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911 inside job - for what?


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#1006    shrooma

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:02 PM

View PostLiquid Gardens, on 19 February 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:



Nor is carpet-bombing the thread with the same question over and over.  We have a word to describe that kind of behavior:  'trolling'.




It is acceptable behavior to ignore questions that you present if you fail to provide any explanation as to what the relevance of the question is.  

And lest I forget since you find it so compelling in its repetition:  "lol".
_
i'm still at a loss as to why you're supplying this simpleton with the attention he/she is so obviously craving.
surely the maxim, 'ignore it, and it will go away' applies here?
after all, he/she is bringing nothing constructive to the debate, so why waste your time, energy, and bandwidth?
if I were a conspiracy theorist, I CERTAINTLY wouldn't want he/she/it on my side.
_
(waits patiently for his/her/it's incredibly juvenile response.....)

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#1007    Coffey

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:09 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 19 February 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Who is going to provide security protection after U.S. troops are removed from Afghanistan next year?


Why would thye need security then... They have alreayd shownt hem the consequences. lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 19 February 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Do you remember Halabja?
Question is, what happened to Iraqi's chemical weapons?  When Iraq saw bombers dismantling its air forces on the ground, what did Iraq do? It flew what aircraft could fly into Iran for protection. What were those trucks transporting into Syria before the second Gulf War began?

That's not WMD's. lol

Blair nd Bush said he had WMD's which could be LAUNCHED at the UK and US. They said they had capable range.

If Saddam had missiles capable of doign that then why didn't he launcht hem?! Why did Bush admitt he was wrong.

Why was Dr David Kelly killed...


View Postskyeagle409, on 19 February 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

If that was the case, why didn't the United States attack Iran and grab its oil?

They need public support first, hence the media BS that has been slowly and gently pushing it over the years, next they will coem out wiht more BS to push the war on Iran.

Edited by Coffey, 19 February 2013 - 06:10 PM.

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#1008    skyeagle409

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:11 PM

View Postshrooma, on 19 February 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

_
I used to work for the company that cold-rolled the steel to make the collet joints they used to seal the different sections of the iraqi 'pipeline/supergun' at the same time as we were making shrapnel grenades for the isreali army, proving that death is indeed an equal opportunities employer.
when we started the contract, we all had to sign waivers to the effect that we didn't mind that the products we were making would be used in warfare.

That's interesting!! Check this out.

Quote

Iraq's Super Gun

Posted Image

Sabah al-Khafaji with scrap from the supergun, at his bus factory in Iskandariya, 30 miles south of Baghdad.


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#1009    shrooma

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:17 PM

View PostLiquid Gardens, on 19 February 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:


And lest I forget since you find it so compelling in its repetition:  "lol".
_
now THAT, is the dewdrop on the cherry on the icing on the cake.
i'm glad I wasn't the only one who found it irritating.

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#1010    shrooma

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:25 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 19 February 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:



That's interesting!! Check this out.
_
ooh! I made the valve collets on those seals!!
(doesn't know whether to swell with pride, or deflate in shame, so reaches the consensus to stay his own happy, drunken little self....!)
thanks for the pic btw, MUCH appreciated!
:-)

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#1011    Babe Ruth

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 08:55 PM

View PostXetan, on 19 February 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

While I agree with you, all we generally know is decided on faith. Whether or not you believe in "the science" is itself based upon faith, faith that you are not being lied to by your scientific sources. And the same for any supposed transcripts. Everything you do not experience first-hand is believed almost entirely on faith.

Not necessarily.  The scientific method establishes a way to analyze things without having to rely upon faith.  Indeed, it insists that faith not be a part of the process or equation.

Facts and scientific analysis exist independent of faith.

Religion and superstition demand faith.


#1012    Nathan DiYorio

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:50 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 19 February 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

Not necessarily.  The scientific method establishes a way to analyze things without having to rely upon faith.  Indeed, it insists that faith not be a part of the process or equation.

Facts and scientific analysis exist independent of faith.

Religion and superstition demand faith.

You're depending on somebody telling you the truth about those facts. That is faith.

Posted Image


#1013    psyche101

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:58 AM

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

I;m not catching on at all,

With regards to my perspective yes you are.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

I do not believe there is a paper trail because OBL was clever or smart or high profile. I believe there was a lack of paper trail because I do not think that OBL was behind the attacks, he might have funded them or even support them but I do not think he planned them.

You do not think funding would leave a paper trail, or that this role somehow absolves him of responsibility as the instigator who made the operation possible?

Regardless of his level of planning, do you feel he was completely ignorant to the entire plot?

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

There is no way that OBL could have planned an operation on this scale without help and that help I believe came from within the intelligence agencies within the US and mahybe other countries.

I also believe he had much help, but that is where we part ways. Any information from within the US was no doubt from their own people, not Intelligence. It is hardly a mastermind plot, it is barbaric, simple but so insane that nobody would expect for another human to delve this low. Just like how the US was caught of guard with Kamikaze pilots. Nobody ever imagined some insane pilot willing to fly his plane into a target. By the same token, nobody expected these fundies to be so bloodthirsty. The celebrations over the slaughter are enough to consider the entire movement a hate faction. I think 911 should be used to declare the Sunni and Shari'ah faiths a threat to society and outlawed.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

I do not want to believe he was given a safe passage at all but there is plenty of evidence for it.

I do not want to be lieve it either, because if it is true, America has the option to go to war the way I see it. In fact, with the way Pakistan behaves, it is possibly just a matter of time.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

I'm at a loss here?? You said that if OBL was captured, that there would be people trying to free him. I do not see how this would be the case when no one has made an attempt on his No2.

Anything from an attempt to plea bargain like they did with Weinstein, or corruption anything to outright jailbreak. As long as he exists, the possibility that he may walk the streets again some day exists. Al Qaeda has offered such bargains before, and 63 Al Qaeda escaped a Yemen correctional facility.

As an example, bargaining for peace with the Taliban includes releasing high level prisoners, and all the U.S. wants in return is a pledge that these detainees will not fight again. That is simply “peace at any cost”.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

No, lets not let Sky off the hook. lol

*sigh*

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

If you believe he has answered the question, then all you have to do is provide the post where he supposedly answered it but you can't, if he answered it then we wouldn't be having this conversation would we?? But he chooses to ignore it and that is not acceptable behaviour.
I'm not goading him, I'm asking him to respond to a question and if it appears like Im goading him, then all he has to do is answer it and I'll shut up about it.

Sky posts are non productive responses and if he as answered the question, then post it but pretending he has when he clearly hasn't is just strange behaviour.
How can I make it more clearer...

Why was OBL not indicted for the 9/11 charges?

What is so challenging about that question which requires me to guide in a different vein? How clearer can it be?

Sky's answer?

View Postskyeagle409, on 18 February 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

That is moot by the fact that Osama bin Laden has already admitted to his responsibility in the 911 attacks.

There you go. It is not the answer you want, it does not go into detail, but it says the indictment is not necessary because he is dead. He did not have one at the time of his death, and all the CIA said was that they had no hard evidence, that does not amount to no evidence. It also does not mean one would never surface based on new evidence as Al Qaeda are captured and tried.

Which was pretty much my answer too, the path was too shaky, so they took the quicker route and decided on a military commission. It's not the why, I agree, but it is the how. In that way (OBL dead point moot) the question has indeed been answered. Just not how you want it phrased. The FBI website says specifically no hard evidence exists, that is how things are, and that is not up to Sky to confirm nor deny.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

It is bizzare that you feel the need to defend Skyeagle, you answered it in your last post and that is all it took, am I asking you again the same question? No, I moved on.

I find it both hilarious and strange that you challenge my behaviour when it is only a response to Skyeagole refusal to address a simple question which you answered in a single post.
Well I'm sorry but looking at Skyeagle posting history, I believe he would deliberately annoy me and many other posters. I have had run ins with him in the past and know his style which is to deny/ignore anything he is wrong about.

All he has to do is answer a simple question, which yourself answered in a single post.

I find it more bizarre that you feel such a need to defend your behaviour and leave the title wanting. I know Sky, you know Sky, what is napalming him with the same question going to result in? Either a closed thread or pages of the same question. I simply propose we accept the situation for what it is and move on. His answer is that the FBI did not indict because there is no need to indict a corpse. As a member of Al Qaeda, he was a target anyway. Why bother with legal hassels when he can simply be removed as collateral damage? Did not happen soon enough, so the seals sorted the problem.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

I always address whatever questions are put in front of me and I expect the person I debate to be honest and do the same, Skyeagle is not honest and ignores anything which challenges his position and continues on with the self deception. If you think it is acceptable behaviour to allow a poster to continuosluy ignore questions posed by the other side, then you are going to be further disappointed.

An honorable position, and I applaud your attention to detail, and in fact, I find you a polite and well spoken chap. I think it is just a lack of communication and differing views. I know Sky can be stubborn, so can I ,and look at how many times you have repeated the question, so can you. I do not blame you for your actions, I have just been there and done that, and would rather we focus on the subject at hand if that is OK, you and I have spent far too much effort on Sky when there is a more relevant item to discuss is all. I have asked him questions many times too, seeking the very answer I desire, it did not happen, and in retrospect, it was probably a bit arrogant of me to expect him to think like me. I am not disappointed, this is not unusual, I would just rather we move on, and I can stop scrolling through pages of the same question that you and I know is answered as far as Sky is concerned.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#1014    psyche101

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:40 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 19 February 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

Thank you for being honest enough to admit you are placing faith in the official story, and thereby in the US Government press releases.

Can you read? Honest question. Do you have some dodgy software reading this to you, or a relative who does not speak English?


This was the post you quoted which in no way indicates media. Good God man, dod you read another post and accidentally answer mine? You seem to be speaking to yourself here.

I Said:

The truth exists not in stories, but in engineering reports and analyses that confirm that planes hit the towers.

You know, numbers and stuff like tensile strengths, melting points and procedures , is that a bit easier to understand? You will not find those in the headlines.

I do not bother with CT until this thread, actual facts are all that really matter.

CT's come from the media. Someone is making money from this, in fact, many people are, and you are funding their hobby so they do not have to get a real job.

Now, I am finding opinions are mattering because young people are beginning to consider CT's a reason to consider Jihad

I just deleted a large angry paragraph outlining my personal reasons for this. However, they are indeed personal, and that too like that other points above, has nothing to do with media, but the state of the situation and what it is doing to my own country. I have seen personal examples of this CT altering young people. It is disgusting. I think if one could show you the full extent of your "search for the truth" that you just might have another look at yourself as a human being.

So please tell me, how on earth did you pull the media as a reference from that?

View PostBabe Ruth, on 19 February 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

Blind Faith was the name of a band several decades ago, and the driver of most of the public perception--faith that the government does not deceive them, and has their best interests at heart.

I know more about that than you could ever imagine. Clapton Baker Winwood and Grech. I played in a band here in Oz traveling the East coast for s decade a half. Seen EC live, met Baker, I happen to know what goes on backstage, bet you don't. With you being an expert in blind faith, and I do not challenge that!, you seem to be rather awful at a description there. Not really following the second part of your sentence. Or are you trying to be philosophical or some crap?

View PostBabe Ruth, on 19 February 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

If you actually listen to the tapes, or read the transcripts, you will see what I mean.  Without actually listening to the tapes or reading the transcripts, your blind faith does not qualify you as having any sort of informed opinion on the subject.  Indeed, it qualifies you has have an UNinformed opinion on the matter.

How about the actual parameters of damage known to have occurred prefer to stick with numbers as opposed to hearsay.

I sure am as uniformed as anyone in the thread who was not personally there, were you? However, you seem to feel you have an advantage over everyone else debating their view of the information available  hell, you do not even read posts as I proved above, what makes you think you are more informed BR? Honestly, that is very far from the impression you give me.

View PostBabe Ruth, on 19 February 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

More important that the script-like quality of the calls is the fact that cell phones do not work at altitude and airspeed.  That is, the cell phone calls as described in the story were physically impossible to make.  Yes, as you implied, science frequently trumps blind faith.

Do not tell me, prove it, what height were the calls made from, and at what speed, and what makes this impossible?

Script like quality? So your a vocal expert too I take it?

How did people on flight 93 call home? And how did they fool relatives into thinking they were taling to loved ones, and why are people crying over dead people who made these calls  - if it is impossible?? I am a great believer in science, when it explain's these questions from flight 93, I will be suitably impressed.

View PostBabe Ruth, on 19 February 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

In the American literature, Huck Finn observed that "faith is when you believe something you know ain't true."  That's where so many people become hypnotized by the constant repetition of a story.

Well, I guess these CT's have to get of the ground somehow don't they. That people eagerly swallow them up is a tad embarrassing quite frankly.

Huck Finn was good with lessons. Another he taught was to fool people into doing your work so you can go play. Like the people who create CT's and sell them via media outlets. But at least they do not make Fox News, what with Murdoch in there and all, so they need to rely on companies with less stringent guidelines like Vanity Fair or Pravda. Personally, I think that is pretty telling in itself. And I know the CT's "aint true".

Considering how far you have wavered from my post, might I suggest glasses. I do not mean that offensively, rather the opposite. I myself only found out the year before last I needed them, and it really was quite a shock to me. Many things became easier, and going by your first paragraph  I would prefer to think it is a mechanical problem, not deliberate ignorance of another persons post. The way you seem to be taking your own direction there indicates to me there is a major communications gap here.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#1015    psyche101

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:49 AM

View PostXetan, on 19 February 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

You're depending on somebody telling you the truth about those facts. That is faith.


What, about the Russian Meteor? If you have some dollars science can help you there too, you do not need dollars for science, but you do to collect proof, many people are now hunting for fragments, if you have the money spare, you can do so too. Isotopic ratio will confirm it's origin so all you need is a metal detetor, a plane ticket, a friendly lab and a half decent map showing you the path of the meteor. And perhaps a smattering of luck that everyone else does not beat you to all the fragments. Science gives you the tools to follow these things up yourself of one is determined enough.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#1016    psyche101

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:53 AM

View Postshrooma, on 19 February 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

_
ooh! I made the valve collets on those seals!!
(doesn't know whether to swell with pride, or deflate in shame, so reaches the consensus to stay his own happy, drunken little self....!)
thanks for the pic btw, MUCH appreciated!
:-)

Shame you are not in Oz, I could use a good contact in mechanical services.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#1017    psyche101

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:02 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 19 February 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

Religion and superstition demand faith.


Yes, and what forms the basis of all jurisprudence within Sunni Islam?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#1018    Nathan DiYorio

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:08 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 20 February 2013 - 01:49 AM, said:

What, about the Russian Meteor? If you have some dollars science can help you there too, you do not need dollars for science, but you do to collect proof, many people are now hunting for fragments, if you have the money spare, you can do so too. Isotopic ratio will confirm it's origin so all you need is a metal detetor, a plane ticket, a friendly lab and a half decent map showing you the path of the meteor. And perhaps a smattering of luck that everyone else does not beat you to all the fragments. Science gives you the tools to follow these things up yourself of one is determined enough.

Yes, but until you have done all this, you are merely taking it on faith that the event has occurred.

Edit: I think a lot of people are misconstruing the words "Faith" and "False." Faith is simply the belief in something you've been told without experiencing first hand.

Edited by Xetan, 20 February 2013 - 04:09 AM.

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#1019    skyeagle409

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:50 AM

View Postshrooma, on 19 February 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

_
ooh! I made the valve collets on those seals!!
(doesn't know whether to swell with pride, or deflate in shame, so reaches the consensus to stay his own happy, drunken little self....!)
thanks for the pic btw, MUCH appreciated!
:-)

You're welcome! :tu: I am very sure that Saddam had no intention of using that super gun for duck season, or, was it rabbit season?

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#1020    psyche101

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:06 AM

View PostNathan DiYorio, on 20 February 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

Yes, but until you have done all this, you are merely taking it on faith that the event has occurred.

Edit: I think a lot of people are misconstruing the words "Faith" and "False." Faith is simply the belief in something you've been told without experiencing first hand.

It's not faith because it is demonstrable. Money is a hurdle only i that example.

Faith is belief in something no matter what the conditions demand. If a thing is demonstrable it is not faith. I would call religion faith, but evolution demonstrable fact. A theory can confirm a thing without experiencing something, math can confirm some things without witnessing it first hand.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.





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