Reincarnation

[snuffypuffer]

I was just wondering what the folks on the forum thought. Personally, I believe. I think there is an afterlife, but wouldn't heaven get boring after awhile, what with all the peace and contentment? And the really special moments in your life, (you know what I'm talking about, not gonna get all sappy on you), they're not nearly as special if you get to relive them all the time. Same thing with Hell, I figure eventually you'd get used to the constant prodding and burning. Just my opinion, lemme know what you think.

[Libidinous Scourge]

How old would i be if i was in heaven? the same age as when i die? that would make heaven the same as a really big retirement home!

[Aslan]

Here's my problem with reincarnation. Since the world, and even the universe, is capable of supporting a finite amount of life, if reincarnation is true then we have existed since the begining of time - the same souls reincarnating throughout history, and none shall be added and none shall be taken away kind of thing.

So then, who are we? We must be pretty important, we limited and never changing number of living, sentient things. We Elect, who have reincarnated throughout time. What is our purpose ?

[Kismit]

I choose yes .. I believe that reincarnation is inevitable wether you look at it spiritually or physically . It may be just that our physical bodies change and alter for a different purpose like fertiliser or maybe we just come back time and time again spiritually because we want to . A purpose isn't all that necissary .

[TheOracle]

I voted Yes. I believe that in the afterlife we have a choice if we want to be reincarnated or not. I also belive that new spirits are born all the time as I can imagine that not everyone would want to be reincarnated.

[AndyThorley]

I like aslans idea there....that like energy souls aren't created or taken away, just reused and transformed...

Personally though...I dunno, I never really thought of it.

I was taught as a kid that christianity is a simply process of 'youre born you live you die the end' and anyone who believed otherwise was an antichrist who's only destination was hell....

But I wanna break free of that cause I dont think its right...I like th concept of Kharma and earning your next body seems like a nice one, though one thats flawed I think, because a tree would technically be guiltless so if youre bad and get brought back as a tree then youre guiltless when you die so become a saint or something...

I am very comfused about the matter, to be perfectly honest

[Aslan]

A purpose isn't all that necissary

I'm afraid I don't believe that. Everything living thing has a purpose. If you are of a spiritualist bent then you could argue that the purpose is to achieve enlightenment, or perfection, or go to heaven, or whatever; if you are a firm atheist you could equally argue that the purpose is to produce more living things. Either way, this is a purpose - you say as must, Kismit, when you point out that it might be our only destiny to become fertiliser.

But if we agree to this, I can't agree to this...

maybe we just come back time and time again spiritually because we want to

If there is reincarnation, there must be a reason for reincarnation. Something so inherently part of our being must have a purpose. To say being born again is purposeless is to say being born at all is purposeless, which I can't logically understand is the case.

[Nancy]

I vote "yes"....... although as previously referenced, Reincarnation isn't "mandatory."

Those who chose to NOT reincarnate, have their own personal agenda on the "Other Side." Meaning, there is no desire to come back and basically start all over again. For those who chose not to, they grow, learn, teach and interact with those Souls who remain.

To me, the purpose of reincarnation revolves around:

1. The need to be willing to endure the pain (mental, physical and emotional)

that being on this plane automatically generates, to "make up for" past transgressions.

2. To contiue to Grow, Teach, Evolve in ways that did not present themselves, in any given "Past Life."

Basically, to me, Human Souls are pure energy..... intelligent in most cases... PURE energy. In essence, Souls never "die"...... Just change form. Those who have left this life in a traumatic, unexpected manner or those souls who do not accept their demise... become "spirits/ghosts"...... They need to accept what has happned and until then, will roam searching for answers.

"Reincarnation" to me, helps to explain extreme talent, intellect, etc. at a very young age.

Please don't call the Men in the White Coats.......

[Anirbas]

Well I don't really believe in it but at the same time I can't help but wonder if God would give second chances depending on the situation.

[Benjo Koolzooie]

I don't believe in God or have a religion, so don't think he has anything to do with it, that is just my idea though, and other people believe God and religion does have a part in it, I can accept that.I am open minded.Cause people have different beliefs .

But I do agree with Nancy, and that basically is what I think. Especially about the souls that can not accept how they die, become trapped as ghosts, untill they have managed to accept it.

I will one day be able to type my own idea up much better and in better detail when I gain more experience throught reading and when my ideas expand. Untill then, that it basically it for me.

[snuffypuffer]

Aslan, every thing does have a purpose I think. And I agree that every soul in existence has existed since the beginning, no more, no less. But I also think that the general consensus is that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, and it stands to reason that these beings probably also have souls. So as the number of spirits goes up here, it declines elsewhere, kind of an ebb and flow effect. As civilisations on other worlds die, the reappear elsewhere. We don't have to necessarily be reincarnated back on earth. YOu could come back as, say, a carpenter on Alteron 4 or something. Of course, that's just my theory.

[Nancy]

  As civilisations on other worlds die, the reappear elsewhere.  We don't have to necessarily be reincarnated back on earth.  YOu could come back as, say, a carpenter on Alteron 4 or something.  Of course, that's just my theory.

Hmmmmmmmm, interesting theory snuffypuffer, but.........

At the risk of not giving enough credit where credit is due, I feel that reincarnating from/to another form of "life" would be mass confusion and very unsettling for the "Soul."

It is rough enough to transcend from this plane to the next, let alone to reincarnate to another part of the great "out there." I feel the Soul needs to feel totally comfortable and stay in the same "realm" as before, as limiting as this seems. I also believe that one's basic "personality" is embedded in one's soul. Each lifetime brings out the various aspects of said personality.

I also do not believe in transmutation......

[snuffypuffer]

I have an argument for that, Nancy, but as I'm limited to one deep thought a day, I'll have to get back to you.

[Blood Angel]

put it this way if the answer is yes hurrah for us if the answer is no then we be ****ed

[Kismit]

Aslan

But if we agree to this, I can't agree to this...

maybe we just come back time and time again spiritually because we want to 

after reading the last few posts , I agree that a change of tack is in order .

I'm more inclined to call it a physical cycle than re-incarnation now . Possibly closer to my original point any how .

I was thinking about the whole subject of purpose there , and being as attatched as I am to the Idea of a spiritual holiday after our many growth cycles . I thought maybe the ultimate goal is to be able to accept that our bodies are just fertiliser for the next generation of trees , lay down and give back your body to the earth . Move on and make room for another soul to incarnate . and so on and so on you get the picture .

[Aslan]

That sounds more like it. Bodily reincarnation is too much philosophical nonsense for me. However, you raise another interesting point in your post, Kismit. The question still remains whether there are or there aren't an infinite number of 'souls' to carnate. I find it difficult to accept that 'new' souls are 'produced' somehow. The concept of eviternity, that something can have a begining but no end seems flawed, so then I'm forced to accept that every soul has and will go on forever - whether they incarnate or not - and that the number of souls remains constant.

And this, I'm afraid, I also find nonsensical. What were we all doing at the begining of the universe? Before the begining? What will we do when it's finished? What about children who die in infancy? Or thoroughly bad people who live until they're eighty. The whole concept of anything but anihilation at death seems both unfair and unworkable, and the more I think about it; the more I find myself drifting towards total aethism.

But, see, I can't philosophically accept that, either. Bugger.

[Kismit]

I was deeply immersed in the thoughts transpiring in your post Aslan , when suddenly I felt like omellette ......

What were we all doing at the begining of the universe? Before the begining? What will we do when it's finished?

We had a thread a while back that asked the question " What came before the big bang ? " , that addressed some of these questions .

I have come away with one question though , If we do move on and make room for new spirits , what is it that creates these spirits , what kind of birthing process takes place ? Is it a spacial thing where energies from the universe merge and create a spirit ... Gosh is that the time allready , I think I'm just babbling a little too now ....

[Aslan]

Yes, that's my point really. I find the idea of souls being 'born' slightly ludicrous. So I either have to accept that we have always existed and always will exist; or I have to accept that our personalities are just shadows of the brain, and when the brain stops, the personality stops. Neither option am I happy with.

[Althalus]

As the soul is energy (we think) if the soul is not eternal could it be that the soul energy transforms into something else?

I do believe in reincarnation, we reincarnate so we can of we choose to, improve ourselves mentally. But thats just me.

[Aslan]

Actually, Al, the best answer I've got to thus far is this (and I by no means believe this - it's just the one that I find most philosophically satisfying ):

We are all 'fragments' of a universal consciousness that, in it's vast cosmic boredom, created the universe and all the conditions therein that led to the creation of sentient life. Everything that is sentient, people, aliens, even Sir Alex Ferguson, is a fragment of this universal consciousness and when we die, we return to it and we are not complete until the last sentient being dies. All prayers in all religions are directed, effectively, to ourselves; all paranormal beings are expressions of the same thing - this eternally bored sentience; all emotion is a chemical trick, like an impressionist experiment played on ourselves; and all value judgements worthless since there is only us, and we actually have no values one way or another.

[Althalus]

Thats a very good idea that is, it could very well be correct, the universal mind, it could also explain a whole number of psychic episodes, such as mind reading, and the like, if we are all linked in this way, we could actually be tapping into this uni-mind temporarily to get the answers.

[Aslan]

Well exactly. The beauty of it is, is that it can explain absolutley every phenomenon you care to mention, however whacky or outlandish or utterly improbable. It's a catch-all theory and yet it's very simple.

Only problem now is that I don't really believe it. It's too grim: it gives us immortality but denies us personality; it gives us ultimate power but no way to use it; it bestows upon us emotions which are effectively useless; it gives us individuality but then takes it away again (could you bear to lose all your private thoughts and achievements to a universal whole?).

Like I say, it's tidy, but very, very bleak. I'd rather have annihilation as myself than having perpetuity as a titanic blob of universal consciousness.

[dust19]

hmmm

I'm not sure where this fits in to this whole mess, but something in my mind tells me it does. I always theorized, myself, about a 'universal consciousness' and have in a strange way witnessed it for myself in my previous 5 year career in the pizza industry (how productive, no?). Basically, we ran on an automated order system, people would phone in orders to the main call center, then the orders were transmitted via network to the appropriate store. The thing that I noticed is that, through the course of a day, the store would go through strange spurts of people ordering the same oddball stuff in one giant cluster, as if their desire to eat that particular food item was transmitted and picked up by more and more people. Sounds a little crazy, and it probably is. Sure, one could argue that the people probably saw the delivery truck drive by and decided to order for themselves, or also that a certain coupon was in print advertising this particular item, but I've taken all of these into consideration and through my careful monitoring of orders, and order locations compared to the location and the current ad campaign just don't match up. Yeah, I had to find ways to entertain myself at work...

[Althalus]

This is being looked into be Dr Rupert Sheldrake, and his morphogenic feild theory, in which birds in one country have somehow picked up habits iin just a few weeks of those in labs, that have never been let out.

[Halo_Jones]

I voted "yes" to reincarnation, for reasons that I don't feel I have to justify.