mind by 'allowing' him to take advantage of his position, age or any cultural differences. Don't be so confident you can 'read people', and don't just let the situation develop further without communicating that, in your mind, this is purely teacher/student. It might be a bit cold, but being 'uber-friendly' with someone in such a position is probably asking for trouble - if not directly, then indirectly if his family object to such closeness.

If it was just teacher-friendliness then you wouldn't be the sole object of his physical 'attention'.

Edited by Leonardo
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Well I'm interested in hearing interpretations of what's going on here. I don't need someone's permission to be curious, hun.

Never once did you say you didn't like the attention so this isn't about being curious of social dynamics it is about how others perceive you. What I feel is the most important, as I pointed out in my first post is, if you know your intentions are innocent then it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. That's clearly not the interpretation you want to hear but is the one I gave.

Dance around it all you like and try to make it seem like it's about him but if you wouldn't behave this way in front of his wife you know what you're doing is wrong. It's not complicated at all.

Mabon.

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... I wouldn't say I'm really interested in this man, but rather I'm interested in the social interpretations of this. I don't always read things like this so accurately,

...differing cultures, he's married, and he seems like a good, honest guy.

... the guiltiest hand-in-the-cookie-jar look on his face. I thought this was the weird thing of it all. I'm not the best judge of social circumstances, but I'm VERY keen on catching subtle facial expressions for some reason. No doubts, it was a big guilt look. Anyway, classmate's wife quickly chastises him for greeting me in English, not Arabic, and she bursts into this cackling laughter then walks away (lol). It had nothing to do with the hugging or whatever.

...and leaned in to whisper a very simple question about where the character was. In return my professor leaned in and put his arm around me and whispered in my ear for about 2 minutes (it ended up being a sort of back and forth whispering conversation) about the setting and Egypt and its cities etcetera.

... my friend's immediate reaction was "whoa, why is our professor staring at you like that?" I hadn't noticed what he was talking about before, but when I went back and really watched the last second I could kind of see that our teacher was staring across the table straight at me, not our dancing classmate where everyone else had been looking. So, I sent the same video to another friend outside of the class, and she picked up on the same thing right away.

... I'm certain that any "crushy" feelings or flirty behaviors were NOT evident in class. No one ever made any teasing remarks towards me about this or even referenced it, and there were only a few passing comments about how HE seemed to respond to me during the semester.

Some uncertain insight on my part, is that I feel like maybe (big maybe) he's confused with his marriage. Sometimes when we'd get close and lean in to joke about something privately or find a moment where we were talking in seclusion, he'd look at me with this truly happy look, but also what seemed like a quiet sort of sorrow or guilt of sorts. Not that "just got caught with his hand in the cookie jar" guilt look he got from my classmate's wife, but a deeper more internal, subtler guilt.

This all being said, what do you think? Is he into me? Not into me? Is it a passing crush from him? Something deeper? Is he just confused? How do you think his marriage, his daughter, our ages and roles play into this for him, if at all.

Based on the sentences I left in place from your story I will tell you what I think. This man is married with a child so, first of all, I don't know why you haven't totally stopped feeding into his behavior. It doesn't matter what culture he is from, giving the *extra* attention to another woman when you are married is a universal language and fairly easy to spot and discourage. I don't see what the big question is here? People typically respond to and react in a way they feel is okay and safe from clues given by others so, whether you realize it or not, you are sending him signals that you *like* his attention and behaviors. The look of guilt on his part says to me he knows *exactly* what he is doing. If you can't find a way to politely discourage his behaviors in the classroom setting I would suggest you not make yourself so "front and center" and try to blend in with the rest of the students more. There's nothing to be analyzed here. There are no differences between cultures in the mating dances of a man and woman. However, men usually stop when they realize it's *not* gonna happen. That's the missing link here. You can think he's a nice, straight-up and honest guy but he's acting as if he's not. He is acting in a way that is not very honest towards his wife...so *no* that's not honest at all. I would suggest not going to any of the out-of-class parties and dinners, get through the class and cut all ties with this man. It's not okay to allow this behavior to continue, unless of course you know exactly what you are doing and want to bed him. Edited by She-ra
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Ted Bundy even had Ann Rule fooled. Your story sounds like an excerpt from chapter one of any of her true crime books.

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So I'd listen to what Mabon had to say. It's pretty well accurate.

However, that being said, and this is a sweeping generalization, I've noticed many Egyptian men are quite handsy, they're kind of touchers... Its not always a bad thing, it's just a cultural difference. I also find that they aren't the most subtle flirters either. If they're flirting, it's usually pretty darn identifiable as such.

I can't say what's going on from your description although your explanation was very descriptive. That's why Mabon's answer works best.

Edited by MissMelsWell
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  • 2 weeks later...

Here is my insight in to this....

First and foremost, if he is interested in you, you need to look inward and see if the "whole married thing" is ok for you. I have been with my husband for 17 years and have yet to stray. However, realize that if you do decide to have a casual thing, realize that some folks may get hurt. Every marriage is different. Some are open, some are closed. If I were faced with this situation 20 years ago, I may have indulged. Today, it would not happen. It's really not where I want to be.

Secondly, realize that this is a private situation. What you both, as consenting adults, choose to do is your business. I will state that I feel the "danger" may be an added benefit. His wife is most likely pregnant with her second child. That is when most men who stray, do so. The first child, they get excited. The second is just a waiting game.

I do hope that you take the time to look at this from both sides. You also may wish to express your concerns or feelings or perceptions to him. I wish you the best for a delicate situation. Obviously you are interested or this conversation would not be here.

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