Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

US servicewomen challenge combat role ban


  • Please log in to reply
57 replies to this topic

#31    DieChecker

DieChecker

    I'm a Rogue Scholar

  • Member
  • 16,836 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, Oregon, USA

  • Hey, I'm not wrong. I'm just not completely right.

Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:48 AM

View PostTaun, on 29 November 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

2. The very real possibility that standards for Infantry "persons" would be lowered to account for physical ability differences between the genders... A 'leg' Infantrymans combat load is pretty heavy - moreso if they are a specialist (communications, heavy weapons, etc) a fully loaded out infantryman can easily carry an extra 80 -100 pounds - routinely... That is about 3/4ths of what a typically fit female will weigh... Airborne Infantry can carry even more at times - after all if you don't bring it with you, you don't have it...

....

4. Morale loss at home due to larger numbers of young females returning home dead... This may sound chauvanistic to some - and perhaps it is... but emotionally we, as a society, are more shocked by the death of a young woman than we are by the death of a young man ... Both are tragic, and both are equally painful to the family, but society as a whole is more willing to accept the loss of a male soldier than a female one...  This can lead to loss of morale - or equally possible - heightened anger at the enemy - resulting in escalation...

I have to agree with these two points. When I was a Combat Engineer, there were times were I had to carry my SAW, a 30 pound rucksack of gear, a 20 pound demolision bag, and one or two 40 pound shape or cratering charges... and come out of our M113 RUNNING, at night, in the woods, for hundreds of yards at a time.It is not work for Gloria from Tiffanys Manhattan.

But, if a woman has the physical ability, I'd say let her do it. It might be trouble... maybe a LOT of trouble... at first. But, eventually things would settle down.

I can imagine an infantry company of 100 people, with 95 guys and 5 women being very tense sexually, with 90% of the guys being 18 to 24 years old. I was 23 when I went in and was the Grandpa of my basic training. Of like 100 guys, I was one of like 6 or 7 that were old enough to buy liquor. I think everyone, except young men, that young men are extremely Stupid.

I also agree that if women were lost in hand to hand fighting, or captured, the New media would crucify the military in the Court of Public Appeal.

View PostDrayno, on 29 November 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

If a woman wants to fight and die for their country.

So be it.

Let women fight.
Agree. As long as they can perform their job to expectations.

However, the military already has different expectations for females.

The PT test requires less then half the number of push ups and sit ups for women compared to men of the same age.
http://usmilitary.ab...army/a/afpt.htm

View PostBabe Ruth, on 29 November 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

However, (and he understands this just like many did back in 1970) you, him and me might have THOUGHT we were serving our country, but in reality, we were serving the government, and the two are not the same.

Our country and its government are 2 separate entities.  They are not the same thing, though the powers-that-be are thrilled when people think they are the same.  Indeed, the propaganda ALWAYS blends the two and makes them indistinguishable.
Yet the sacrifice of those who join the military is not diminished, it is the government uses of the military that should be held up to Public Scorn, not the military itself. It is like blaming teachers for student failures, when their hands are tied by Federal, State and Local laws.

Edited by DieChecker, 30 November 2012 - 06:53 AM.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#32    Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 8,186 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:27North 80West

Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:42 PM

View PostDredimus, on 29 November 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Dont forget that this thread isnt about my intentions or "nobility"... its about equal rights and the fact that these women want to serve as equals their male counterparts. I have no delusions about what our government is, if you, any of you, would take the time to read anything I post you would see that I am for the people, not the government. The current AND past administrations have so damaged this country in the last 50 years that its almost unrecognizable. As far as the government is concerned, you could call me a minimalist. They should keep their noses out of industry and let people live for themselves. As for my time in the middle east, yes, that was for my country. Those who are not there, truely do not know. It is my humble opinion that its better to stop the enemy abroad that to wait for them to land on my porch. The last time they knocked on our door, we lost thousands of lives.  Now to your bolded statement. Please explain this "Empire" theory. Because when I sit back and take it all in, I dont see it as empire building...... Now, the romans had an empire, they moved in, conquered an area and then left behind their own people to control what was left of the decimated population. This is also the same thing the Russians did to Afghanistan...... Conquer and rule as a tyrant. Now, the US has moved in and changed alot of that. Now, if you are talking about the fuel situation.... Why would we be building an empire for China? As thats who will be building the pipeline the conspiracy nuts yelp about constantly.

A good post, showing a few misunderstandings.

The central misunderstanding, and a common one held by many, is that the events of 11 September were as represented.

They were not.  They were staged by bad guys in very influential positions within the US government, and within the international community.

Saddam Hussein's ragtag and defeated army, non-existent navy and air force, were no more a threat to the US than the man in the moon.

But you're right that the thread is about women serving in combat.  Generally speaking, I'm against it for the reasons I've already posted here.

That said, the Pentagon has never once in my life, even when I was in the US Army, asked my opinion about anything.


#33    Wyrdlight

Wyrdlight

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,091 posts
  • Joined:14 Jun 2009

Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:07 PM

View Postpallidin, on 30 November 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

No, no, no.

The real problem is young service men and women wanting to have sex, thus leaving(or not observing) their assigned posts.

Then, as stated previously, the natural instinct for a male to protect a female which "might" compromise a hard mission.

Just my opinion. Nothing against women at all.

Men and women want to have sex all the time, regardless of thier job, you dont tend to see office workers running off to broom cuboards in pairs to roger each other after 20 mins.

Male and femal police manage to work side by side without being overcome with lust mid arrest, ignore the suspect and leap into the back of the nearest car to get it on.

We are not slave to our base instincts and that such wants exist has no bearing on a persons employment be it in the armed forces or otherwise.


#34    Dredimus

Dredimus

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 868 posts
  • Joined:21 Dec 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Huntsville, Al

Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:32 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 30 November 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

A good post, showing a few misunderstandings.

The central misunderstanding, and a common one held by many, is that the events of 11 September were as represented.

They were not.  They were staged by bad guys in very influential positions within the US government, and within the international community.

Saddam Hussein's ragtag and defeated army, non-existent navy and air force, were no more a threat to the US than the man in the moon.

But you're right that the thread is about women serving in combat.  Generally speaking, I'm against it for the reasons I've already posted here.

That said, the Pentagon has never once in my life, even when I was in the US Army, asked my opinion about anything.


Just because you keep repeating a conspiracy theory doesnt make it true. We have been over this with one another several times and you have yet to provide proof of anything. So please dont try to use it as a factual basis of arguement.


#35    Corp

Corp

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 6,950 posts
  • Joined:19 Jun 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ottawa

Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:14 PM

View Postpallidin, on 30 November 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

No, no, no.

The real problem is young service men and women wanting to have sex, thus leaving(or not observing) their assigned posts.

Then, as stated previously, the natural instinct for a male to protect a female which "might" compromise a hard mission.

Just my opinion. Nothing against women at all.

Based on the experence of the other nations who already have women serving in combat, and have had them serving for decades, this is not a problem at all.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#36    Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 8,186 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:27North 80West

Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:31 PM

View PostDredimus, on 30 November 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

Just because you keep repeating a conspiracy theory doesnt make it true. We have been over this with one another several times and you have yet to provide proof of anything. So please dont try to use it as a factual basis of arguement.

Just because you keep repeating a conspiracy theory, and just because the government and the media ALSO repeat that theory, does not make it true.  You offer a sword that cuts both ways.

Mine is not really a conspiracy theory, although one could certainly be developed.  Mine is a simple statement supported by the preponderance of the circumstantial evidence--the official theory is a lie.  It is false, and it is grossly inaccurate.

Yet, it is the very foundation of your world view, and for you it is a justification for the expenditure of blood and treasure.

That's a personal problem soldier, and it ain't mine. :no:


#37    DieChecker

DieChecker

    I'm a Rogue Scholar

  • Member
  • 16,836 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, Oregon, USA

  • Hey, I'm not wrong. I'm just not completely right.

Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:21 PM

View PostWyrdlight, on 30 November 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

Men and women want to have sex all the time, regardless of thier job, you dont tend to see office workers running off to broom cuboards in pairs to roger each other after 20 mins.

Male and femal police manage to work side by side without being overcome with lust mid arrest, ignore the suspect and leap into the back of the nearest car to get it on.

We are not slave to our base instincts and that such wants exist has no bearing on a persons employment be it in the armed forces or otherwise.
But, those police officers don't live together and end up isolated for weeks or months at a time in close quarters... now do they.

Yet, police still have fratinization rules that same as the military to discourage issues that are bound to come up, even in a civilian setting.

View PostCorp, on 30 November 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

Based on the experence of the other nations who already have women serving in combat, and have had them serving for decades, this is not a problem at all.
And Americans don't treat sex the way that other nations do. In France and Germany you'll find topless ads in the newspapers.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#38    Dredimus

Dredimus

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 868 posts
  • Joined:21 Dec 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Huntsville, Al

Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:25 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 30 November 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

Just because you keep repeating a conspiracy theory, and just because the government and the media ALSO repeat that theory, does not make it true.  You offer a sword that cuts both ways.

Mine is not really a conspiracy theory, although one could certainly be developed.  Mine is a simple statement supported by the preponderance of the circumstantial evidence--the official theory is a lie.  It is false, and it is grossly inaccurate.

Yet, it is the very foundation of your world view, and for you it is a justification for the expenditure of blood and treasure.

That's a personal problem soldier, and it ain't mine. :no:


   Im not going to argue this with you again, its useless. Lets not derail this thread any further. If the topic at hand were up for a vote, id say Hell Yes.


#39    Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 8,186 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:27North 80West

Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:36 PM

I'm still ambivalent about whether women should be allowed in combat, but tending against it, for the simple reason that fraternization between the sexes probably works against combat readiness and efficiency.


#40    aztek

aztek

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 5,370 posts
  • Joined:12 Nov 2006

Posted 01 December 2012 - 05:08 PM

**** aclu, first they  challenge so females can go to combat, but after dozens or so casualties they will sue army for not providing safe posts, and not ensuring their safety.

imo, this challenge has to be dropped, and aclu declared terrorist organisation, and let females soldgers take care of threat. if female soldgers anything like female cops, i feel sorry for entire aclu.

Edited by aztek, 01 December 2012 - 05:09 PM.

RESIDENT TROLL.

#41    Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 8,186 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:27North 80West

Posted 01 December 2012 - 07:45 PM

Seems like if you can't spell it, you don't know what one is.

When a person criticizes an outfit that defends the USConstitution, we're in a pretty sad state.

Which I already knew.... :no:


#42    aztek

aztek

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 5,370 posts
  • Joined:12 Nov 2006

Posted 01 December 2012 - 07:50 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 01 December 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

Seems like if you can't spell it, you don't know what one is.

When a person criticizes an outfit that defends the USConstitution, we're in a pretty sad state.

Which I already knew.... :no:

comming from you it has a lot of weight, lol, NOT

RESIDENT TROLL.

#43    Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 8,186 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:27North 80West

Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:49 PM

Considering the source Aztek, I am flattered! :tsu:


#44    Render

Render

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,080 posts
  • Joined:23 Nov 2009
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:31 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 30 November 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

But, those police officers don't live together and end up isolated for weeks or months at a time in close quarters... now do they.

Yet, police still have fratinization rules that same as the military to discourage issues that are bound to come up, even in a civilian setting.

And Americans don't treat sex the way that other nations do. In France and Germany you'll find topless ads in the newspapers.

No you don't ... Jesus.. what is it with you Americans thinking Europe is showing naked ppl everywhere. Americans show far more sexually graphic images everywhere than Europeans.
In America you could have half naked billboards on busses and every streetcorner. That's not the case in Europe. Get your facts straight.


#45    Render

Render

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,080 posts
  • Joined:23 Nov 2009
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:39 AM

From the article:

Quote

The lawsuit launched on Tuesday says they are barred from 238,000 positions, but also alleges that they are already serving unofficially in combat units.

So all the ppl using arguments that it's impossible for women and that men start to act like beasts on viagra should review their opinions since it's already a reality, but it's unofficial.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users