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Big business, is it worth it?


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#16    Falco Rex

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 08:57 AM

Sorry Aztec; I've had some personal family problems here and I haven't given Rambo the prompt attention he deserves here; but I shall endeavor to do my best in response..

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That is true, but look towards the future, say the year...2012. Wal-Marts are going to have to change their ways and become a good, moral store or else fear being illegalized. How are they going to do this? They're not going to actually become moral, that will kill their income. What they will do, however, is mask their inappropriate ethics by doing favors to small business like they have already done, such as posting advertisements in their stores.
So it is a Win-win situation for small business. Big boxes either collapse or attempt to shield their immorality through directly benefitting them. What more could they ask for?


So you are actually admitting that what big business does is wrong and immoral..It's a short jump from there to being downright illegal..
Wait..
You admitted that earlier when we were talking of Wal-Marts hiring policies on benefits and also the employment of illegal immigrants..
So where exactly does the glowing reference of big business come into play?
I know we may have agreed slightly on a more level playing field; and of big business helping small; but not on the particulars, I think..
Does Satan really promote true belief in God?
It's almost the same topic without religion,of course..
Fear and condescension may bring in a few dollars here and there; but by no means does it build a solid foundation for small business success..That only comes from the big boys in Washington relinquishing thier love of subsidy checks and lobbying dollars in favor of the betterment of the general economy...
Frankly; in the course of this debate, you've not brought a single point to bear that could contradict that thought; nor do I even expect you to find one..
Why?
Simply because it isn't possible. To do so would be putting the welfare of the many above the one, and most politicians are unable to do so..

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Your not gonna go buy some milk at Wal-Mart. What if a kid wants to go out and buy some baseball cards? Only the best are at those local stores. Almost everyone has a unique passion, whether it is baseball, PEZ collecting, glassblowing, etc. Wal-Mart DOES NOT HAVE IT.


I'm sorry to burst a bubble of positivity; I really am; but Wal-Mart has all of those things..Really..
I'm not being a jerk here. Just shop in one..You'll see them all..So much for the unique market..

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First of all, Subways are seldom in big box retailers.


Really? Because there's one in each of the Wal-Marts in my town alone..Tells you something about the larger picture..And yes; there are more; not just in Lafayette, Indiana..

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then go to Pottery Barn right next door.


Pottery Barn is also a chain franchise; in case you missed it; and Big Al is more than likely loading his food up with MSG just to compete with the Texas Road House just down the block..
That's the sad state we've come to..

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Times have changed and remember, they're still a'changin'.


...And nowhere in that sentence does it imply that the times are changing for the better..

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Thanks, I'll buy a couple of necessities, eat some quality food, and then fulfill my true passion-All thanks to the "monopoly"! And yes, I'll enjoy my stay.


Necessities are a gauranteed trip to whatever store you choose..As to quality; that's relative and subjective..What you consider quality may be absolute crap to me..Is McHeartProblems really quality?
Nor do I know what your true passion is..
If it's smothering entrepeneurship; you're well on your way with your argument so far..
In addition; is Wal-Marts' example the only one you have to use in a sea of monopolies?
If so; it's pretty weak; but so far it's all you've had to offer not only myself; but also our judges..
One huge company cannot convince us of the merits of all of them..

















#17    RamboIII

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 07:17 PM

The wait is nothing, my friend, as long as I know it was for something serious. Let us continue..

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So you are actually admitting that what big business does is wrong and immoral..It's a short jump from there to being downright illegal..


Yes, and through that, small businesses are benefitted. It is, yes indirect, but still it is a large effect how the truth of one chain can lead to the growth in a moral, small business.

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I'm sorry to burst a bubble of positivity; I really am; but Wal-Mart has all of those things..Really..
I'm not being a jerk here. Just shop in one..You'll see them all..So much for the unique market..


I'm sorry, but I mean the old fashion PEZ, the rookie Babe Bruth card, etc. In other words, the heartwarming things that seldom are found in big box stores. These things seem small but passion is larger than life.

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Pottery Barn is also a chain franchise; in case you missed it; and Big Al is more than likely loading his food up with MSG just to compete with the Texas Road House just down the block..
That's the sad state we've come to..


Sad indeed, that the most stereotypical names have become chains. Well, I meant to put those names as just some "common" small business name. I didn't mean them as the actual stores; you can understand my point, though, correct?

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...And nowhere in that sentence does it imply that the times are changing for the better..


It wasn't actually suppose to because, as times grow dimmer for larger business chains, the light shines brightly for small business.

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Nor do I know what your true passion is..


It could be saving money, where as the morality of a chain would not matter. Therefore, wal-marts may survive, but it will be the small businesses that strive.

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In addition; is Wal-Marts' example the only one you have to use in a sea of monopolies?
If so; it's pretty weak; but so far it's all you've had to offer not only myself; but also our judges..


Well, recalling the resolution, I have been using Wal-Mart as my example of how a big chain can benefit small business.
But, if that is not good enough, here you have it:
Wal-Mart is our problem. Circuit City, Pottery Barn, etc. Do Not destroy a small business. They specialize in ONE THING. Whether it be electronics, entertainment, pottery, they all leave room for small businesses to strive. But then you ask, what about Target? What about K-Mart? Well, they are not like Wal-Mart. Small businesses can match or beat their prices in their specializing areas such as electronics, entertainment, collecting, etc. So if you think about it, a Circuit City may "monopolize" the electronic industry in a particular area, but who will drive 20 miles to save 20 cents on batteries, as they would for saving 100 dollars at Wal-Mart? So Wal-Mart really should be the only big business we shuld be discussing..


#18    AztecInca

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 06:17 AM

Falco Rex the 7 day time-limit for you to post has expired, if you need more time due to your personal reasons please let me know and an extension will be granted.


#19    Falco Rex

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 06:43 AM

No thanks; I'm here; but if you'd like to grant me a post-mortem extension for that one I'd much appreciate it..

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I'm sorry, but I mean the old fashion PEZ, the rookie Babe Bruth card, etc. In other words, the heartwarming things that seldom are found in big box stores. These things seem small but passion is larger than life.


Unfortunately; as I've already mentioned; such items can not support more than one or two small businesses in any given area, and although it may help an individual or two it does nothing to bolster our general economy as a whole..If we lose ourselves in discussion of a microcosm we'll nevver make progress in the larger part of life..

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It wasn't actually suppose to because, as times grow dimmer for larger business chains, the light shines brightly for small business.


Well, a couple; anyway..However; nowhere in your argument have you made a point that convinced me that small businesses can be viable, dynamic, and become a growth industry again..
Frankly, that will never happen again without a radical swing in our nations business practices and new laws that are actually enforced..

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Well, recalling the resolution, I have been using Wal-Mart as my example of how a big chain can benefit small business.
But, if that is not good enough, here you have it:
Wal-Mart is our problem. Circuit City, Pottery Barn, etc. Do Not destroy a small business. They specialize in ONE THING. Whether it be electronics, entertainment, pottery, they all leave room for small businesses to strive. But then you ask, what about Target? What about K-Mart? Well, they are not like Wal-Mart. Small businesses can match or beat their prices in their specializing areas such as electronics, entertainment, collecting, etc. So if you think about it, a Circuit City may "monopolize" the electronic industry in a particular area, but who will drive 20 miles to save 20 cents on batteries, as they would for saving 100 dollars at Wal-Mart? So Wal-Mart really should be the only big business we shuld be discussing..


Tell the truth now..That chain that specializes in one thing only can undercut any price of a small businesses item..Therefore they take a small bite here and there..
Not much maybe. But consider that there are specialty franchises for most everything now..Therefore the variety of items offered by the specialty chains can add up to zero business for our fledgling businesses..
Some might consider specialty franchises themselves to be small business; but I know the expense that merely owning the name causes the store owners, and can tell you that they have to move huge volumns of product just to stay open..
And the corporate headquarters grind them under thier grist-mill if they can't..
As to the rest..
Big oil has destroyed the independant gas station owner..
Mass-retailers have edged out the individual convenience store manager..
Energy barons decide how much you will pay for the essentials of modern life, unchecked by anyone..
The list goes on..
So in that respect; no; I don't believe that Wal-Mart is all that is worth discussing..
What say you; my friend?





#20    RamboIII

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 01:57 AM

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Unfortunately; as I've already mentioned; such items can not support more than one or two small businesses in any given area, and although it may help an individual or two it does nothing to bolster our general economy as a whole..If we lose ourselves in discussion of a microcosm we'll nevver make progress in the larger part of life..


Well, as I come from the larger city of Houston, I have noticed that many small businesses have thrived despite the many, many larger retailers in the area. And wouldn't the "general community" be most affected by the larger communities? So, I don't really know how it is over in your small town, but in Houston-with the large Ship Channell and all- small businesses are hardly affected negatively by large business.

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Well, a couple; anyway..However; nowhere in your argument have you made a point that convinced me that small businesses can be viable, dynamic, and become a growth industry again..


Who ever said success depends on the becoming of a growth industry? The small businesses that do, in fact, go out of businesses (such as those in your area)are benefitted from big retailers by the gift of learning... Also, they get to do something they love and that is worth something.
But...

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Frankly, that will never happen again without a radical swing in our nations business practices and new laws that are actually enforced..


Without a radical swing...Who says there won't be? And that's not the only thing that will benefit small business. Also, as I have stated, recall that big retailers' decreasing popularity is gradually benefitting small businesses more and more.

Remember, success does not only depend on economy. Look at me, for example. I wanted to become a musician until I got drafted into Vietnam. After the war- a failing war that I lost several friends in- I found my true passion. A mate of mine taught me about quantum mechanics and from then on I studied physics in college and became much more intellectual along the way.
The same goes for...say a gas station. The owner may get put out of business (which, infact, many local small gas stations in my area are striving better than ever) but decides that he wants to start a diner because one of his workers' wife made the best apple pie and shake. You learn your true passion from failure.

In some cases, small businesses may fail but that goes for everything. And this will go for anything, fail or succeed. But think in general, and it is clear that large businesses benefit small business more than they harm them.


#21    AztecInca

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 03:52 AM

As this debate is just about at its conclusion and Falco Rex has become MIA I will just hand this debate straight over to the judges so we can get some new debates started. thumbsup.gif


#22    __Kratos__

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Posted 24 June 2006 - 12:24 PM

Debater 1: RamboIII

Relevancy: 9
Countering: 9
Style: 7
Persuasiveness: 6
Total: 31

Debater 2: Falco Rex

Relevancy: 9
Countering: 7
Style: 8
Persuasiveness: 9
Total: 33

Great debating from both sides. Could have used some outside sources but all together it seems like you both knew what you were talking about. Hopefully we'll get to see the both of you back here in the near future. thumbsup.gif

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#23    Mr. Fahrenheit

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 02:59 AM

Debater 1: RamboIII

Relevancy: 8
Countering: 8
Style: 8
Persuasiveness: 6
Total: 30

Debater 2: Falco Rex

Relevancy: 9
Countering: 8
Style: 8
Persuasiveness: 9
Total:34

Very good debate!
Though, I thought the the Wal-mart example used by RamboIII  was overused and didn't cover all the points FalcoRex was making.  Some of the logic used by RamboIII was unrealistic. Overall, however, both sides did very well.  thumbsup.gif

I really enjoyed this debate. Hopefully, FalcoRex's absence is not permanent original.gif

Edited by Mr. Fahrenheit, 25 June 2006 - 03:02 AM.


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#24    Kryso

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 06:25 PM

Debater 1: RamboIII

Relevancy: 9
Countering: 8
Style: 7
Persuasiveness: 7
Total: 31

Debater 2: Falco Rex

Relevancy: 9
Countering: 8
Style: 8
Persuasiveness: 9
Total: 34

Great debate.

As stated, a few links and other outside sources would have gone down a treat. But, all said and done a good debate. yes.gif


#25    AztecInca

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 02:10 AM

RamboIII finishes this debate with a final score of 30.6.

Falco


#26    AztecInca

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 02:10 AM

RamboIII finishes this debate with a final score of 30.6.

Falco Rex


#27    AztecInca

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 02:13 AM

RamboIII finishes this debate with a final score of 30.6.

Falco Rex wins this debate with a final score 33.6.

Well done to both our debators and a big thanks to our awesome debate judges. thumbsup.gif





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