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Former Area 51 staff members speak out


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#31    Openminded.Ulsterman

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 07:58 PM

Can't help but laugh but you're little UFO conspiracy theories have been blown out of the water. Theirs absolutely no reason why you should believe that area 51 is housing aliens or any of that, it's just top secret military aircraft which if you have common sense you could work out that the reason it's top secret is that the united states obviously doesn't want to share these aircraft to past present or future enemies, this is the same throughout the world with these secret military bases from the UK, France, Russia, china and so on, you don't hear of conspiracy theories about their secret bases in these countries, so just accept it that theres no aliens in area 51.


#32    Agent X

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 08:36 PM

Except for one thing...

And argument without hard evidence is just an assumption.

In order for a statement to be true you need hard evidence to back it up.

Edited by Agent X, 05 July 2010 - 08:36 PM.

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#33    SlimJim22

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 08:47 PM

View PostOpenminded.Ulsterman, on 05 July 2010 - 07:58 PM, said:

Can't help but laugh but you're little UFO conspiracy theories have been blown out of the water. Theirs absolutely no reason why you should believe that area 51 is housing aliens or any of that, it's just top secret military aircraft which if you have common sense you could work out that the reason it's top secret is that the united states obviously doesn't want to share these aircraft to past present or future enemies, this is the same throughout the world with these secret military bases from the UK, France, Russia, china and so on, you don't hear of conspiracy theories about their secret bases in these countries, so just accept it that theres no aliens in area 51.

Fair enough. However, don't you think the evolution of aircraft is amazing? The Wright brothers made the breakthroughs at the turn of the 20th century and by 1947 we have the Roswell incident and from there ever increasing advances in speed and safety. Pretty cool that we have achieved so much yet I can't help thinking how useful alien help would hve been along the way even if that was from reverse engineering.

Here's a good ebook on the evolution of aircraft.

http://www.hq.nasa.g...68/contents.htm

The jury is out for me really because as you say there are covert elements at work so there is really no telling the layers of deception from reality. It remains an integral part lf modern folklore. I don't know how much ufology contributes to the global economy but I reckon it steadily grows year on year.

http://ufo.whipnet.o...dair/index.html

Try this and see how openminded you are.

http://www.alienobse...xt/mojave4.html

Please read this aswell.

http://www.bariumblues.com/jpl.htm

"I belive no thing, I follow the Law of One. I am a Man-O'-Sion under construction."

#34    flyingswan

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 08:54 PM

View PostSlimJim22, on 05 July 2010 - 08:47 PM, said:

Fair enough. However, don't you think the evolution of aircraft is amazing? The Wright brothers made the breakthroughs at the turn of the 20th century and by 1947 we have the Roswell incident and from there ever increasing advances in speed and safety. Pretty cool that we have achieved so much yet I can't help thinking how useful alien help would hve been along the way even if that was from reverse engineering.
I might point out that a lot of the improvements incorporated in modern aircraft, from stressed-skin structures to jet engines, were developed before 1947.

As an aerospace engineer, I find the suggestion that we couldn't have done the work ourselves and had to reply on aliens pretty insulting.

"Man prefers to believe what he prefers to be true" - Francis Bacon (1561-1626)
In which case it is fortunate that:
"Science is the best defense against believing what we want to" - Ian Stewart (1945- )

#35    badeskov

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 09:23 PM

View Postflyingswan, on 05 July 2010 - 08:54 PM, said:

I might point out that a lot of the improvements incorporated in modern aircraft, from stressed-skin structures to jet engines, were developed before 1947.

As an aerospace engineer, I find the suggestion that we couldn't have done the work ourselves and had to reply on aliens pretty insulting.

As well as fiber optics, computers and so on. I find the lack of faith in human ingenuity not only insulting, but also a rather disturbing sign of a pronounced intellectual laziness, an intellectual laziness that is completely uncalled for. But I guess knowing is hard, whereas believing is easy.  

Cheers,
Badeskov

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#36    SlimJim22

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 09:26 PM

View Postflyingswan, on 05 July 2010 - 08:54 PM, said:

I might point out that a lot of the improvements incorporated in modern aircraft, from stressed-skin structures to jet engines, were developed before 1947.

As an aerospace engineer, I find the suggestion that we couldn't have done the work ourselves and had to reply on aliens pretty insulting.

Sure, it is possible that we have made this progression through hard work but it is an incredibly steep curve of development don't you think? That could be due to  quickening of consciousness or just natural skills tree, sped on by world wars. Then agin one a CT would refer back to Pike's NWO letters but I don't wnt to get into tht again.

The link is perhaps stronger with the occult through Jack Parsons that aliens but the "LAM" entity is a typicl grey representation. This could all be elaborate mind control or just a form of espionage to dupe the enemies. Either way there is  lot more to this than meets the eye. If I was a betting man I'd say that inter dimensional entities have been involved since the Babalon working between Parsons and Hubbard. They may have been trading technological secrets for access to an experimentl population and a certain level of secrecy. Lucky for us all if I ever gamble I lose so we should be safe and it is as you say: no aliens, no occult just blood, sweat, tears and a lot of cash and late nights over the years.

Ever designed an alien like craft for a laugh? If so what is your preferred style?

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#37    badeskov

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 09:37 PM

View PostSlimJim22, on 05 July 2010 - 09:26 PM, said:

Sure, it is possible that we have made this progression through hard work but it is an incredibly steep curve of development don't you think? That could be due to  quickening of consciousness or just natural skills tree, sped on by world wars. Then agin one a CT would refer back to Pike's NWO letters but I don't wnt to get into tht again.

<snip>

Steep curve of development, sure. Surprising? Not really. Once something is invented, if enticing enough, an increasing number of people will be working on it and an increasing amount of funds will be dedicated to it. Frankly, I would be surprised if there had not been such a steep curve of development given the amount of resources (human and monetary) allocated to this research and development effort.

Cheers,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#38    SlimJim22

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 10:20 PM

View Postbadeskov, on 05 July 2010 - 09:37 PM, said:

Steep curve of development, sure. Surprising? Not really. Once something is invented, if enticing enough, an increasing number of people will be working on it and an increasing amount of funds will be dedicated to it. Frankly, I would be surprised if there had not been such a steep curve of development given the amount of resources (human and monetary) allocated to this research and development effort.

Cheers,
Badeskov

I can apprecite the more rational explanation but other possibilities are worth consideration. It may not be a case of reverse engineering as there is no evidence to support that but that is not to mean the likes of Parsons did not get  a little help long the way that achieved in a few years what could have other wise taken over a decade. Maybe the help ws just subtle enough to not completely arouse suspicions.  I'm just putting some thoughts out there and would not want to diminish the amzing achievements of Apollo, concorde or any other mrvels of technology.

"I belive no thing, I follow the Law of One. I am a Man-O'-Sion under construction."

#39    ShadowSot

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:25 PM

Quote

I can apprecite the more rational explanation but other possibilities are worth consideration.
Not really.

Quote

I'm just putting some thoughts out there and would not want to diminish the amzing achievements of Apollo, concorde or any other mrvels of technology.

But you are.

There has been a trend towards contemporary technology that's moved us forward, produced some spectacular failures, and some impressive leaps, that were abandoned at their time but are hailed as a incredible leap by modern scholars, like Hero's steam  engine.

It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
-Terry Pratchett

#40    Openminded.Ulsterman

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 12:59 AM

Ok that was quite alot of Reading, what I can't understand In the alien observer article, how could one person gather all this information and compile it into 1 document, this would be all classified information and undoubtadly in more than 1 document, the writer he must be depending on at least 2000 sources and that's conservative, it did make unbelievably good Reading, I'm not going to argue with most of the stuff the writer talked about because Its something I couldn't even start to look into, but there is one thing that makes me doubt the whole lot of it and that's the way he refers to The Masonic Order, now I know for certain that mostly everything said about Freemasonry is completely Untrue this I do know for fact, it's people like this that give Freemasons a bad image. anyway good story that guy would make a very good science fiction writer like Dan Brown.


#41    Openminded.Ulsterman

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 01:10 AM

I will read the rest of the links you provided and I shall give you my thoughts on them


#42    Obviousman

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 01:25 AM

View PostSlimJim22, on 05 July 2010 - 08:47 PM, said:

Fair enough. However, don't you think the evolution of aircraft is amazing? The Wright brothers made the breakthroughs at the turn of the 20th century and by 1947 we have the Roswell incident and from there ever increasing advances in speed and safety. Pretty cool that we have achieved so much yet I can't help thinking how useful alien help would hve been along the way even if that was from reverse engineering.

Here's a good ebook on the evolution of aircraft.

http://www.hq.nasa.g...68/contents.htm

The jury is out for me really because as you say there are covert elements at work so there is really no telling the layers of deception from reality. It remains an integral part lf modern folklore. I don't know how much ufology contributes to the global economy but I reckon it steadily grows year on year.

http://ufo.whipnet.o...dair/index.html

Try this and see how openminded you are.

http://www.alienobse...xt/mojave4.html

Please read this aswell.

http://www.bariumblues.com/jpl.htm

There were many theoretical leaps before 1947 that were not technologically possible until much later; we had grand ideas but they count not actually take place until metallurgy, electronics, etc, caught up. The progress of aviation is easily mapped and verified.


#43    badeskov

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 01:44 AM

View PostSlimJim22, on 05 July 2010 - 10:20 PM, said:

I can apprecite the more rational explanation but other possibilities are worth consideration.

I don't see which other explanations are worth considering, to be honest. The research and development history is very well documented and can be read in as much detail as you like. There is no room for other explanations.

Quote

It may not be a case of reverse engineering as there is no evidence to support that but that is not to mean the likes of Parsons did not get  a little help long the way that achieved in a few years what could have other wise taken over a decade. Maybe the help ws just subtle enough to not completely arouse suspicions.  I'm just putting some thoughts out there and would not want to diminish the amzing achievements of Apollo, concorde or any other mrvels of technology.

Correct, there is no evidence whatsoever indicating that. Actually, rather the opposite. The very well documented history of development shows that.

Cheers,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#44    -d00Fus-

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 02:08 AM

I remember hearing somewhere years ago that military technology - especially the US - is about 20 years ahead of what is available in the public domain. When you think about what is available at the shops now, even if that gap has closed it still means that what the "black projects" have available to them is going to be quite remarkable.
It doesn't take aliens, it takes intelligent people with resources to spare spending years on development.
When you think that most military stuff is 10 to 20 years in development before they are even revealed to the public, it is no surprise that we don't know what is "ours" and attribute it to something unworldly. UAV's, stealth technology etc were all the realm of science fiction 30-40 years ago but even then it was already being developed in secret and you can't really blame governments for wanting to keep things hidden to give them that advantage if they need it. I don't neccessarily like it, but everybody is going to do it. If something happens, they are all going to want that little edge that will give them an advantage over the opponent.
The other thing, as some previous posters have pointed out, is how many breakthroughs are not really new ideas but having the technology and resources to develop old ideas that weren't feasable. The Germans, British, Russians, Japanese and US had some incredible ideas during the second world war and even before but did not have the ability to turn those ideas into reality, though in some cases they were closer than not. With computer modelling, new materials, the billions of dollars federal governments feed into these projects and the time required to test and develop prototypes these ideas are now being turned into reality.

I get a little frightened when I sit down and think about what these people could really do if they wanted to, and no, it doesn't require alien intervention.

-d00fus-

#45    SlimJim22

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 03:43 PM

View Postbadeskov, on 06 July 2010 - 01:44 AM, said:

I don't see which other explanations are worth considering, to be honest. The research and development history is very well documented and can be read in as much detail as you like. There is no room for other explanations.

Correct, there is no evidence whatsoever indicating that. Actually, rather the opposite. The very well documented history of development shows that.

Cheers,
Badeskov

I don't think you can ever entirely rule out conspiracies just like you can't automatically accept them. There are of course degrees in scale; for example using UFO's as a cover for covert operations to aliens from the Sirrius system seeded our planet and have been returning with upgrades of technology. The first, needs no supernatural interaction just good ol' humn ingenuity and a taste for war. The latter admittedly is even too far fetched for me but there we go.

Ufology has advantages even if it is complete fantasy. Hopefully the interest in aliens and space will lead to a greater interest in physics and bioody amongst the youth. Again, as you have stated there is much theoretical engineering before the plans can be realized. If we wish to make the next leaps in technology, then far out ideas must be considered be it anti gravity, space time tunnelling and even internal eco systems, they have all started out as fantasy but could be important in the future of space travel or even air travel.

There is a mssive difference between speculating on various possibilities and believing in a UFO cult mentality. For example, you may be aware of universal mind nd Merkaba theories, even they my be going a bit far from what is evidenced. However, there is a lot to be said imo for shamanism or quietism (meditatio). Basically, the human mind works better at solving large problems through the subconscious. Scientists may have found this themselves but they may not have attached ny importance to it, though if you think about it there have been a lot of coincidences tht occur at appropriate times to move technology along. Indeed many scientific discoveries are accidental discoveries and some of the biggest appear when there is a fusion between two contrasting streams of thought.  

I think this offers a more reasonble explantion for UFO's and stuff. With my own experience with a UFO, it fitted very neatly into Crl Jungs theories on the matter and I was satisfied that it was an issue of mind more than a metallic cigar observing me from the sky. I have two examples for scientists/engineers who have made a huge contribution potentially through a combination of quietism and knowledge of eastern mysticism. I have mentioned Prsons already and I'd be keen to hear your opinions on the man. Secondly, is James Churchward the adventurer who set out to find the lost land of MU nd came to understand it as a state of mind and came up with the invention of reinforced steal that was a breakthrough for ships, trains and airplnes, not too mention submarines who must have made best use of the new technology after it received the ttention of the worlds scientists. Also, subs using nuclear fuel was a mammoth advance, did the U boats have a neuclear core like the more modern ones?

I insist that my views should not devalue the achievements of humanity, infact I'm saying it could well be the opposite. Once consciousness reches a high enough level, subconscious assistance from the universal mind could become more comomplace and allow for the quickening of technological advancement.  The dilema is whether we can resist the urge to destroy ourselves in the process of  reaching our own progressive targets.  Cheers all I was expecting you to be a lot harder on me tbh.  ;)

"I belive no thing, I follow the Law of One. I am a Man-O'-Sion under construction."




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