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The True Meaning of Life


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#241    Mr Walker

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:52 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 15 March 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Well as far as I can make out you make no end of assertions that fly in the face of reality, so we are just going to have to disagree.
No problem. All my assertions are based on what i know from personal experience (which is very wide and long) and on a huge amount of reading. So I am certain of them and their independent reality, but just as I might  suspend belief on any  unusual claims you made, I can understand your doubting mine.

My wife gets mad at me when i dont take her word for even little things she sees as we go through a day together. But as i say to her Unless i see or experience it for myslef I cant be sure it is real. You might be mistaken.

So this morning  I look out the window and say, "Hey its raining." She says, "No it's not". I say,  thinking i am being very smart, "Well then, what's that patter of water on the wall, and all those wet drops on the back verandah, and why is the concrete path all wet?" She shuts up.

Only when I go outside do I find a beautiful sunny day,  and a sprinkler going flat out, just out of my line of sight from the window, showering water on the wall, verandah and path. She was right again, and I was stupid  to argue with her. Sigh!

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#242    Mr Walker

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:13 PM

View PostSherapy, on 15 March 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

MW, I am speaking only of your claim that angels are real objectively and therefore have a physical reality.

This is not possible based on how we assess for certainty in science.

Now adays with what we know about the brain it is taught in High School that perception is not a reliable purveyor of truth.


I think it is very possible to have subjective experiences that include angels and not be delusional. You believe in angels, you had an experience that you have interpreted as an angel.


It's not a big deal MW, and  you are not delusional because you believe in angels, not to me.. People believe all kinds of things, they believe in g-ds, they believe in spirit guides, fairies, Santa Claus, the Easter bunny, karma, nirvana, heaven, spirit  prison.etc etc. I say if you want to believe in angels go ahead, good for you.
Bold one
If something is real then science can prove its reality. Angels are real and solid, so science can prove their reality. One day it will. That won't change their nature as angels, or the fact that they are what humans commonly call angels. Scientific proof will enhance their reality and credibility, not diminish it (Some people argue that gods and angels can ONLY be such, if they are so insubstantial as to be incapable of physical verification, and that anything real can't be an angel or a god. That is a nonsense.)
Bold 2
Then unfortunately your high school teachers are purveyors of untruths. :innocent:  That is a philosophical pov, not a scientific truth. As evolved beings, we are almost perfectly able to perceive and respond to our external environments, just like any living organism. It is how we survive. Our senses are incredibly accurate and highly refined, and tuned to our external environment

. Yes, we make subjective judgements about what we objectively sense, but that is another area of debate altogether.

IT is untrue in the practical/physical sense, that humans can not objectively sense their environment using their organs of sense.
  A human being can also be trained and taught to perceive and think objectively and logically, using personal, data based evidences, and scientific reasoning to analyse what their senses record. I was taught how to do this, from early childhood right through to university, by very effective teachers. So were most students of my generation.

Thank you for giving me your permission to believe in angels. ( seriously, it is amusing not offensive) The humorous thing, is tha t I dont believe in them at all. My wife does, absolutely and completely, in a faith based choice to believe. That is an ENTIRELY different thought process to knowing they exist.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#243    Frank Merton

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:19 PM

I dare say I am quite sure I don't "know" anything, and I try to root out what I "believe" and stop.  About all I think an intellectually honest person should allow themselves is opinions.


#244    Mr Walker

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:26 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 16 March 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

I suppose angels could be physical entitities if they are made of some sort of strange stuff will properties unknown to science.  Traditionally we speak of "physical" things and "spiritual" things, and think of the two as qualitatively different.

From observation they are either quantum type beings, or more probably operating a quantum type technology a few centuries in advance of our own current levels. They can transmit them selves and appear as either  beings of light or beings of solid matter They can then dematerialse instantly and disappear. They can speak audibly using normal sound, or they can project thoughts and images into your head They can heal and operate on your body from outside using heat and othe rforms of transmitted energy. They canimpart knowledge directly and one to one, or allow you acces to it via a sort of mind meld withthe cosmic consciousness.

Again, thought storage and transmission is already technically feasible by humans, using technology based  implants, and will be common place in  much less than a century. A human being is both a spiritual and a physical being. So are angels and, indeed, gods. Sapient self awareness required to be an angel a god or a human being, contains within its evolutionary nature the elements of spiritual intelligence. Any entity at human level or above sapience and self awareness, either organic or artificial/electronic based, will have spiritual awareness and intelligence as part of its intellectual capabiities.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#245    Mr Walker

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:45 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 18 March 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

I dare say I am quite sure I don't "know" anything, and I try to root out what I "believe" and stop.  About all I think an intellectually honest person should allow themselves is opinions.

If that is how you want to go through life, and think of your way of operating, (and it works for you) then OK.  I know hundreds of thousands of  things, including stuff i learned as a child like how to hang ten on a longboard  ski barefoot or tie a windsor knot in a tie,, and learn hundreds more every day. I believe nothing which I do not consciously chose to invest belief in, disbelieve almost nothing, and work to move more and more from the unknown to the known. I deliberately and consciously suspend almost all belief and disbelief in everything.

I think this comes from learning to read at the age of two and my parents stressing the prime importance of knowledge in all aspects of life, from how to properly make and serve a cup of tea, to how to best treat snakebite or trap a rabbit, or strip down and rebuild an engine or design and build a model aeroplane motor car  etc . I can construct a number of explosive devices and timing mecahanism which i learned as a teenager just from reading novels  long before the internet. I love learning new things even though after a while they bore me. Even the skill of learning, its different forms, and  the comparative effectiveness of each based on human neurology,  can be learned.

In general I have a continuum from the known to the unknown, and try to "slide" more things further along it, from unknown to absolutely known.  It is just the way I am and makes me an asset at quiz nights. In part it enables me to be all i can be, so i can more effectively help others, but it is really my equivalent of being driven to  be the best footballer I could be. To me, the mind is the most important thing about being human, and while it will all be lost when i die, that doesnt seem to worry me, or stop me learning .

Actually i dont believe you dont know anything. Like me, you probably know a host of things

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#246    Frank Merton

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:01 PM

I "know" that the Earth averages something like 97 million miles from the sun.  Now, what do I really "know?"  I know that it takes me a day and a half to travel from Ho Chi Minh City to Nhat Trang.  Do I know it?

It is my opinion.  If the bus breaks down, it will take longer.  As far as the distance to the sun, that is not knowledge but the result of calculations based I assume on how long it takes radar waves to bounce off something and then do some trigonometry.  I have no idea what 97 million of anything is.  I might get a better picture from various analogies, I suppose, but all that would then resolve down to opinion.

Some things we think we know better than others, but nothing is certain and even is we really know, do we understand?  

Like I say, I don't know, I only have opinions.


#247    LEGIONS

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:14 PM

There can really be no single Meaning to "LIFE" for we are many .I personally have been on many mountains and have crawled through many valleys.And I have found that for me just to wake up and no have to wonder why I feel the way I do is a great gift ...there is no blame for me to place upon anyone and no points that have to be proven .I am very tickled to be a 53 year old little boy ..and my portion of this lifetime is afforded to me every second I breathe ..perhaps you will consider me a simpleton ,so be it ..I am a happy simpleton

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#248    third_eye

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:21 PM

happy works for me everytime

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#249    LEGIONS

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:29 PM

contentment is not complacency

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#250    Frank Merton

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:36 PM

View PostLEGIONS, on 18 March 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

contentment is not complacency
I guess not, but I wonder how one can be content if they are not complacent and complacent if they are not content.


#251    LEGIONS

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:01 PM

complacency as defined in terms of content in the face of unaware of things ..I am aware of many dangers and other things ,however will not give my happiness to them ..hope this clears your confusion

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#252    Mr Walker

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 10:48 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 18 March 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

I "know" that the Earth averages something like 97 million miles from the sun.  Now, what do I really "know?"  I know that it takes me a day and a half to travel from Ho Chi Minh City to Nhat Trang.  Do I know it?

It is my opinion.  If the bus breaks down, it will take longer.  As far as the distance to the sun, that is not knowledge but the result of calculations based I assume on how long it takes radar waves to bounce off something and then do some trigonometry.  I have no idea what 97 million of anything is.  I might get a better picture from various analogies, I suppose, but all that would then resolve down to opinion.

Some things we think we know better than others, but nothing is certain and even is we really know, do we understand?  

Like I say, I don't know, I only have opinions.
It is true that you can only know something like the distance ot the sun by faith, ie taking other peoples word for it, but everything you learn, and know from experience from walking, to talking to hang gliding, is self evidently  knowledge.

You KNOW you cant  walk through a wall  if you have ever tried to do so, that you have diabetes when you faint from low sugar level, that you are allergic to some foods. You know how to ride a bike or surf or speak three languages, because these are personal experiences. I know how to construct a bomb and timing device, make a bow and arrow from scratch etc. I know how a lever can help me move a heavy weight I know that one can can construct a right angle using a piece of string, because I have done all these things, working from basic knowledge of principles and practice. I know a windmill works because i have rebuilt one and watched it pump water up a fifty metre hill. I know water runs down hill because i have watched it do so.
Understanding comes after knowledge. I didn't learn the principles of gravity or hydraulics until years after i had  observed them in operation. I was probably 16 by the time someone explained bernoullis theory to me, but i had already made powered aeroplanes from balsa wood and  tissue paper and learned how to fly them.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.




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