Refuse vaccines? Find another doctor

[Corp]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203315804577209230884246636.html

Good to see some doctors taking a stand against the anti-vaccine foolishness.

[rashore]

Hmmm, now that's interesting.

[King Fluffs]

Interesting indeed.

[__Kratos__]

No one wants to deal with idiots.

I saw a report a few days ago about how parents still aren't giving their children the chicken pox vaccine but rather having pox parties with sick kids to make their own children sick and make them go through it for weeks rather then a simple shot in the arm.

I had the chicken pox as a kid and it was a terrible experience even though I got out of school for it. Between the itching and my mother yelling at me for scratching 24/7... Maddening. Anybody who would make a child suffer needlessly needs a good slap upside the head.

Edited February 18, 2012 by __Kratos__

[preacherman76]

"Another concern centered on the former use of mercury as a vaccine preservative."

And people wonder why folks just cant find a way to trust big pharm. Former use my ass. Then again we are talking about people who sat in a room 15 years ago and talked about how they could push mind altering drugs on children. Now a very large % of our children are on zombie enducing drugs for "chemical imbalences" in thier brains, without even so much as a blood test. Then those drugs CAUSE chemical imbalances in these kids brains. Some to the point where they kill themselfs, or worse take a bunch of others with semi auto guns, and home made pipe bombs.

Anyone here seen commercials they spend millions on for new drugs they put on the market? 'Side effects may include, but are not limited to, heart attacks, seizures, brain damage, rash, cancer, and death. See your doctor to see if this drug is right for you.' LOL No thanks.

[preacherman76]

No one wants to deal with idiots.

I saw a report a few days ago about how parents still aren't giving their children the chicken pox vaccine but rather having pox parties with sick kids to make their own children sick and make them go through it for weeks rather then a simple shot in the arm.

I had the chicken pox as a kid and it was a terrible experience even though I got out of school for it. Between the itching and my mother yelling at me for scratching 24/7... Maddening. Anybody who would make a child suffer needlessly needs a good slap upside the head.

Last I heard, they dont know the long term effectiveness of the chicken pox vaccine. It may not remain effective into adulthood. Obviously a adult getting chicken pox is far more dangerous then a child getting it. Better to just get it the old fashion way, then to end up with severly painful shingles. Besides, getting chicken pox isnt that bad.

[FurthurBB]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203315804577209230884246636.html

Good to see some doctors taking a stand against the anti-vaccine foolishness.

I don't know. This might be crossing a dangerous line. People should always know that they have the right to decide what kind of medical care they are willing to agree to for themselves and their children. Doctors do not know everything and seem to forget a lot of what they learned about biology before they went to medical school. Doctors hate me and we rarely see eye to eye. Because of this I have a hard time finding doctors that want to treat me. I have always vaccinated my children, and they have all scheduled vaccination, though I would not let them give my kids any kind of medicine they wanted. Most the time they could not even tell me how the medication worked and I would have to correct them. I fought long and hard for pediatric rules about antibiotics and won. Now I am trying to do the same for adults, especially with urgent care and ERs. So, needless to say that is not popular among doctors. I do believe that people should vaccinate their children and that vaccines are one of the true miracles of modern medicine. Also, unfortunately, I have seen first hand how the people at the heart of the anti-vax campaign are unethical leaches who prey on families who have had unimaginable tragedy in their lives. I just do not think that this is the way to go about changing their minds.

[FurthurBB]

No one wants to deal with idiots.

I saw a report a few days ago about how parents still aren't giving their children the chicken pox vaccine but rather having pox parties with sick kids to make their own children sick and make them go through it for weeks rather then a simple shot in the arm.

I had the chicken pox as a kid and it was a terrible experience even though I got out of school for it. Between the itching and my mother yelling at me for scratching 24/7... Maddening. Anybody who would make a child suffer needlessly needs a good slap upside the head.

Sending chicken pox laden lollipops through the mail should be a federal offense.

[FurthurBB]

Last I heard, they dont know the long term effectiveness of the chicken pox vaccine. It may not remain effective into adulthood. Obviously a adult getting chicken pox is far more dangerous then a child getting it. Better to just get it the old fashion way, then to end up with severly painful shingles. Besides, getting chicken pox isnt that bad.

Well, in Japan, they do know the effects for 30 years and 90% of those vaccinated still had immunity, also 90% of people who got it naturally still have immunity after 30 years. Though it drops exponentially for natural after 50 years even though people think having it gives you life long immunity. The problem with chicken pox is that being repeatedly exposed to it boosts your immunity and lessens your likelihood of getting shingles. The same seems to be true for the vaccine. So, if most of the population was vaccinated, long term immunity would lessen. Although, since chicken pox has no other host than humans, we could wipe it out with vaccines. It would take a massive effort, but could be done.

[rodentraiser]

I don't think the parents who don't want to vaccinate their children today are totally thinking things through. Measles and chickenpox are horrible things to get as an adult, as they can be life threatening diseases. You can get chickenpox inside your stomach, in your esophagus, inside your eyelids - virtually everywhere. And while the vaccine doesn't entirely prevent it, your chances of getting shingles are greatly reduced after being vaccinated as opposed to getting shingles after having chicken pox. And having shingles is the pits. You can have constant pain for the rest of your life, permanent nerve damage, or even go blind from shingles. Four years after having shingles I still have nerve damage and my cheek itches so badly I sometimes scratch my skin raw. Likewise, many times unvaccinated children will not show immediate symptoms of mumps, measles, or chickenpox and while incubating the disease, they may give it to an unvaccinated adult or a pregnant woman. I always wonder if the parent who refuses to vaccinate their child because of the supposed health risks ever stops to think about how they would feel if their sick child killed another person or forced a pregnant woman to miscarry or have to consider abortion because those people were exposed to a disease that is so easily preventable today with vaccinations. Personally, I think it's the epitome of selfishness for a parent to not vaccinate their kids.

[+and-then]

I got Chicken Pox at 27 and nearly died from it. In my youth there were no vaccines. I'd hesitate to force a vaccine on a child but I have no problem with the docs choosing not to be responsible for the outcomes as a result of refusing the vaccine.

[FurthurBB]

I don't think the parents who don't want to vaccinate their children today are totally thinking things through. Measles and chickenpox are horrible things to get as an adult, as they can be life threatening diseases. You can get chickenpox inside your stomach, in your esophagus, inside your eyelids - virtually everywhere. And while the vaccine doesn't entirely prevent it, your chances of getting shingles are greatly reduced after being vaccinated as opposed to getting shingles after having chicken pox. And having shingles is the pits. You can have constant pain for the rest of your life, permanent nerve damage, or even go blind from shingles. Four years after having shingles I still have nerve damage and my cheek itches so badly I sometimes scratch my skin raw. Likewise, many times unvaccinated children will not show immediate symptoms of mumps, measles, or chickenpox and while incubating the disease, they may give it to an unvaccinated adult or a pregnant woman. I always wonder if the parent who refuses to vaccinate their child because of the supposed health risks ever stops to think about how they would feel if their sick child killed another person or forced a pregnant woman to miscarry or have to consider abortion because those people were exposed to a disease that is so easily preventable today with vaccinations. Personally, I think it's the epitome of selfishness for a parent to not vaccinate their kids.

You do not know how crazy these anti-vax people can be. My niece has asperger's and her mother was convinced for a good while that it was from vaccines. She actually caught me in some kind of freak show intervention with all these crazy people because I wouldn't agree with her. Of course I wouldn't agree with her, I told her more than year before the supposed offending vaccination that she should have her daughter tested for autism, though she somehow forgot all about that. Then she wouldn't have anything to do with me, even though we had been friends since we were 16, and she disowned her family because they "sided" with me. It is cultist, these people had her so brainwashed it was unbelievable. well, she ended up having another child, a boy, who she never vaccinated, and what do you know. He has autism too, and not asperger's, horrible degenerative autism. Well, needless to say she no longer believes the anti-vax myth and has had to get a lot of therapy to get over what they did to her and the horrible things she did to her daughter at their behest.

[Rafterman]

"Another concern centered on the former use of mercury as a vaccine preservative."

And people wonder why folks just cant find a way to trust big pharm. Former use my ass. Then again we are talking about people who sat in a room 15 years ago and talked about how they could push mind altering drugs on children. Now a very large % of our children are on zombie enducing drugs for "chemical imbalences" in thier brains, without even so much as a blood test. Then those drugs CAUSE chemical imbalances in these kids brains. Some to the point where they kill themselfs, or worse take a bunch of others with semi auto guns, and home made pipe bombs.

Anyone here seen commercials they spend millions on for new drugs they put on the market? 'Side effects may include, but are not limited to, heart attacks, seizures, brain damage, rash, cancer, and death. See your doctor to see if this drug is right for you.' LOL No thanks.

Ever read the side effects for aspirin or Tylenol? If you understood how drug testing was carried out, you'd know that if 1 person in 5,000 developed cancer while participating in the trial, then cancer has to be listed as a possible side effect.

As far as mercury is concerned, there has never been a link found between it and anything.

As to the OP, it's about time. We need to be marginalizing these anti-vaccer types until they begin to realize that they are putting us all at risk with their stupidity - especially our children. Personally, I no longer let my children socialize with the anti-vacs and I make sure that they know why.

[Rafterman]

Last I heard, they dont know the long term effectiveness of the chicken pox vaccine. It may not remain effective into adulthood. Obviously a adult getting chicken pox is far more dangerous then a child getting it. Better to just get it the old fashion way, then to end up with severly painful shingles. Besides, getting chicken pox isnt that bad.

Unless you were one of the ones that died form it.

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/25/deaths-from-chickenpox-down/

Deaths from chickenpox (the varicella virus) have dropped 97 percent in adolescents and children since the use of the vaccine began in 1995, new analysis shows.

"I think there's certainly the potential for very little disease in the future and very few deaths if we are to fully implement and maintain that program," said Jane Seward, deputy director, Division of Viral Diseases, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The study appears in journal Pediatrics. Researchers from the CDC looked at data from 1990 to 2007.

"Every kid did get chickenpox and, in the pre-vaccine era, there were 3-4 million cases a year," Seward said. "What people may not have realized, every year, about 105 people died of chickenpox. About half of those were children and about 11,000-12,000 were hospitalized with severe complications. We started preventing the disease to really prevent those very serious complications."

[+susieice]

Also, if you had chickenpox when you were young, the virus stays dormant in the body and can recur as shingles when you are older. If you have not had chickenpox, you can't get shingles and if you go around someone who has shingles you will get chickenpox if they are contagious. Doesn't happen to everyone but is better to avoid the chance if possible.

[Fluffybunny]

Besides, getting chicken pox isnt that bad.

Except for the people that it is bad. Do they count?

[preacherman76]

Except for the people that it is bad. Do they count?

No.

Some folks get bad side effects from taking the vaccine. All im saying is no one should be "slapped upside the head"-(Kratos) for having the freedom to choose.

Edited February 19, 2012 by preacherman76

[preacherman76]

Ever read the side effects for aspirin or Tylenol? If you understood how drug testing was carried out, you'd know that if 1 person in 5,000 developed cancer while participating in the trial, then cancer has to be listed as a possible side effect.

One in 5000 is alot of people getting cancer. All im saying is its obvious many of the drugs they advertise, the risk often times out weighs the benefits. Many of those drugs have a long list of possible horrible side effects. And its those same people who litteraly push mind altering drugs, doing permanent damage, to millions of children. And they do it through lies of chemical imbalances that they never even test for. Its a scam that has and will continue to scar this country (and many other countries) in ways we dont fully realise yet.

As far as mercury is concerned, there has never been a link found between it and anything.

Never heard of mercury poisoning? Mercury is a powerful neuro toxin. It should be common sence to never inject anyone, let alone babies, with mercury. Especialy so that multi billion dollar companies can save a buck. The way I see it, why on earth would I trust people who push mind altering drugs, ruining the lifes of millions of children, on subjects such as the safty of injecting mercury directly into the veins babies. They obviously have no conscience regarding harming the brains of children. They out right lie in order to make money doing just that.

As to the OP, it's about time. We need to be marginalizing these anti-vaccer types until they begin to realize that they are putting us all at risk with their stupidity - especially our children. Personally, I no longer let my children socialize with the anti-vacs and I make sure that they know why.

Why stop there? Might as well just throw us in the gas chambers. If people wont buy into what big pharm is telling us is good for us, then the whole planet is in danger

[aquatus1]

Gas chambers. Wow.

That has to be the longest Godwin-esque reach I have ever seen.

[rashore]

Thought this might be an interesting article for the conversation..

Courier Press

It's about some measles cases popping up in Indiana, and it looks like at least a person or two with it attended the superbowl festivities a couple weeks ago.

[Mekorig]

Looks like some people in the USA are dead set to return to the living conditions of 1800, or before.

[__Kratos__]

All im saying is no one should be "slapped upside the head"-(Kratos) for having the freedom to choose.

You shouldn't have the freedom to endanger others by not being vaccinated therefore degrading herd immunity to protect us all including the most vulnerable among us.

Because of people refusing to be vaccinated, old and rare sicknesses are popping up in the hardest hit areas because of it.

Suck it up and get a shot in the arm... You even get a free lollipop if you're good. Or refuse a legitimate medical treatment and kill children and weaken adults instead of getting free candy.

Quite honestly, I'm on the side of free candy.

[Bavarian Raven]

You shouldn't have the freedom to endanger others by not being vaccinated therefore degrading herd immunity to protect us all including the most vulnerable among us.

Because of people refusing to be vaccinated, old and rare sicknesses are popping up in the hardest hit areas because of it.

Suck it up and get a shot in the arm... You even get a free lollipop if you're good. Or refuse a legitimate medical treatment and kill children and weaken adults instead of getting free candy.

Quite honestly, I'm on the side of free candy.

i guess some of us are on the side of freedom. :/

~

that being said, for more serious disease (yes, i know chicken pox can be serious but usually its not) i believe people should be encouraged to get vaccinated... but again, it should not be forced upon the people.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Bavarian Raven

[Stellar]

I don't think the solution is to force people to get vaccinated...

I think the real solution lies in educating people on how vaccines work and, even more importantly, educating the doctors, vaccine developers, and eliminating corruption in the pharmaceutical corporations so that the people once again trust the people recommending they take the vaccines.

[Rafterman]

One in 5000 is alot of people getting cancer. All im saying is its obvious many of the drugs they advertise, the risk often times out weighs the benefits. Many of those drugs have a long list of possible horrible side effects. And its those same people who litteraly push mind altering drugs, doing permanent damage, to millions of children. And they do it through lies of chemical imbalances that they never even test for. Its a scam that has and will continue to scar this country (and many other countries) in ways we dont fully realise yet.

You missed the point entirely - people get cancer all of the time. If said person got cancer while participating in a drug trial, then that has to be listed as a possible side effect. You don't have to prove a causal relationship. Get it?

Never heard of mercury poisoning? Mercury is a powerful neuro toxin. It should be common sence to never inject anyone, let alone babies, with mercury. Especialy so that multi billion dollar companies can save a buck. The way I see it, why on earth would I trust people who push mind altering drugs, ruining the lifes of millions of children, on subjects such as the safty of injecting mercury directly into the veins babies. They obviously have no conscience regarding harming the brains of children. They out right lie in order to make money doing just that.

Can you show any evidence that anyone has ever gotten mercury poisoning from vaccines? Also, you should read up on the differences between ethylmercury (which is in vaccines)and

methylmercury (which is what you're talking about) Here's a starting point for you: http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4180 Here's what is said about it:

Mercury

This is the most common claim, and it's the one you've probably heard the most about, so I won't spend much time on it. Some vaccines (but no scheduled childhood vaccines) are preserved with thimerosal, which contains ethylmercury. Elemental mercury is a dangerous neurotoxin, but when it's bound as an organic ethyl, it's easily filtered out of your body by your kidneys and is quickly discharged. This is one reason thimerosal has always been such a safe and popular preservative, and it's still found in many products. Mercury can also be bound as a methyl, which is different, and is much harder for your body to filter out. But fear not; no vaccines or thimerosal ever contained methylmercury, and this scaremongering has no plausible foundation.

Why stop there? Might as well just throw us in the gas chambers. If people wont buy into what big pharm is telling us is good for us, then the whole planet is in danger

Save us the conspiratorial drama please. Why don't you read up on the resurgence of diseases such as measles, mumps, whooping cough, and even polio. Anti-vaccers do pose a danger to us all because of their stupidity and they should be marginalized. Perhaps when they are no longer allowed to go to school, get jobs, etc. they'll finally wake up. And yes, this really p***es me off.