224 replies to this topic

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

Iraq had never really realistically been in any position to be a threat to anyone since '91, with the No Fly Zones and all the rest of it. If there had been any truth to the WMD allegation, a case might almost be argued that he may have felt that he might have needed such things since he'd been so emasculated in other ways, and with powerful countries on his borders who were at least indifferent if not downright hostile to him.
So what other justifications can people come out with?

[Liquid Gardens]

lightly, on 18 September 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

... lol  you make it sound like one person named Al Qaida ..  did all of those things.

Where exactly would you have launched a war against "Al Qaida" ?  

We supposedly overtook  the entire country of  Afghanistan to find bin Laden....   with no proof whatsoever that he was actually there !!!

Then we overtook Iraq...  for  uh....   for what reason exactly again?  

Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with any of the events you just listed.


   as  dubya so eloquently stated, "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

Just curious, lightly, and forgive if you've already clarified this; what would you have done as president on 9/12/2001?

[Babe Ruth]

What would you have done LG?

[skyeagle409]

747400, on 19 September 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

Iraq had never really realistically been in any position to be a threat to anyone since '91, with the No Fly Zones and all the rest of it. If there had been any truth to the WMD allegation, a case might almost be argued that he may have felt that he might have needed such things since he'd been so emasculated in other ways, and with powerful countries on his borders who were at least indifferent if not downright hostile to him.
So what other justifications can people come out with?

Saddam's mindset would not  change with his defeats and it would have been very dangerous to face away from a wounded animal. Do you remember that old B-707 at the terrorist camp in Iraq?

[skyeagle409]

lightly, on 19 September 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

Everyone knows bin Laden was in Afghanistan , at one time.   Where was the proof that he was there after 9-11?

We had radio tranmissions of bin Laden, which placed him in Afghanistan.

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Most now agree that he was in Pakistan ever since 9-11.

That was after he was driven out of Afghanistan, but his group remained in the country

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Afghanistan’s Taliban Wish Al Qaeda Would Go Away

Many in the Taliban are sick of their longtime allies. But how do you dump a terrorist group?


"Most Taliban commanders and fighters inside Afghanistan would be only too glad to see the last of bin Laden’s men. Drone attacks and relentless pursuit by U.S. forces have reduced the foreign jihadis’ presence to small roving bands of seven to 10 Arabs and Pakistanis, mostly from the tribal areas, as well as a few from the Punjab. But those remnants continue to pose nothing but trouble for their Afghan hosts, behaving almost as if they want to antagonize everyone in sight."

http://www.thedailyb...ld-go-away.html

.

[skyeagle409]

lightly, on 19 September 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

oh.. and the  Harboring terrorists line of thinking.   Afghanistan was "harboring terrorists"   because, the same group of people that had been trained and supplied by the 'U.S.' ,...

That doesn't mean that the CIA supported al-Qaeda in the latter years.

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who were freedom fighters when they shot at invading Russians,   were  suddenly "terrorists"  when they shot at invading U.S. and coalition forces.

On the contrary, how many from that same group are now fighting the Taliban and al-Qaeda?

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  The Iraqi army was a minimal foe for U.S. forces to deal with,...

But, not to the Gulf states, and where does much of the world's oil come from?


On another note.


Who’s Sabotaging Iran’s Nukes?

http://news.yahoo.co...--politics.html

[lightly]

Liquid Gardens, on 19 September 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

Just curious, lightly, and forgive if you've already clarified this; what would you have done as president on 9/12/2001?

     I don't know Liquid Gardens.   INVESTIGATION comes to mind .    Another thing that bugs me is... how was it possible to positively identify 19  Involved  'skyjackers' on  4 different flights  within 24 hours and get it 100%  right?   Pictures of 19 faces were on the morning after news.   I don't know...  it just doesn't seem plausible to me.

[lightly]

<p>

skyeagle409, on 19 September 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

That doesn't mean that the CIA supported al-Qaeda in the latter years.

°°°°°°°°°°°°°  i didn's say they did.



On the contrary, how many from that same group are now fighting the Taliban and al-Qaeda?

°°°°°°°°°°°°°°   i have no idea,  but i wouldn't be the least surprised if mercenary elements are fighting for whoever pays the most.

But, not to the Gulf states, and where does much of the world's oil come from?

  °°°°°°°°°°°°    funny how some words can say so much.. in this instance  , OIL.


On another note.


    Who’s Sabotaging Iran’s Nukes?

http://news.yahoo.co...--politics.html

Edited by lightly, 19 September 2012 - 09:11 PM.

[skyeagle409]

lightly, on 19 September 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

<p>

Oil makes the world go around, and to have a madman such as Saddam Hussein in control of all of the oil in the Persian Gulf would have been unacceptable.

[lightly]

skyeagle409, on 20 September 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

Oil makes the world go around, and to have a madman such as Saddam Hussein in control of all of the oil in the Persian Gulf would have been unacceptable.

    I don't see how that might have happened.  He went for the kuwait bait and got Iraq confiscated and himself hung.  But, anyway,  i respect your right to your opinion and your knowledge of the 'facts'  as they have been presented.           I'm skeptical of the whole convoluted mess.   i'll just leave it at that

[Q24]

Liquid Gardens, on 19 September 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

Just curious, lightly, and forgive if you've already clarified this; what would you have done as president on 9/12/2001?

I wrote the below post over 2 years ago.  There might be a few additional bullets now but the gist would be the same .  It contains common sense steps that could have been taken post 9/11 to make America safer, bring those responsible for the attack to justice and reduce terrorism.  I believe the suggestions made, compared to what actually happened, show the difference between the expected reaction of a President interested in the truth and concerned by terrorism and, well... President Bush using a staged pretext.

http://www.unexplain...0

The end point is that none of the common sense steps were taken, whilst the war was nonsensical and counterproductive to preventing terrorism.

[skyeagle409]

lightly, on 20 September 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:

I don't see how that might have happened.  He went for the kuwait bait and got Iraq confiscated and himself hung.

Kuwait wasn't the bait you think it was. Saddam had plans to keep right on through Kuwait, into Saudi Arabia and beyond and the only thing that stopped him was when Saudi Arabia finally approved the stationing of our troops on its soil after the Saudis were shown satellite photos of Iraqi troops just across its border. The following time line pretty much spells Saddam's intentions.

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May 28-30: Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein says that oil overproduction by Kuwait and United Arab Emirates was an "economic warfare" against Iraq.

That set the stage for invasions of the Gulf states. Iraq and Iran were both considered threats to the Persian Gulf region. We were aware Iraqi preparations for a new war in the Gulf, but as mentioned before, we had hoped our naval exercises would get Saddam to back off, but with his mindset, the only thing Saddam understood was that an opposing force much stronger than his army was not in Iraq's best interest and getting our aircraft on the ground in Saudi Arabia in the nick of time is what prevented Saddam from blasting across the border into Saudi Arabia and beyond at full steam ahead.

When dealing with dictators and terrorist, you have to make it known to them that you mean business. To understand Saddam's mindset, look how he gassed the Kurds in Halabja.

http://en.wikipedia....ison_gas_attack

[skyeagle409]

Q24, on 20 September 2012 - 02:47 AM, said:

The end point is that none of the common sense steps were taken, whilst the war was nonsensical and counterproductive to preventing terrorism.

While the world sat back and watched, Serbs slaugthered and butchered thousands upon thousands of innocent people.  Only after miltary interventon did the widescale butchery by the Serbs cease. This is what happens when terrorist determine you have no teeth to bite back.

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The Folly Of The United Nations (U.N.) Peacekeeping

Bosnian Serbs swept into Muslim and Croat villages and engaged in Europe's worst atrocities since the Nazi Holocaust. Serbian thugs raped at least 20,000 women and girls. In barbed-wire camps, men, women and children were tortured and starved to death. Girls as young as six were raped while parents were forced to watch. In one case, three Muslim girls were chained to a fence, raped by Serb soldiers for three days, then drenched with petrol and set on fire.

While this was happening, the UNPROFOR troops stood by and did nothing to help. Designated military "observers" counted artillery shells — and the dead.

http://www.ourcivili...om/moral/un.htm

Now, let's turn to the next page when NATO took a bite out of the Serb terrorist.

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NATO's Success in Kosovo

NATO's Kosovo operation was a major challenge in the history of the Atlantic alliance. For the first time, a defensive alliance launched a military campaign to avoid a humanitarian tragedy outside its own borders. For the first time, an alliance of sovereign nations fought not to conquer or preserve territory but to protect the values on which the alliance was founded. And despite many challenges, NATO prevailed.

http://www.foreignaf...ccess-in-kosovo

Edited by skyeagle409, 20 September 2012 - 05:22 AM.

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

skyeagle409, on 20 September 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

Oil makes the world go around, and to have a madman such as Saddam Hussein in control of all of the oil in the Persian Gulf would have been unacceptable.

Instead, it's so much preferable to have those bastions of free speech and democracy, Saudi Arabia, as the dominant oil producing power, isn't it.
What's that? They may be a state of medieval barbarity, but they aren't a threat to anyone else, so they don't have to be Taken Out? Well, of course, yes.

According to the U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, "Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaida, the Taliban, LeT and other terrorist groups... Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide."^[148]

[skyeagle409]

747400, on 20 September 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

Instead, it's so much preferable to have those bastions of free speech and democracy, Saudi Arabia, as the dominant oil producing power, isn't it.

Much better than under the control of Saddam Hussein, a madman who planned to use his control of Persian Gulf oil to exert his power around the world.

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According to the U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, "Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaida, the Taliban, LeT and other terrorist groups... Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide."^[148]

Let's take another look.

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Saudis emerge as key US ally against terrorists

WASHINGTON (AP) — A decade after hijackers mostly from Saudi Arabia attacked the United States with passenger jets, the Saudis have emerged as the principal ally of the U.S. against al-Qaida's spinoff group in Yemen and at least twice have disrupted plots to explode sophisticated bombs aboard airlines.

Details emerging about the latest unraveled plot revealed that a Saudi double agent fooled the terror group, known as al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, passing himself off as an eager would-be suicide bomber. Instead, he secretly turned over the group's most up-to-date underwear bomb to Saudi Arabia, which gave it to the CIA. Before he was whisked to safety, the spy provided intelligencethat helped the CIA kill al-Qaida's senior operations leader, Fahd al-Quso, who died in a drone strike last weekend.
http://news.yahoo.co...-222306969.html