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"Christian" is a useless term


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#91    Mr Walker

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 11:16 PM

View PostVigilanis, on 27 October 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

I think Christianity has become so dilluted and subjective that the term is useless, there are plenty of groups that only choose selective parts of the bible, some that believe in one part of the bible and not the other...it is a mess. People are welcome to their beliefs and I respect everyone for theirs, but the whole thing has become like Chinese whispers.....i'm sorry to make light of the situation but I think Arnold J Rimmer summed up how the Christian religion works...

Rimmer: I never agreed with my parents’ religion but I wouldn’t dream of knocking it.
Lister: What were they?
Rimmer: Seventh Day Advent Hoppists. They believed that every Sunday should be spent hopping. They would hop to church, hop through the service and hop back home again.
Lister: What’s the idea behind that then?
Rimmer: Well, they took the Bible literally. Adam and Eve, the snake and the apple, everything. Took it word for word. Unfortunately their version had a misprint. It was all based on 1 Corinthians 13, where it says “faith, hop and charity, and the greatest of these is hop.” So that’s what they did every seventh day. I tell you, Sunday lunchtimes were a nightmare. Hopping around the table serving soup. We all had to wear sou’esters and asbestos underwear.


If they were seventh day hoppists, who took their bible that literaly they would spend saturday hopping. It is, after all, the seventh day of the week and hence the biblicla sabbath. Shows how troublesome it is for the ill informed to make an accurate joke about religion.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#92    Arbenol

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 11:31 PM

View PostParanoid Android, on 27 October 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

One could counter by arguing that the perversion lies with modern society and the sexualisation of our culture that has demeaned that which should be sacred by making it a throwaway matter that is "normal", even expected as a rite of passage into manhood (or womanhood).

Who's to say it's a 'modern' phenomenon? What you call the 'sexualisation' of our culture could easily be viewed as a recovery from the sexual repression of previous generations. Which is more harmful is debatable.

And, why should sexual activity be 'sacred'? That implies religious significance and veneration. There's no objectivity in stating that - only opinion.


#93    Paranoid Android

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 12:12 AM

View PostArbenol68, on 27 October 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

Who's to say it's a 'modern' phenomenon? What you call the 'sexualisation' of our culture could easily be viewed as a recovery from the sexual repression of previous generations. Which is more harmful is debatable.
I suppose it depends on your world view, which was my point in a sense.


Quote

And, why should sexual activity be 'sacred'? That implies religious significance and veneration. There's no objectivity in stating that - only opinion.
Sacredness does not necessarily require religious frames of reference. It could just as easily refer to the institution of marriage, and the idea of sex only within a marriage union. But you are correct, it is an opinion that sex is sacred to marriage. But saying sex is not sacred to marriage is also an opinion!

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#94    Heroic Bishop

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:15 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 27 October 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

If they were seventh day hoppists, who took their bible that literaly they would spend saturday hopping. It is, after all, the seventh day of the week and hence the biblicla sabbath. Shows how troublesome it is for the ill informed to make an accurate joke about religion.

Or it indeed re-enforces my point, that the Christian religion has become so convoluted that this script written by someone else, quite accurately satirizes the mess of confusion inherent within the religion...

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#95    Frank Merton

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:03 AM

View PostParanoid Android, on 27 October 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

One could counter by arguing that the perversion lies with modern society and the sexualisation of our culture that has demeaned that which should be sacred by making it a throwaway matter that is "normal", even expected as a rite of passage into manhood (or womanhood).
No I don't see where one "could argue" that.


#96    Paranoid Android

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 11:27 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 28 October 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

No I don't see where one "could argue" that.
Obviously you've never watched Saturday morning music videos. Just one example, of course, of this sexualisation of our culture.

It seems you can't see where I'm coming from which most likely means our world views are so different that very little common ground exists. But I do ask - does that make one of our views more correct?

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#97    Frank Merton

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 11:37 AM

I remember walking around Amsterdam and there all of a sudden was a big billboard of a naked couple advertising something (I don't remember what, which may be a comment on the value of such ads).

What does this tell me other than that Amsterdam is a freer city than any in the States.

Every generation is shocked by the excesses of the next; it has nothing to do with religion except to say that religion should moralize where true harms and hurts are involved (and sometimes this involves sexuality) and be careful it not condemn things that do no harm or minimal harm.

I think where we differ is that I try to have a rational basis for my morals whereas you use traditional "received" rules.  Also, I might say that I perceive pleasure in and of itself a positive benefit.


#98    Paranoid Android

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 12:13 PM

And in a world where 60% of American marriages fail, and close to 50% of Australian marriages fail, what part of this harms those involved?

Yes, I'm blaming the sexualisation of society for the poor marriage statistics. Perhaps if society had a different view of marriage things would not be so out and out crazy.

If sexualisation is to blame then what counter do they have to the questions of the traditional marriage union - and what blame is laid for single families (where only one parent raises a child).

For our differences, I'd happily accept views that work rather than make up my own rules that are totally doghouse.

Edited by Paranoid Android, 28 October 2013 - 12:16 PM.

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#99    Frank Merton

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 12:20 PM

I don't blame the divorce rates on the sexualization of society but on liberation; divorce is no longer a social or economic kiss of death, and courts no longer make it almost impossible.  Therefore people are able to more easily break harmful and destructive relationships.


#100    scowl

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 04:14 PM

The last Christian (at least she claimed to be one) I went out with had been divorced four times.

She admitted she got married a lot because, as a Christian, she felt that sex outside of marriage is a sin.


#101    Mr Walker

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 11:37 PM

View PostVigilanis, on 28 October 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Or it indeed re-enforces my point, that the Christian religion has become so convoluted that this script written by someone else, quite accurately satirizes the mess of confusion inherent within the religion...

Yes it does that too. I was considering that point in regards to ignorance. Many people are; first ignorant of the bible, and second ignorant of other branches of Christianity, let alone other religions And yet, in ill informed ignorance, they still feel comfortable making both inaccurate jokes and inaccurate assessments of  religion.

So many people judge religions without any comprehension at all of what belief means to, and does for, the individual believers. Yet even a little reading of historical fact or fiction will show how religion, as an integral part of peoples' lives, offered the only solace and comfort available to them in times when, for example, half of all women died in childbirth and 70% of children never survived to puberty. When a scratch or a fever could kill a healthy adult. When most people had to have their teeth pulled out without anaesthetic, because they were rotted and infected,  and so on.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#102    Mr Walker

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 11:45 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 28 October 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

I don't blame the divorce rates on the sexualization of society but on liberation; divorce is no longer a social or economic kiss of death, and courts no longer make it almost impossible.  Therefore people are able to more easily break harmful and destructive relationships.
And yet most modern divorces are not the result of harmful/destructive relationships, but of selfishness, sexual infidelity, or a desire to do better for oneself.  Sometimes it has been the result of increased female emancipation and expectation, when males have not yet been liberated from their traditional roles in life. But largely it is simply thi.s women can now live alone and cope economically. Once upon a time this was impossible.  Until the mid to late 1800s, a woman was her fathers property until she married, when she became her husband's property. In return they had to maintain her and care for her as she provided her role as mother and home maker.

Fortunately in Australia, at least, divorce rates have levelled out and dropped considerably in recent years

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#103    docyabut2

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 11:58 PM

View PostJ. K., on 17 October 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

The term "Christian" is almost meaningless.  Although there is only one Church - the body of Christ, essentially the avatar of Jesus - there are many, many denominations, groups, movements, and belief systems.  One person who calls himself Christian may actually have diametric beliefs to another Christian.  All of this can make it difficult to discuss Christianity without identifying specific beliefs and influences.

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Posted Image Jhn 15:2
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Posted Image Jhn 15:3
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Posted Image Jhn 15:4
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Posted Image Jhn 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Posted Image Jhn 15:6
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Posted Image   There are many branches of Chistianity but if you abide in him there is no problem:)
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.


#104    Paranoid Android

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:32 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 28 October 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

I don't blame the divorce rates on the sexualization of society but on liberation; divorce is no longer a social or economic kiss of death, and courts no longer make it almost impossible.  Therefore people are able to more easily break harmful and destructive relationships.
Are 60% of relationships in America harmful and destructive?

Or are people just selfish. When they no longer get what they want they move on to a better booty call.

Edited by Paranoid Android, 29 October 2013 - 12:33 AM.

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#105    Paranoid Android

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:34 AM

View Postscowl, on 28 October 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

The last Christian (at least she claimed to be one) I went out with had been divorced four times.

She admitted she got married a lot because, as a Christian, she felt that sex outside of marriage is a sin.
What did she think about divorce being a sin in God's eyes?

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My blog is now taking a new direction.  Dedicated to my father who was a great inspiration in my life, I wish to honour his memory (RIP, dad) by sharing with the world what he had always kept to himself.  More details, http://www.unexplain...showentry=27811




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